Ideal Humidity Level Inside Smoker?


 
B

Bryan Rice

TVWBB Super Fan
Hi All,

What would you say is the ideal humidity level inside a smoker (whether a WSM or other) and how would it best be measured?

I am mostly just curious as to what your opinions were and if anyone takes into account the relative humidity of the weather outside, or the humidity produced by the meats cooking when thinking about water in the smoker?

It seems, like other aspects of the cook, there is most likely a perfect balance of humidity to produce the best bark and help minimize moisture loss from the meat.

I assume the humidity in the smoker can be consciously adjusted taking into account how much moisture-producing meat you are cooking, what wood/charcoal mix you are using, and the humidity levels outside - what do you have to say on the matter?

[I should be working instead of day dreaming about bbq....but who can help it?]
 
Hey Bryan!!

Not sure about the humidity within the smoker, but I'd guess there's a decent amount going on with all the wood burning and the fat rendering off while the meat cooks.

I use a piedmont pan when I'm smoking (if you haven't made one yet, DO IT NOW!!!), so the water in the water pan isn't included in my equation. However, I don't think that humidity plays as much of a role in moist food as just knowing when the food is done. I was one of the believers that the water-filled pan added moistness to the meat and made it more tender, but I've had the same or better results in a "dry" cooking environment.

I don't know if this helps or even answers your questions, but it is a good topic to consider, and I hope others chime in. But, as far as I know, it's just a matter of when the fat in the meat really starts to break down and moisten the meat that counts.

---
 
One of the reasons for using water in the water pan over sand is that it imparts moisture to the air, but when is it "enough" "not enough" or "too much" is a good question.

Here's something about combi-cookers/steamers:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:kV3y920KSKkJ:www.h...&ct=clnk&cd=15&gl=us

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Humidity control
A third resulting difference among combi-steamers has to do with the ability of the
operator to control the amount of moisture in the cooking cabinet at any given time. With
the technology described above, steam can be added at any time and in varying amounts.
But how does anyone know how much is enough or how much is too much? Precise
control of humidity in the cooking environment depends on two additional functions: the
ability to release or vent excess steam when required, and the ability to measure the
relative humidity in real time. A few manufacturers have developed the digital control
technology necessary for an operator to select a humidity level and have the machine
measure conditions in the cabinet and add or remove moisture automatically as needed.
Combis with true humidity control have increased flexibility and productivity by an order
of magnitude. Delicate baking, low-temperature steaming, overnight roasting, high
temperature grilling, and perfect retherming are just a few examples of what can be done
in a single oven with this kind of control over the cooking process. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Another clue:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Humidity comes from two sources: the food itself during initial cooking, and the
addition of steam from the steam generating mechanism. Operators need to understand
clearly whether a 50% humidity setting on their combi means that steam will be
introduced during half of the duration of the cooking cycle, or whether there will actually
be 50% humidity at all times in the cabinet. Once the food begins cooking, the two are
likely to be very different. A full load of whole chickens, for example, will cook off a
great deal of moisture. Without some means of measuring and removing excess humidity,
humidity levels in the cabinet can easily climb to 80 or 90%. Reducing the humidity
selection manually mid-cycle or turning the moist heat mode on or off during cooking
amounts to guesswork. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, at least without the ability to measure and conduct testing within the WSM, there is no *precise* way to determine the impact of humidity on something like bark.
 
Jimbo - This is EXACTLY the kind of thing I was thinking about - and as you pointed out probably almost impossible to determine without a laboratory.

It does seem that a lot of people mostly see the water in the pan as a heat stabilizer, but I think it is more than that - and how much water you use, at what temperature you use it, and when, during the cook, you use it could really affect many aspects of the resulting product.

I stopped using water for a period when I first started using BBQ Gurus, but I have returned to using it because I get better results that way. But I am not exactly sure why.

What I have been playing with is adding a hotel pan full of water to my Caldera TallBoy. That is what got me thinking about what I was trying to accomplish by adding water in the first place and if I should be adjusting it to the amount of meat I was cooking and the humidity outside.

I find this fascinating...
 
Cooking in a combi is different because, in a WSM, there isn't quite the airflow and one is limited to ambient and limited generated humidity (from the waterpan and food), but one sees some similarities.

I don't think a lab is necessary. I think anecdotal cook- and results-monitoring would be sufficient enough to tell you whether there is an optimal moisture point, or a range. All you'd need is a remote hygrometer with a probe that could take the cooker's heat. Staging similar cooks (same foods, same quantities, same cook temps), but altering the other variables--water in pan, sand in pan, regular Guru, water with Guru--and monitoring humidity and end results, might very give you the info you seek.

Moist air transfers heat more efficiently than dry air.

I also notice a difference between Guru and waterpan cooks.
 
For what it is worth, probably not much, I prefer a dry environment.

From my understanding of bbq and its origins, I believe dry environments ruled. That does not mean its best however.

