Mark_E
TVWBB Super Fan
Yessir
New Weber accessory
- Thread starter MLiebler
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Mark_E
TVWBB Super Fan
Perfect
Edit: Also found this https://www.heatbeacondesigns.com/shop-products/p/deflector-plate-and-charcoal-ring
Edit: Also found this https://www.heatbeacondesigns.com/shop-products/p/deflector-plate-and-charcoal-ring
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I jump on the new weber toy... trying it out.. it was a drunk purchase the other night. I'm looking to maximize space on the 22 kettle and use as much as it as I can. I will be cooking low and slow. I will this have this paired with my pit viper and fireboard 2. I'll post a test run. If it sucks I'm returning it lol
This is how I'm running it now.. just want to gain some more real-estate
This is how I'm running it now.. just want to gain some more real-estate
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Timothy F. Lewis
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Sorry, I can’t tolerate the guy! Babbles on about things that are useless I’m going to go have a root canal!
Mark_E
TVWBB Super Fan
Okay here is my vortex / pie pan experiment.
The initial setup. Note that I do not place each individual briquette. I've used the snake method a few times without having to do that. But I think it's important to use Kingsford briquettes and that they are all touching in at least two places. There are fresh Kingsford briquettes from an almost-new bag. See the tumbleweeds. This set up will give me two burn paths on either side of the center.
Pizza pan diameter of 19.25 inches placed on top with the lip up.
Then the grate. This is the cheapest Weber grate I have out of five.
Let's add some wood chunks. I'll put a mesquite chunk by the start of the fire followed by plum wood.
It's gettin' late. Let's start the fire.
So far so good. Now the wing sections and my long stem dial thermometer
Now we'll close it up and wait. Bottom vents wide open. Top vents wide open. I expect to have to close down the bottom vent some when it begins to approach 225. Ambient temp is 53 F.
I also added a little dial thermometer over the top air vent, a Thermoworks Smoke air probe dangling down from the top vent to the grate, and another through the probe port into the biggest wing section.
So how did it turn out?
IT WAS A DISASTER.
Probably the worst cook attempt I've ever tried going back forty years!
Here's a recap of all the things that went wrong.
1) It took WAY TOO LONG to get to temp. After an hour, it was only at 154 F with all vents open. After two hours, it was at about 215 F.
2) The wing sections did NOT cook correctly. When checked with my Thermopen One, after two hours, it showed a temp at the top of about 155, but as I pushed it in deeper and deeper, the temp kept dropping until it hit 120 F and came out the bottom of the wing! In other words, it was not cooking all around, it was cooking from the top down. Why? Obviously because there is not enough air between the grate and the pan. And of course, there was not enough hot air circulating around the cook area.
3) When I gave up and removed the grate and pan, only one of the two burn paths were lit correctly. The left one that was lit was fine, burning coals and following along the path. The other one on the right was barely smoldering. It seems the two burns competed with each other for oxygen, and after one became dominant, it starved the other one.
How to fix this?
1) Forget about the tumbleweed start up. It works fine for cooking low and slow in a SnS or with a pile of charcoal on one side and the food on another (classic indirect). But this system here, tumbleweeds are way too slow. Use a chimney or a torch to light the charcoals.
2) The burn paths need to be set up differently. I've used two and even four burn paths successfully in the past (no pie pan) but I think aligning the start path with the three vents would work much better. In other words, set up three burn paths aligned with the three bottom vents and make them thicker. OR just do one giant burn path as briefly illustrated in the Weber vid.
3) The burn paths need to be placed closer to the bowl which would provide even, smooth air flow from the bottom vent, through the lit charcoal, and around the outside edge of the pan.
4) There needs to be more space between the disk and the grate. Mine only had about a half inch. The grate was actually sitting on the pizza pan lip. Also, as it turns out, my medium sized Vortex is just under five inches high which puts the top of it right at the grate. In other words, the medium Vortex which is designed for the 22" Weber sits too high for this application. Lifting the cook grate somehow would be helpful.
5) The Weber product is only 18.25 inches vs my 19.25 inch pizza pan. It's possible that's part of the problem.
6) I believe the sharp angle of the Vortex may cause some disruption of smooth air flow. Note that the Weber cone is much closer to vertical. Charcoal needs to be placed closer to the bowl and not up against the vortex.
7) If you have a fan/blower to blow air into the bottom vents or through a bottom smoke hole, it would likely solve a lot of these problems.
8) Or just get the Weber product.
Good luck
The initial setup. Note that I do not place each individual briquette. I've used the snake method a few times without having to do that. But I think it's important to use Kingsford briquettes and that they are all touching in at least two places. There are fresh Kingsford briquettes from an almost-new bag. See the tumbleweeds. This set up will give me two burn paths on either side of the center.
Pizza pan diameter of 19.25 inches placed on top with the lip up.
