High Heat method, the science?


 

MKEvenson

TVWBB Wizard
Well I think that Kevin has written a description of why HH method works well. I have searched but can't remember where it is. I know the method but am looking for the science, ie the reason it works. I am preparing a discussion with a BBQ techer who has put forth the science for Low and Slow, I need to compare notes.

Thanks for your help.

Mark
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Well I think that Kevin has written a description of why HH method works well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think a major factor is what are you cooking? HH works well for many meats. At some point, because this is BBQ, you get into personal preferences and the discussion never ends. Personally I prefer a low and slow approach to butts. I find that pork fat renders down differently than other fats and the slow approach yields a better product. HH is fine for me for briskets; again much of it due to the fat and with the combination of foiling the meat becomes tender relatively quick. Chicken and other poultry? I never go low and slow but it can work. It's hard to paint BBQ with a broad brush.

Paul
 
Both methods work well. I mostly cook HH but still do low & slow when i feel like drinking beer 24pk or more. Imho low & slow give's u the best results overall flavor,bark etc. The only difference is that if u go the HH route u have to foil no getting around it, so u will sacrifice bark and some flavor, but will save on time. The only meat that i do not foil cooking HH is ribs if 275-300 considered HH. I spritz the ribs to control the bark. But like i said both work well, it's just a matter of how u feel like cooking that day, no rite or wrong method.
 
Most of the science behind HH is identical to that behind low & slow except it is happening at a faster rate.

There are some differences however,

High heat:

* It is easier to overcook (especially thinner parts of the meat)
* It is easier to overshoot temps and miss the sweet spot of ideal collagen breakdown, fat rendering and juice losses
* If wrapping, it can result in a steamed/braised/hammy texture and flavour
* Less bark
* Less firm bark (unless put back on at the end after unfoiling if foiling)
* Less smoke flavour (given that smoke is used the whole cook)
* Potentially smaller smoke ring
* Outsides done more than insides. As when grilling or roasting a steak at a high temperature (assuming aiming for rare/med-rare), you get a larger temperature gradient with more overdone or well-done meat on the outer section with the ideal temperature in the mniddle.
* More chance of the rub burning and causing off, bitter flavours
* In high heat cooks, collagen -> gelatin conversion is mainly heat as opposed to a combination of enzymatic (collagenase) activity AND conversion via heat.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DavidT.:
Most of the science behind HH is identical to that behind low & slow except it is happening at a faster rate.

There are some differences however,

High heat:

* It is easier to overcook (especially thinner parts of the meat)
* It is easier to overshoot temps and miss the sweet spot of ideal collagen breakdown, fat rendering and juice losses
* If wrapping, it can result in a steamed/braised/hammy texture and flavour
* Less bark
* Less firm bark (unless put back on at the end after unfoiling if foiling)
* Less smoke flavour (given that smoke is used the whole cook)
* Potentially smaller smoke ring
* Outsides done more than insides. As when grilling or roasting a steak at a high temperature (assuming aiming for rare/med-rare), you get a larger temperature gradient with more overdone or well-done meat on the outer section with the ideal temperature in the mniddle.
* More chance of the rub burning and causing off, bitter flavours
* In high heat cooks, collagen -> gelatin conversion is mainly heat as opposed to a combination of enzymatic (collagenase) activity AND conversion via heat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dave, don't agree with a lot of the differences you have listed. I've been doing high heat brisket for years. It's a real simple process. I haven't "overcooked" the meat.When the internal reaches 160-170 at the thickest part of the flat. You foil. If you are taking internal temps ,how can the outsides be done before the inside? If your burning the rub then you need to back off on the sugar in it. I suppose you can steam the brisket to death when foiling. I always check the meat prior to foiling to see how done it is. If it's like jello I let it sit for a little bit on the counter to let the heat dissipate. Then foil and rest. I get bark but as you state it's not as firm as doing low and slow. If you are going to do HH DON'T go by temp after foiling. It's the feel of the meat. Also, if you don't foil you'll miss all those nice juices that can be used for so many other applications. Dave, I apologize if I seem to be ranting on you but HH has it's advantages and disadvantages. Some of what you say is true like the smaller ring and maybe less flavor but it is truly a great process.
 
