6 TOUGH Briskets! Need Help!


 
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norman beal

New member
Read about everything on cooking brisket but am at a loss to figure out why I can't get one tender.

Using WSM, tried all smoker temps from steady 212 to over 250. Tried rubs, marinades. Cooked from 175 to 200 internal ending temp. Meat temp gradually increases to 160-175, then stays steady for a long time, then rises to whatever temp I decide to finish at.

Smoker is started, brought to about 200, then water and meat added, covered, brought to desired cooking temp and usually just let sit till done. I've tried cooking to over 200 meat temp, but dry and still tough!

I've tried flats and whole briskets. Nothing comes out tender. Only reason I continue is the flavor is excellent, but now I'm getting older and my teeth aren't what they used to be!

Ideas??
 
Get rid of the water, and do a search on high temp brisket. Give that method a try.

What type of brisket are you using? Is it graded? Or an unlabeled cryovac?
 
The flat today was a grocery store no-grade butcher wrapped (no cryovac). Others were probably also ungraded (one was from Sams Club). Do you think I could have gotten 6 tough ungraded briskets? Neighbor bought his from the same grocery and it was delicious and tender. He started his on a bbq grill, then finished in the oven in a covered pan with marinade.
 
Dry but dense and chewy/tough = undercooked; dry but stringy-ish/tough = overcooked. My guess is you are overcooking.

Try a high heat approach. (If you try low/slow again, load the meat when you add the lit and assemble the cooker. Consider foiling at 165--definitely if you are cooking flats. Cook till tender, not to some internal temp.)

Here and here are two high heat examples. Note that foil is used and that internal temp is not.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by norman beal:
]Do you think I could have gotten 6 tough ungraded briskets? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>No. (See above.)<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> then finished in the oven in a covered pan with marinade. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>They reached and maintained tenderness because they were braised.

(Welcome to the board, btw!)
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by norman beal:
I've tried flats and whole briskets. Nothing comes out tender. Only reason I continue is the flavor is excellent, but now I'm getting older and my teeth aren't what they used to be!

Ideas?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, get a new set of teeth. (sorry)
I can only speak about flats as I don't do packers. I get mine at BJ's and do not do any trimming. I use the high heat method(325-350*) with the MM start, add my lit, put the meat on fat side down right away and put the lid on and leave it on throughout, until I foil. I foil at about 160-165*. I find it takes about an hour per lb from start to finish so I start to check for tender with a probe or fork about 45 minutes or so before my estimated finishing time. When the probe goes in with little or no resistance I pull off the meat. Have had good luck this way.
 
OK you guys have convinced me to try the High Heat method. I like the idea of not having to get up in the dark anyway so things will be done by supper. I guess I can sell my water pan on ebay but then will just have a common smoker without the magic moisturizer!

Will rubs/pastes make any difference in tenderness? I suspect not, but the foil may help and hold in juices. How important is the rest period? Usually I'm too hungry to wait.
 
Keep the pan. Use it empty. Foil it for easier clean-up.

Rubs and pastes are about flavor, not tenderness.

Meats must be rested after cooking. A typical brisket (taken to tender) needs 20-30 min, depending on thickness.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by norman beal:
I guess I can sell my water pan on ebay but then will just have a common smoker without the magic moisturizer!

Will rubs/pastes make any difference in tenderness? I suspect not, but the foil may help and hold in juices. How important is the rest period? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You need the water pan in there, just use without water and foil lined as Kevin said. The water is used as a heat sink and adds NO moisture to the meat what so ever Period.
Rubs and pastes do not add tenderness just flavor. And yes the rest is important to re-disstribute moisture into the brisket. I know Kevin doesn't rest as long as most of us do here, IIRC he does a 30-45 min rest. I like to rest for an hr or 2. High heat briskets all the time for me. HTH and welcome.
 
Welcome Norman Vincent Beal! Patience young Jedi-
You must let the brisket rest. My last one rested 4 hours and it was the best one yet. Listen to the masters like K. Kruger, Brian S and Craig Castille and others on this board. They know their stuff. When I follow their advice, my bbq works out great!!
 
Thanks for the thread Kevin. Lots of info there to digest, but looks like it should cover most the bases. I don't think I have ever rested my meat mmore than 10 minutes even though I have seen that mentioned many times. That may have had an adverse effect on tenderness as well.

Great info on this site! All this time I thought the water pan was to induce moisture into the meat! But I can also appreciate the heat sink theory. Can't wait to experiment some more!
 
I haven't had a bad brisket yet on the WSM. I don't use water, I use a 14" clay saucer from Lowes. I just wrap the water pan and saucer in foil before the cook.

I usually fill the ring with kingsford with 4 or 5 small chunks of hickory and cherry. Use the minion method, 10-12 hot coals on top. Put the unit together, vents wide open until the dome reaches around 200. Then I start to close them down until my temp is 250 at the lid.

I usually only rub the brisket a few hours before the cook. Then I take the brisket out of the refrigerator about and hour before cooking to bring it up in temp a little bit.

On the cooker it goes for over night. Usually by the time I wake up the temp is about 10-20 degrees lower so i kick the vents open a bit to bring it back up. Usually the temps in the brisket when I awake are around 160ish, that's after around 7-8 hours or so. All cuts are going to be different. I then foil when it hits 170 degrees until 190. Pull it off and rest for at least an hour. Here's a link to my last weekend cook....

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24193

I get my flats at Sam's and are usually between 5-7 pounds.
 
norman-- Definitely rest. Even steaks need to be rested 5-7 min. Juices need time to redistribute.

Chad-- Consider foiling sooner: ~165 if the flat is well-fatted, ~160 if overtrimmed. That should help minimimize drier ends.
 
Definitely try high heat.

The time window for judging tender may be shorter than low and slow, but you won't miss judging WHEN the brisket is tender.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
norman-- Definitely rest. Even steaks need to be rested 5-7 min. Juices need time to redistribute.

Chad-- Consider foiling sooner: ~165 if the flat is well-fatted, ~160 if overtrimmed. That should help minimimize drier ends. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll have to try that then. To me it didn't really matter if the ends were a little drier, I like a chopped brisket anyhow and the juices I made the sauce with really moistened it back up. It could have helped if I sliced it the right way too.
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It could have helped if I sliced it the right way too.
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Definitely! cutting with instead of across the grain will give you some chewy brisket
 
Do any of you guys do anything with the drippings from the meat that fall in the pan? I've always filled the pan with water, but wondered if there were ways to save the drippings for gravey or whatever.
 
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