Then the grate. This is the cheapest Weber grate I have out of five.
Let's add some wood chunks. I'll put a mesquite chunk by the start of the fire followed by plum wood.
It's gettin' late. Let's start the fire.
So far so good. Now the wing sections and my long stem dial thermometer
Now we'll close it up and wait. Bottom vents wide open. Top vents wide open. I expect to have to close down the bottom vent some when it begins to approach 225. Ambient temp is 53 F.
I also added a little dial thermometer over the top air vent, a Thermoworks Smoke air probe dangling down from the top vent to the grate, and another through the probe port into the biggest wing section.
So how did it turn out?
IT WAS A DISASTER.
Probably the worst cook attempt I've ever tried going back forty years!
Here's a recap of all the things that went wrong.
1) It took WAY TOO LONG to get to temp. After an hour, it was only at 154 F with all vents open. After two hours, it was at about 215 F.
2) The wing sections did NOT cook correctly. When checked with my Thermopen One, after two hours, it showed a temp at the top of about 155, but as I pushed it in deeper and deeper, the temp kept dropping until it hit 120 F and came out the bottom of the wing! In other words, it was not cooking all around, it was cooking from the top down. Why? Obviously because there is not enough air between the grate and the pan. And of course, there was not enough hot air circulating around the cook area.
3) When I gave up and removed the grate and pan, only one of the two burn paths were lit correctly. The left one that was lit was fine, burning coals and following along the path. The other one on the right was barely smoldering. It seems the two burns competed with each other for oxygen, and after one became dominant, it starved the other one.
How to fix this?
1) Forget about the tumbleweed start up. It works fine for cooking low and slow in a SnS or with a pile of charcoal on one side and the food on another (classic indirect). But this system here, tumbleweeds are way too slow. Use a chimney or a torch to light the charcoals.
2) The burn paths need to be set up differently. I've used two and even four burn paths successfully in the past (no pie pan) but I think aligning the start path with the three vents would work much better. In other words, set up three burn paths aligned with the three bottom vents and make them thicker. OR just do one giant burn path as briefly illustrated in the Weber vid.
3) The burn paths need to be placed closer to the bowl which would provide even, smooth air flow from the bottom vent, through the lit charcoal, and around the outside edge of the pan.
4) There needs to be more space between the disk and the grate. Mine only had about a half inch. The grate was actually sitting on the pizza pan lip. Also, as it turns out, my medium sized Vortex is just under five inches high which puts the top of it right at the grate. In other words, the medium Vortex which is designed for the 22" Weber sits too high for this application. Lifting the cook grate somehow would be helpful.
5) The Weber product is only 18.25 inches vs my 19.25 inch pizza pan. It's possible that's part of the problem.
6) I believe the sharp angle of the Vortex may cause some disruption of smooth air flow. Note that the Weber cone is much closer to vertical. Charcoal needs to be placed closer to the bowl and not up against the vortex.
7) If you have a fan/blower to blow air into the bottom vents or through a bottom smoke hole, it would likely solve a lot of these problems.
8) Or just get the Weber product.
Good luck
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Timothy F. Lewis
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
In all fairness, your set up does not mirror the Weber design very accurately. The center is open in the Weber design, you have effectively closed the airflow the an area where the official one does not. The airflow comes through the center which would improve the temperature coming up by tenfold. Cut the center out of the pie pan and see how that works. That would be more fair.
That’s just my observation,
That’s just my observation,
Mark_E
TVWBB Super Fan
Not with the low & slow method. The charcoal is on the outside of the vortex. A hole in the middle of the pizza pan would only pull cold air into the cooking area.
I was trying to mimic this:
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Mark_E
TVWBB Super Fan
Yes - that is definitely a better way to do snakes! I agree 100%. OTOH, when I cook my wonderful half-smokes on the SnS, I use one tumbleweed in the corner of the SnS charcoal basket and it lights up and heats up quite quickly. I have to start closing the vents and going to the smoke hole at 175 or it will over shoot 225. Thanks!
Timothy F. Lewis
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
No, the Weber video clearly shows the center is WIDE open your pie pan covers that so, you are severely restricting airflow. Your execution is not representative of the intended design look at the video YOU just posted, the center is open to the air it does not have full coverage, your test is not valid from the comparative standpoint. Yes, you have the coal outboard but, you’ve covered the center of the cone, your technique is very different from the way the Weber unit is designed. Not picking a fight but, your test doesn’t hold water (Or heat).
Mark_E
TVWBB Super Fan
No, the Weber video clearly shows the center is WIDE open your pie pan covers that so, you are severely restricting airflow. Your execution is not representative of the intended design look at the video YOU just posted, the center is open to the air it does not have full coverage, your test is not valid from the comparative standpoint. Yes, you have the coal outboard but, you’ve covered the center of the cone, your technique is very different from the way the Weber unit is designed. Not picking a fight but, your test doesn’t hold water (Or heat).