Paul, I've done both methods with pretty satisfactory results, but all of David T's "differences" are just that, and it doesn't mean you can't get a good product either way. I rather see each "difference" as a valid consideration that one might take into account, at least in my own experience, and each method has it's upside and downside, IMHO.
 
Some of David's points are pertinent regarding HH cooks where no foil is used (easier to overcook; easier to overshoot temps; outsides done more than insides; more chance of the rub burning), and some more pertinent to cooks where foil is employed (less bark; less firm bark; less smoke flavor; less smokering; steamed/braised texture and flavor - though 'hammy', imo, is due to other factors and has nothing to do with HH or foil).

Bark texture is pretty easy to re-establish if lost during foiling. I don't bother with this for brisket, as the rubs I usually use end up sufficiently bark-y for me, but I do with ribs (I foil ribs sometimes when adding a flavor layer). Imo, (commercial) ribs at HH do not require foiling. They have neither the mass nor the fat-to-lean ratio to make it a must. Ribs I cook at 325-375. Cooking ribs at HH without foil means a rather narrow done window and thus more attention is required.

Smokering development is not difficult to achieve with HH cooks. Cold meat and a moderately slow ramp-up to cooktemps works well.

Though I don't care to cook butts at HH, because I do not like foiling them, I do cook them sometimes at higher heat - 275-300.

Per the OP, HH cooking, using foil, works well because cooking is much more efficient after foiling occurs. Unfoiled at the beginning is used so the meat can take on smoke, color, develop a smokering, develop rub flavors and texture. Cold meat placed into a cold cooker with a slower ramp-up also allows for enzymatic tenderizing until the enzymes cease activity as the meat gets warmer.

After foiling, the much more moist environment created increases heat transfer exponentially. Though not technically braising at the outset of foiling (unless liquid is added to the foil), a braising environment is created as moisture/drippings exude from the meat. This environment can mean much more even cooking of the meat. Rather than an oft-seen result of the thin end of a low/slowed packer being somewhat-to-quite overcooked by the time the bulk of the flat portion is tender, cooking in foil minimizes this because of the more efficient transfer of heat, and because the juices are contained. One can overcook anything in foil. If braising and taken to long past tender, at first, a pot-roast-y texture/flavor is often the result; further past that point, the meat eventually loses its ability to hold moisture and the result is essentially dry-meat-in-liquid. In most cases, however, the done window is sufficiently wide enough to avoid this.
 
That's a great case for foiling, Kevin, and great pointers for overcoming percieved shortcomings to the method.

What do you think about the idea of ramping DOWN the temp (from 350 down to 275 or even 250, for example) while foiling if you've got a few other irons in the fire, ie cooking a few at a time or other distractions, assuming you have the time, of course? I guess one downside is the variable that you introduce at that point, as a timeframe component. Other than that though, is there any downside to this to make the doneness windows wider and help in preventing overcooking?

Also, sorry if you've hit this recently: If you remove the foil to firm up the bark, do you wait until the brisket is tender enough to be considered "done", or do you unfoil a little before that? I'd think that would be too much guesswork for myself, but just thought I'd ask. Of course, any rub suggestions for not needing this step would be greatly appreciated!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave Russell:
Paul, I've done both methods with pretty satisfactory results, but all of David T's "differences" are just that, and it doesn't mean you can't get a good product either way. I rather see each "difference" as a valid consideration that one might take into account, at least in my own experience, and each method has it's upside and downside, IMHO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dave, you're absolutely right!!!!
 
Dave-- Other than the one downside you mention, no, there isn't an issue with ramping down.

Try to catch the brisket just before or right at the beginning of the window.

Minimizing sugar (if any is used, used just enough to add counterpoint to bitter/sour elements) and using at least some coarser rub ingredients helps immensely with bark finish.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
Dave-- Other than the one downside you mention, no, there isn't an issue with ramping down.

Try to catch the brisket just before or right at the beginning of the window.

Minimizing sugar (if any is used, used just enough to add counterpoint to bitter/sour elements) and using at least some coarser rub ingredients helps immensely with bark finish. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kevin, I can do that by just not grinding all my different peppers down as fine, and I need to find some granulated onion, too. I already use gran. garlic.

I noticed that Sam's went up on their price of choice packers recently, so my next one is going to be a select one from Walmart that I'll do faster with foil. Thanks a bunch, Kevin!
 

 

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