overdone ribs


 
N

Nicolas

TVWBB Member
i made a rack of spareribs in the WSM yesterday per the Harry Soo method as described on the PDF. 3 hours at 275 with no water in the pan. sprayed with apple juice every 15 minutes during the third hour prior to foiling. then i foiled in a pan with 1/2 cup of apple juice in the bottom for 1 hour. removed them from the foil, painted with some sauce and back on the grate for about 5 minutes. took them off and let sit for ~10 mins. They were 'tender' to say the least but really they were super overdone. they were literally falling off the bone. i dont want this. anyone else had this experience using this method? maybe less time in the foil in the future? any suggestions of comments?

thanks in advance
 
I would skip the foil next time, or only foil for a half hour or so...Foiling basically steams the ribs making them super tender but isn't always needed. Another thing you can do is cook for 2 hours then foil
 
this was the first time i have used it without water in the pan so i was afraid of not foiling. i thought that it would be necessary to keep it from drying out if i ran it in that dry smoker the whole time. is this not the case?
 
People have different thoughts about water in the pan adding "moisture" in your cook but I think most people on this board agree that water does not add moisture into the cook, it is only to help maintain low temperatures. I have not once used water in my pan. I use a foiled clay saucer that acts as the "water" in the pan. The only thing you did wrong was cook the ribs too long. You can foil next time, just try foiling earlier like after two hours in. Even if you skip the foil your ribs will be moist as long as they are done and you don't cook them too high of heat. The toothpick test is a great way to tell if they are done. Stick a toothpick between two bones and if it slides in super easy they are done.
 
This illustrates perfectly why cooking from a recipe based on time is problematic. Might work, might not.

Simply cook the meat just till tender while in the foil - forget the clock (you can also forget all the spraying) - and they won't be overcooked.
 
the problem is that i spent the last three months reading about cooking spare ribs between 210 and 225 for like 6 hours and keeping water in the smoker etc., and now it seems as if 1) no one uses water and 2) most people are cooking hotter than that. So now i feel like i need to relearn everything i "just" learned.

i'm going to try and pick up a clay tray today and see how this works and going forward i'll just keep a closer eye on them and perfect my ability to judge doneness. this is all much easier with brisket or butt because the digital thermometer just tells me when it's done. but i guess this is part of the skill. thanks
 
A thermometer temp will not tell you when brisket or butt is done. It will tell you the internal temp which may or may not correlate with tender. (A glance at the many hundreds of posts on this and other board where the cook cooked to some temp target and the meat was underdone or overdone shows just how 'reliable' cooking to temp can be. Ditto for cooking by time.)

Clay or water or nothing in the pan: immaterial. I use water for low/slow cooks (it's a better heat sink, imo) but it doesn't matter.

You can cook ribs at many temps. I prefer temps ~350 because I see no need to stretch out the cook. But it's easier to learn the process at lower temps.

Cooktemps, within reason, aren't that important either, despite what you've read hither and yon.

A probe is helpful during cooking barbecue - not for internal temps, but because when the meat is tender it will feel tender when you insert the probe, whether brisket, butt or ribs. For ribs, a probe inserted between the bones will go in effortlessly. At that point they are tender.

What you use in the pan, or not, doesn't matter. Cooking by time is unreliable. Cooking by temp is unreliable. learn what tender feels like - it's easy - and you can cook great stuff on any cooker, at a wide variety of temps, any time.


the problem is that i spent the last three months reading about cooking spare ribs
Click to expand...
Yes, that's the problem.
 
There is nothing wrong with using water...lots of people do. It's all about preference. Also, there is nothing wrong with cooking ribs at 225. It's all about trial and error and figuring out what works best FOR YOU. The more you practice the more you will figure out how you like to cook them. I think it's important to realize each rack of ribs is going to cook different, or any piece of meat for that matter. They are done when they are done. Could be 2 hours, could be 4 hours..could be 5 hours..etc.. Temp just gauges how quick they cook. Some people on this board cook their ribs at 325 degrees for only a few hours, so there aren't really any rules..Don't get frustrated either, you will figure it out! You aren't the only one that has over cooked ribs before, all of us have I'm sure (at least I know I have
icon_smile.gif
)
 
I think it's important to realize each rack of ribs is going to cook different, or any piece of meat for that matter.
Click to expand...
This is a pervasive barbecue myth. No, they aren't. If meat 'cooks different' it's because the cooking variables - one or more - are different. When talking commercial meats, especially pork, the meats involved are scarily similar.
 