Haha, well you're right about that. My center is covered, there's is not.
But it seems apparent to me that they have an open center for their other two cooking methods - "High heat grilling" and "indirect grilling". But the open center serves no purpose for "low and slow cooking" as shown in the vid above.
Scroll down half way and see Weber's other two vids: https://www.weber.com/US/en/charcoal/charcoal-heat-controller-22/7666.html
I don't see how having an open hole of unheated fresh air moving into the cook chamber helps for low and slow. For example, the SnS Kettle folks, when cooking low and slow, suggest the halfmoon griddle pan be used on the bottom grate to block the cold air flow from coming up into the cooking area. And they are right, the halfmoon griddle does help. It's a much better cooker with the halfmoon griddle in place down there. Another example - with my drum, if I want to increase temp, the procedure is to introduce more air, more oxygen, by opening the bottom vent a bit. So I open the bottom vent a bit. What happens? The temp actually decreases. What??? Why? How? Because cold air is being introduced into the drum and the fire is not equipped to burn it. The cold air is not heated. The cooker temp drops a degree or two. After a minute or two, the coals have a chance to heat up, the temp stabilizes and begins to go back up and ascend as expected because the coals have had a chance to burn hotter with the additional oxygen.
Deliberately introducing cold air into the cook chamber doesn't make sense to me.
EricV.
TVWBB Wizard
Why not just buy one of these two, since they are less expensive then the new Weber design:
www.heatbeacondesigns.com
Weber Kettle Deflector Kit Charcoal Ring Diffuser — Heat Beacon Designs
Weber Kettle Grill Heat Deflector. Provides indirect heat on the entire surface of your BBQ grill. Perfect for low and slow cooking on a kettle charcoal grill. Made in the USA out of mild steel and stainless steel. Charcoal ring holds coals for controlled burn rate. Transform your kettle into a
www.heatbeacondesigns.com
Timothy F. Lewis
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Good call!Why not just buy one of these two, since they are less expensive then the new Weber design:
Weber Kettle Deflector Kit Charcoal Ring Diffuser — Heat Beacon Designs
Weber Kettle Grill Heat Deflector. Provides indirect heat on the entire surface of your BBQ grill. Perfect for low and slow cooking on a kettle charcoal grill. Made in the USA out of mild steel and stainless steel. Charcoal ring holds coals for controlled burn rate. Transform your kettle into a
But, if you have the Vortex already a pizza pan is pretty cheap too, just cut the center out and you’ve made a pretty good “hack” of the Weber design that is one piece instead of four.
Sorry, the center air column will NOT be cold air it’s being heated by the indirect heat from a snake heat source, why would that air be cold? You are still creating convection currents within the spherical nature of the kettle. Consider it as an exercise in fluid dynamics, hot air is flowing all around the periphery once it gets hot, it will continue, you are not introducing only cold fresh air, anymore than when one cooks in a basic indirect set up. The same principle applies here.
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EricV.
TVWBB Wizard
Agree! I was simply showing another alternative which emulates your prior statement regarding air flow. The two options I provided illustrate the air flow within the charcoal ring, similar to a WSM. No substitute for air flow regarding charcoal.
Given no food on this test... this is how I set up the new weber accessory.. had my pitviper fan running. I started with 10 lit coals and 45 min to get to 225 and legit held it for 16hrs with my probe dead center of the cone with the diffuser plate on.
I used 80 briquettes 10 of them which I lit first
im for this little over price item. I can legit use the whole cooking real-estate. For me yes u can do it cheaper... but come on its weber
. My whole snake burned perfect and even and used Cowboy briquettes
I used 80 briquettes 10 of them which I lit first
im for this little over price item. I can legit use the whole cooking real-estate. For me yes u can do it cheaper... but come on its weber
. My whole snake burned perfect and even and used Cowboy briquettes 
Bruno
TVWBB Honor Circle
I make my best purchases after a couple drinks, I think you did good.Given no food on this test... this is how I set up the new weber accessory.. had my pitviper fan running. I started with 10 lit coals and 45 min to get to 225 and legit held it for 16hrs with my probe dead center of the cone with the diffuser plate on.
I used 80 briquettes 10 of them which I lit first
im for this little over price item. I can legit use the whole cooking real-estate. For me yes u can do it cheaper... but come on its weber
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TonyUK
TVWBB Guru
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ChadRex
TVWBB Super Fan
There are Vortex baffles/deflectors.
Vortex Baffle- deflector
These are made for the vortex and allows Vortex owners to get the heat diffuser set up like the Weber Temp control.
Vortex Baffle- deflector
These are made for the vortex and allows Vortex owners to get the heat diffuser set up like the Weber Temp control.