Questions for the sauce gurus...


 

Chris Notarpole

TVWBB Member
I was at a restaurant (Rigatonis Mesa, Az) and they have this wonderful dish that combines a white (cheese?)and red sauce (tomato) mixed with Rigatoni covered in cheese. Any idea how to make this sauce? I know it is very vague but they don't have much of a description with the dish. I have no idea what the real name of this sauce would be or else I would just look it up. Rita, Jane, Steve or else Kevin got any ideas?

Next question:
Making an alfredo sauce is generally butter, cream, and parmesan cheese. Wouldn't a light roux mixed with parmesan and cream be the same thing?

Lastly what is the ratio of cheese to cream used for cheese sauces? Is there one?

Thanks for you help!
 
It is likely a balsamella, the Italian version of the French Sauce Béchamel or 'white sauce'. It can contain a little cheese (usually Parm) but often does not. I flavor mine with onion (it gets simmered in the milk, quartered, and is removed when the milk is flavored), bay, and a little nutmeg, no cheese.

I'm not sure of the need for flour in an Alfredo unless you're thinking of skipping the cream and making a sauce with white sauce (roux plus milk) and cheese. If using heavy cream, flour is unnecessary as the cream and cheese provide thickening (the cream reduces, the cheese melts). As written, what you're proposing is more along the lines of a cheesy balsamella. Nothing wrong with that. Is there something you're wishing to avoid or use less of or...?
 
Did a search. Found the menu:

"Baked Riga Tony...Your Way"

Rigatoni pasta baked in a rich mozzarella cheese sauce, topped with garlic-spiked marinara with your choice of; Italian sausage (Mike's favorite), meatballs, oven roasted chicken, or steamed broccoli...11.50
 
Kevin,
I don't think it was a balsamella sauce. I think Steve nailed it, it was a mozzarella cheese sauce mixed with a marinara. So who has a recipe for a mozzarella cheese sauce? Think this one is done with the roux?

As for my second question, it was just more of a question. I was wondering if using the mother sauce with parmesean would it be considered an alfredo sauce? Many cooks/chefs which I have spoken to could not deny or agree with it being an alfredo sauce. It just didn't make sense to me that I could add cheddar and it would be a cheddar cheese sauce yet if I add parm it wouldn't be an alfredo sauce. I figured if anyone would know....you or the members of this board could clarify it.

In addition, in making any cheese sauce what is the ratio of cream to cheese? Is it an equal ratio or generally more cheese?

Thanks guys.
 
Yes, I think he nailed it as well. Actual Italian cuisine really does include much in the way of cheese sauces. Americanized Italian--well, all bets are off.

Likely a roux plus milk--a white sauce plus mozz.

It would not be an alfredo sauce as no flour is found in one. If no Parm or light Parm it would be a balsamella; if heavier it would be a balsamella with Parm or a 'Parm cheese sauce', not an alfredo.

The ratio of milk or cream to cheese depends on the dairy used and how thin or thick the sauce will be and how lihjtly or heavily cheesed. No set rule.
 
It dawned on me that there might be a bit of confusion on the alfredo, especially after I said cheese sauces are fairly scarce in Italian cuisine. An alfredo sauce is actually a pan sauce, it is not made ahead of time (although certainly people do and it is available--usually badly made--commercially as well, so is obviously made ahead).

Pan sauces are made a la minute. In the case of alfredo, it is made in a sauté pan next to the pot the pasta is cooking in. But the only thing happening while the pasta cooks is that the butter is melting. When the pasta is done it gets added to the pan of butter and is tossed with the cream and cheese which are added immediately after the pasta is. This type of sauce is not generally thought of as a 'cheese sauce' although one could easily argue that it is fact is.
 
Alright I will bite Kevin, what is your recipe for Alfredo sauce?

In addition, go any ideas on how to make the mozzarella cheese sauce (recipe)? Say for 4 adults, remember it is going to be cut with a red sauce.

Better yet, let me send the wife down to where you are and you can make it for her....pretty picky I must warn you!
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Well, I cook for many people--picky I can deal with if it is they-know-what-they-are-talking-about-and-appreciate-foods-and-flavors picky. If it's the I-don't-like-this and I-don't-like-that, uh-uh.
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I make alfredo (on the rare times I make it--a bit too rich for me to do often) as a pan sauce and a la minute, the way I make many Italian sauces, even many tomato ones. I don't measure but I can tell you that I start with a stick of butter at room temp and 2 half-pints of heavy, also getting toward room temp. Have a nutmeg and grater available and the white peppermill.

I use fresh homemade egg pasta (store-bought is fine but make sure it's an egg pasta). Generously salted water gets boiling in a large pot and the 1/2 the butter slowly melts in a large sauté pan (if you want slowly sweat a little garlic here; don't let it brown). While the water is coming to a boil I grate the cheese. Do not buy packaged pre-grated cheese and do not grate it with a processor. Grate with a fine hard cheese grater. It should be fluffy. You'll want about 2 cups (but leave out the grater and cheese for passing after serving).

Boil a pound of pasta and as soon as it is just about to be al dente immediately drain it and add it to the butter. Raise the heat to med and toss well. Add the 1/2 of the remaining butter and half the cheese. Toss well. Grate in just a touch of nutmeg (or add a tiny pinch if using already ground) and a turn or two of the white peppermill plus a little salt. Toss well then add 1/2 the remaining cheese. Toss again and, if necessary, allow a moment or two to pass so that the pasta absorbs more sauce if it hasn't already. Adjust salt. Toss briefly then immediately plate, topping each portion with a little of the remaining cheese. Pass the cheese and grater around in case anyone wants more.

A mozz sauce is not one I'd do myself, but you could simply make a 2-cup white sauce and then work in the cheese. Make the white sauce with the roux on the somewhat lighter side. (To add some flavor, consider, simmering the milk with a quartered small onion and a small bay leaf, covered, just till the onion is soft. Discard the onion and bay, let the milk cool slightly, then use it to build your sauce from your roux.) Season with white pepper and salt then remove from the heat after the sauce has tightened as much as yu'd like, (but leave the burner on, though very low). Stir in some grated mozz till it melts, and to give it some cheese flavor, stir in a little grated Parm as well (mozz being so bland). Start with probably 3/4-1 c mozz and 2 T Parm. Return the pan to the heat periodically, if necessary, to facilitate melting but do not let the sauce get too hot. Add a little more cheese if needed, melt in; serve immediately.

Just an aside: for a two-sauce pasta my preference would be to make a good fresh tomato (with white wine, onion, a little garlic and a minceof fresh herbs) and a good balsamella (no cheese) and transfer to separate sauté pans when the pasta goes in to boil. Remove the pasta when it is ready, save a little pasta cooking water, drain, the split into the two pans with the sauces, tossing well, allowing the sauce to absorb into the pasta well, and adding a little pasta cooking water to either or both pans, as and if needed. Then I'd plate the pastas side-by-side, top with some grated asiago and a basil sprig, and serve. Just a thought.
 

 

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