Originally posted by K Kruger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think it's important to realize each rack of ribs is going to cook different, or any piece of meat for that matter.
Click to expand...
This is a pervasive barbecue myth. No, they aren't. If meat 'cooks different' it's because the cooking variables - one or more - are different. When talking commercial meats, especially pork, the meats involved are scarily similar. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry I didn't mean "cooks different", I meant timewise
 
Checking ribs a few hours ahead won't get you anywhere. Ribs only take a few to several hours to cook in the first place, depending on cooktemps. A probe inserted between the bones will go in with a lot of effort when the ribs are not cooked enough, then progressively less effort as they become tender, till the probe goes in without any effort - like going into soft butter. They will be tender and juicy at this point, but not fall-off-the-bone.

It is easy to avoid FOTB ribs: Don't cook by time. Simply cook till the ribs are tender while still in the foil. (Very easy to remove a foiled rack, recover the grill, open the foil, check for tenderness; recrimp the foil and return if not tender; remove if done.) Return the ribs to the cooker for several minutes, unfoiled, to firm the bark. You can sauce at this point if you prefer. Me, I cannot abide ribs sauced while still on the cooker. (An extremely thin veneer of glaze can be nice.) But if you prefer the sauced thing go ahead. The ribs should not overcook in the time it takes the sauce to set (and this can be shortened by first reducing the sauce some before application).

Never been a fan of tearing ribs. Imo, learning what tender meat feels like with a probe gets you farther. All fattier, tough meats cooked to tender feel the same when undercooked and the same when done/tender, whether pork or beef ribs, butt or lamb shoulder, brisket or chuck.

Yes, variables can be different, often are, even if it seems like everything you're doing (and even the meat you are cooking) is the same as before.

I don't always foil ribs but the cooks are a bit more consistent when I do, timewise. I foil to add a flavor layer, primarily, and it works well. When I used to cook ribs lower/slower I did the same thing as I do at higher temps: cook the ribs till nicely and richly colored, foil with a juice or juice/stock reduction, cook till tender in the foil. All done by look and feel. No clock needed - and better without.
 
Originally posted by K Kruger:
Checking ribs a few hours ahead won't get you anywhere. Ribs only take a few to several hours to cook in the first place, depending on cooktemps. A probe inserted between the bones will go in with a lot of effort when the ribs are not cooked enough, then progressively less effort as they become tender, till the probe goes in without any effort - like going into soft butter. They will be tender and juicy at this point, but not fall-off-the-bone.

It is easy to avoid FOTB ribs: Don't cook by time. Simply cook till the ribs are tender while still in the foil. (Very easy to remove a foiled rack, recover the grill, open the foil, check for tenderness; recrimp the foil and return if not tender; remove if done.) Return the ribs to the cooker for several minutes, unfoiled, to firm the bark. You can sauce at this point if you prefer. Me, I cannot abide ribs sauced while still on the cooker. (An extremely thin veneer of glaze can be nice.) But if you prefer the sauced thing go ahead. The ribs should not overcook in the time it takes the sauce to set (and this can be shortened by first reducing the sauce some before application).

Never been a fan of tearing ribs. Imo, learning what tender meat feels like with a probe gets you farther. All fattier, tough meats cooked to tender feel the same when undercooked and the same when done/tender, whether pork or beef ribs, butt or lamb shoulder, brisket or chuck.

Yes, variables can be different, often are, even if it seems like everything you're doing (and even the meat you are cooking) is the same as before.

I don't always foil ribs but the cooks are a bit more consistent when I do, timewise. I foil to add a flavor layer, primarily, and it works well. When I used to cook ribs lower/slower I did the same thing as I do at higher temps: cook the ribs till nicely and richly colored, foil with a juice or juice/stock reduction, cook till tender in the foil. All done by look and feel. No clock needed - and better without.
Click to expand...

Awesome post Kevin and I totally agree..Honestly the only reason I foil (when I do) is to keep the color of the ribs that I like, so they aren't super "charry" if that is even a word which I don't think it is
icon_smile.gif
. But when my ribs hit a certain stage , right before they start to char, that is when i foil..usually 2 hours in or so..I guess it's all up to preference. This is the great thing about BBQ'ing, making it your own!
 
I believe that temp should come into play when people are first learning, or even after that. Knowing that the pork butt is 165 will tell you that is highly unlikely it will be tender enough to pull. Get to 180-185 and maybe it will be ready to start checking. I also think one sould understand tempertures so they can better understand how things are going and what to expect.
 