What about traditional baking? Do we see cooks of chefs putting pans of water in the oven routinely?
Nope. When do we see liquids added to cooked meats? Isn't it when we want to braise? (I forgot, we do use liquids when we rest...)

As a seat of the pants cook, no training except what the experts have taught me here, I think bbq is an extension of roasting. To me roasting is dry heat. I prefer a dry environment. As someone says , my 2 cents.

A final thought. The explanation for waterpans usually revolves around temperature control. My guess is the marketing dept. claims it keeps the meat moist.
 
i read that commercial setups (meaning cooking alot of shoulders at once in a vessel) so much of this meat mass helps create a lot more 'natural' humidity that you get a end product that you dont get in a personal, 1-2 shoulder experience... like a power in numbers kind of thing.
 
Hmm. Only relatively speaking -- but that doesn't go very far. Yes, more meat would equal more humidity as more evaporation would be occurring, but it is not likely that this would mean a significant rise in ambient humidity realtive to the WSM with, say, 4 butts in it. A small cooker with 4 butts wouldn't necessarily be different from a large cooker with 40 because the cooker is still a cooker and its size is relative to what it is designed to hold. If the large cooker is designed for airflow in a way that is similar to the WSM's (many are), then humidity levels would probably not be different in any significant way.

What one does not often read about is the number of commercial outfits that don't really low/slow at all. If the area (locality, county, state) uses the Food Code as the basis for their food service laws, it is either not legal or is strongly frowned upon to cook larger hunks of meat (butts, hams, etc.) in a low/slow environment -- unless humidity of a significant level is achieved or added. This is because bacteria kill is much more effective in a very humid environment. In areas that follow these guidelines, large pieces of meat can only be cooked at higher temps if adequate humidity is not present. I have wandered behind numerous establishments over the years and have often found cookers cooking at 325. (This certainly could be for other reasons alone or as well, e.g., simply wanting to cook the meat in a shorter time.) In areas that adhere to the Food Code, to cook larger hunks of meat at low temps means to use a steam injection oven, or an oven where humidity can be raised, maintained and monitored throughout the cook.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Contact Us | The Virtual Weber Bullet | Privacy Statement | Terms of Service
© 1997-2009 Chris A. Allingham LLC </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kevin please clarify.

"Bacteria kill is much more effective in a very humid environment"

"Meat can only be cooked at higher temps if higher humidity is not present"

I am confused. My seat of the pants science lead me to believe that "warm and moist" was where bugs generally flourished. Soooo I assumed dry heat to be better at killing bugs than moist. If I understand you correctly, moist heat kills better.

edit: I now remember that autoclaves used to sterilize instruments use moist heat. So you must be correct again!

One other aspect relating to humidity not yet mentioned is "Loss". I had another assumption, that is, I assumed that I had 55-60% yield with butts. Not so. With a Piedmont Pan-no water and a 250-270* cook of 12-15 hours, I yield 45-46%. Quite a difference than my assumptions. With that in mind, the quality of the product must be affected because some do get over 50% yield. At some point that moisture loss makes a difference. I do not know which is a better product.
Any ideas ladies and gentlemen?
 
Clarify your question: What do you mean "better product"?

Kill is relative to temps. When discussing bacteria kill and typical temp used for cooking (especially baking, roasting, smoking -- methods where the heat is indirect) moist air helps because it transfers heat much more efficiently than dry air. Kill is more effective because the heat transfer is. It is quicker too.

Note that we are taking about cooking temps, not merely 'warm' temps where, true, bacteria can certainly grow and flourish, hence the key growth area of the Danger Zone, about 75-105?.
 
By "better product" I mean which BBQ is better-a lower moisture one (46% yield) or a more internal moisture BBQ (50-60% yield)?

A small point perhaps but for contestants and for folks selling meat it is a real consideration. If you sell by the pound...more moisture may be better. For others, there may be a difference in texture.

I do not know the answer-just posing a question that I think relates to the original question of humidity in the cooking environment.

In dry cooking conditions-Piedmont Pan, I yield only 46% cooked pork. From what I gather some people yield more like 55% cooked pork by weight. I assume my BBQ must be drier.

Should we be cooking our pork butt to an ideal % of original weight? And how is that affected by the humidity during cook?

So in that scenario, we could cook on a digital scale....
 
I thought that's what you meant but wasn't sure. Thanks for clarifying.

Imo, much of this is subjective. Though a 46% yield is in fact different from a 55% yield whether one is better (n terms of flavor) is subjective, from my view.

From a commercial perspective the yield loss can be finessed in a couple ways: First, a finishing sauce can be added. I do this routinely with a flavored thin vinegar sauce because it better equalizes flavor and moisture throughout the mix. I''m not concerned about yield, but this does restore some weight.

Second, many places don't 'pull' their pork at all, they chop it, usually by machine. The yield suffers less if the meat is cooked to the the tender/choppable stage because it comes sooner than the tender/pullable stage -- also a savings in time and fuel use, a likely consideration for commercial establishments.
 
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