Hotter and Quicker


 
S

Steve Petrone

TVWBB Diamond Member
Morning all.
Myron Mixon cooked a brisket in 5 hours.
A local Q joint cooks butts no more than 12 hours. I have experienced much better results with 300* rib cooks (either cut) in about 3 to 4 hours. Hotter and Quicker.

What has been your experience?

I am not talking about butts in foil either-just hotter and quicker. There must be an ideal time and temp for each meat and a RANGE.
 
Of course that depends on weight.

I cook most stuff at ~250 grate. If I get a drop to the mid 230s I open a vent or two slightly; rises to the upper 260s and I'll close one a bit. That temp works for me because I am often unable to monitor temps (or even be near the Mav or Nu receiver) for long stretches of the cook (I am often on another side of the ranch or off it entirely). At ~250 grate the drops or rises in temp are not worrisome if I'm not around to deal with it. Even a 50 degree rise, though unlikely, is not a big deal.

If I am nearby for the end of the cook (butts/briskets) I'll often bump the temp up substantially. Though I have done ribs at a high temp for the whole cook I prefer the 250 grate temp. This allows me a chunk of time for the ribs to get deeply colored before foiling. At a much higher temp I have to be available sooner and that usually doesn't work for me (ranch projects are plentiful and ongoing!).
 
I've cooked brisket flats in 5 hours, no problem. Last one was about 7 pounds... temps were around 245 at grate. got up to 165 (where I foiled) pretty quickly - around 3.5 hours. Foiled, and let the temps come up to 275+. Reached 190 in just about an hour. Rested for 1.5 hours. Turned out great with a seriously awesome smoke ring.

Jim Minion mentioned recently that he cooks flats at 300+.

I've done butts at 275 and been pretty happy with them. Butts are great because if I want a lot of sleep... I do them at 230. I've had temp spikes take go to 300 with butts, but never cooked the whole time at that temp.
 
The book "LegendsofTexas BBQ" has some real eye openers. One of the true legends is a meat market that cooked shoulder clods at 600f. Many teams cook chicken hot and more than a few grill pork butts, both with great success. Country Pork ribs are nothing more than a bone in butt run through a band saw.

Then only way I know to get those results with beef is with a really long rest in cooler as you can get the meat hot fast but the beef connective tissue takes time to break down. But hot and hold does give a very juicy piece of Beef.
 
O.K so which is it ???? Low and Slow makes good Q or High and Fast ????? I just put a nice 6 lb USDA Choice flat on the smoker and set the Guru to 225°, Just like I always do. Seems to work fine. Is this fast and high thing just a time saver? resulting in the same end product??

Adam, Could you point me to the thread where Mr. Minion talks about cookin' flats @ 300°

Thanks

Al
 
Al--

Actually it's 325. The post is here.

For me it's timing; I prefer the numbers I get when I cook at ~250 grate. But that's hardly hot and fast.

Konrad, I've cooked clods and other large cuts at very high temps (not in a WSM though--in open or semi-closed pits). Flipping them fairly frequently works good and rotates the part of the roast nearest the heat to a point farthest away (and vice versa); since the cuts are large they still take quite a while to cook. Butt is still done this way in many Carolina joints.

Legends is a great read and there's much interesting info in it. Some of the places highlighted in the book (that are still around)are really terrific, some good, some not so good. One of the legendary Mikeska brothers, e.g., produces some of the worst Q I've ever had.
 
Kevin,

I guess the high and fast thing might work for ribs and chicken, but I'm staying with 225°-235°. No sense messin'around with success.

Al
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Al Silverman:
Kevin,

I guess the high and fast thing might work for ribs and chicken, but I'm staying with 225°-235°. No sense messin'around with success.

Al </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I think you hit on it... if 225 is working for you, then no need to change. Whatever people find to give them success is what they should stick with.

some folks have mentioned doing butts on higher temps, just flipping lots... sounds to me like that would be easier in the rotisserie. Anyone done butts in a rotisserie?
 
Steve,
For the 4th of July we did and 11 lb. full cap Brisket on the kettle. It was rubbed and set for 2 days. I smoked it for a bit over 6 hours. After smoking it, I sliced it and wrapped it in foil and put it in the fridge overnight. In the AM I applied some of the rub and sauce and put it in the oven at 350 for about and hour and 15 min.. When it was served-WOW! The best.
 
I can remember when I started with the wsm just a couple of years ago freaking out when I cooked a butt and the temp climbed to 250! 220-235 was THE target. A friend cooks butts in an open pit for 12 hours. You and I know he is getting higher temps. After reading these resonses, my guess is we can cook at up to 300, maybe 325. IF you want to. You probably would have to eliminate sugar from the rub. My friend uses only salt and pepper. I would also assume that you would sacrifice some smoke flavor by speeding up the process. Butts are probably the most forgiving meat and will do well if cooked 12-24 hours given that you reach a reasonable internal temp and fork tender.

On ribs, I have dried them out when cooking them at 225 for 5 or 6 hours. So I have retreated to Raichlen's method in How To Grill and cook at 300-325 for 3.5 t0 4 hours with about 45 min in foil included. With the large surface area, ribs do not seem to lose anything by cooking quicker. My best results seem to come from the top rack if I don't rotate.

Briskets-I'm still learning these too. My early ones were cooked at 230 and foiled at 165. I loved em but truthfully they were more like pot roast. I started using foil at higher temps and then no foil. The flavor seems best with no foil but lacks a little of the moisture of foiled cooks. I have not tried to cook a brisket in 5 hours as Myron Mixon has. If Jim Minion cooks a brisket at 325...then it can be done. I would do anything to get the extra fat in a point rendered. Separating the point and leaving it on for a few hours seems to help some but, I still find myself using the point in soup or chili... Cooking hotter and quicker may be ok for a flat but I gotta think the point needs more time to render.

M D cooking one in 6 hours would be quicker than any I've cooked. Since you were on a kettle were you cooking at higher temps?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:

For me it's timing; I prefer the numbers I get when I cook at ~250 grate. But that's hardly hot and fast.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kevin - If that is ~250 at the grate then it would be about 260-265 at the lid using a candy therm, right?
 
Steve - to clarify, I believe Jim Minion mentioned that he has cooked flats at 325 to finish them more quickly. I don't think I've ever seen him say he cooks whole packers at that temp. Like you said, I really can't see the point getting where you want it without lower and slower.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bblake:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:

For me it's timing; I prefer the numbers I get when I cook at ~250 grate. But that's hardly hot and fast.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kevin - If that is ~250 at the grate then it would be about 260-265 at the lid using a candy therm, right? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correct.
 
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