Sticking a probe into the butt - or merely pusjing on the meat with your dinger will tell you the same thing. It's not that following internal temp is wrong or bad, it's that doing so places the focus in the wrong place, especially for beginning cooks, just like cooking for X amount of time does. This board and others is filled with posts from frustrated cooks who cooked to X temp or for X amount of time - several posts from today and yesterday alone, on this very board - without getting the results they wanted and expected.

I thunk cooks would be far better served by learning what meat looks like and feels like and smells like at various stages.

Ditto Tom. Though my primary reason for foiling is for flavor addition, secondarily I foil to stop additional color. Black - or very very dark brown ribs - ain't my thing.
 
Kevin- I do agree one could forego an internal temp If you know what done look like. What I meant was that time/temp can start to get you Into the ballpark. To the newbie, ribs at 3 hours/225* can look done if you don't know what you are looking for. Especially if first timers have never had a great rib. I remember my first half a doz rib cooks before I knew of all the Internet resources out there. It was like, they'be been on 3 hours, they have to be done. Nope, let's go 4. Nope. Once I did what I thought was the perfect rib, I then knew what I was looking for. Had I known then that 5-6 hours wasnt to long for low temp, I would have gotten there sooner.
 
Agree. Has anyone had a butt finish tender at 150F? Probably not. I understand that cooking isn't a linear process but I can't see the argument in using IT progression to gauge your cook. It shouldn't define it, but it allows everyone, especially the less experienced, to understand the rule of thumb parameters of what they should expect.

You may not need an oil change at 3,000 miles but you should still be thinking about it.
 
Except that it doesn't work that way, James. As we've seen dozens upon dozens of times on this board alone, temp (or time, often with rib cooks) becomes the focus. When a supposedly 'done' temp is achieved (according to whatever the OP has read in the past), the meat is removed. Sometimes the results are fine, sometimes not. Internal temp continues as the focus.

Tender barbecue has nothing to do with internal temp.

Jeff- Look is only one aspect of the issue. The key aspect is feel. Tender always feels the same way.

Many say that they use temp as a guide. Fine - as far as that goes - but it doesn't really go very far. Discussions very often still end up revolving around internal temp.

Or, in the case of ribs, again, time: "It was like, they'be been on 3 hours, they have to be done. Nope, let's go 4. Nope. Once I did what I thought was the perfect rib, I then knew what I was looking for."

Instead, had your resources focused on what the ribs should feel like when they are done, instead of the time they need to cook, you would have nailed them at least by your second try, if not your first.

THE reason so many have trouble - despite endless reading of the Net and books, including those of the 'masters' - is because the focus is placed on internal temp or time. Neither works consistently well.

Good barbecue is not some mysterious thing, and certainly not difficult, despite what may would really like you to believe.

Again, I am not saying to abandon thermometers and clocks (though they are unnecessary). But learn what done looks and feels like. As I've stated many times, learning what done looks and feels likes means: you won't screw up any cooks; you can cook on any cooker; you can cook in any conditions; you can cook at many temps; you can cook anywhere in the country.

(And, yes, I have had tender butt at 150. I did not cook it. But I've cooked brisket to tender at 140. Took two days. It is NOT about internal temp.)
 
Well put K.

I started smoking about 16 years ago on one of those rinky-dink Brinkman models we all laugh at now. I owned no meat thermometer and relied on the joke lid thermo....at the time I really knew no better.
I put the meat on and cooked and pulled it off when I thought it was done. Sometimes it was good eating, sometimes kind of rough. But over time I got pretty good at producing consistent results....that is, I learned to cook to tender.
It wasn't until I really started reading more about smoking that I started getting in trouble...being more concerned with temps and times and all that...and by trouble, I mean more frustrated. I admit I fell into the "formula" frame of mind...and over time, I learned it was largely a crock.
I've since reverted back to the way I learned it originally...and that works the best of all. Do I use thermomters and watch my temps? Sure I do. But I use them for more of a guideline than a rule.
Tender is tender, and that happens when it happens. No "formulas".
 
Have to mention that as a newb doing this, I rely a lot on what other people do/suggest.

It only comes with experience that you will be comfortable with a particular method--whether it's time, bending or poking.

Do it and you will know (the next time).
 
Kevin, Great Discussion. Guess the only thing I should have better stated was when I said I now know what to "look" for, I was refering to not only appearence but also tenderness to the touch. I actually used the toothpick method on Sunday for the first real time, and must say I had great success. It was a new cooker and different temps than I am used to and had nothing else to go by
icon_smile.gif


Will share that cook with everyone later tonight and hopefully it will help others. On my OTS
icon_smile.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

 

Back
Top