4.5lb pork shoulder in right now!


 
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Dennis Fraley

TVWBB Super Fan
I know it's not much. But's it good for the old Weber Kettle.
Well I put it on around 8:30pm and it was going good. The grill temp was at 207f. Well then I realized that I had forgot to put on the Pan full of sand above the coals on the cooking grate. So I put it on and the temp droped to 179 grate temp. Well I waited and it only went up to 181f after a decent amount of time and hung there. So I had to open up all the bottom vents to get the fire burning hotter. Now its climbing its at 196f.

I really think that shows how much of an effect the pan full of sand really has!

Well after typing this it's already at 210f. Better go close those vents it's climbing fast now!

Later
 
Well the low temp alarm for the grill temp woke me up at 8:00am this morning. I just opened some of the vents a bit to keep the temp from dropping anymore. The meat temp is at 180f right now. So it should be just about done /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Just looked at the grill and grouped the coals back together cause the temp was still dropping. There's really no bark on the meat. There's no dark charcaol looking layer around the shoulder? Last time I did a pork shoulder it had a really nice bark. But that one was a pound less then this one. But I don't see why that would make a difference.
Maybe I should have put some sort of slather on there.
 
Hi Dennis, I have a 11pound brisket on right now. I put it on at 8:30 last night and have a really nice bark going. Did you put a rub on the butt? I always use a rub and sometimes mustard before the rub. Some of the butts have a bark and some don't, not sure why but one thing is for sure. Bark or no bark they are good eating!

Chach
 
Yes I did put a rub on it. Last night before I put it on. Oh well next time I think I'll put some sort of slather on it before the rub. I guess as long as it still tastes good and is tender and moist. What difference does it make right.

One thing though. The grill temp dropped as low as 204f so I stirred the coals and opened up the grates to bring the temp back up.Since then thought the meat temp has dropped from 180 to 177f and is hanging there. Now the grill temp at 266f (went and closed the vents again) and the meat is not rising. I really hope it starts to rise soon. I gotta leave around 12:00pm and its almost 9:00am now.
 
Dennis....

Take the temp probe out of the meat and start sticking it in different spots. What you are experiencing happens quite often. I am no longer a fan of keeping the temp probe stuck in the meat for the entire cook. I use it only at the very end and then never leave it in except to check the temp.

There are 7 large muscles that run thru these butts and they all seem to cook at different rates.

So, just start taking a sampling from various areas.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kevin Taylor:
[qb] Dennis....

Take the temp probe out of the meat and start sticking it in different spots. What you are experiencing happens quite often. I am no longer a fan of keeping the temp probe stuck in the meat for the entire cook. I use it only at the very end and then never leave it in except to check the temp.

There are 7 large muscles that run thru these butts and they all seem to cook at different rates.

So, just start taking a sampling from various areas. [/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually it started rising shortly after I posted that message. It's now at 192f! I'm pulling it at 194 and letting it rest for 30 minutes before I start pulling.
This cook is going on 13.5 hours. pretty long for a 4.5lb shoulder don't you think? I think the cooking temp thru out the night was between 211 and 225f. That's why its cooking longer. Oh well wont that make for more tender meat?
 
Kevin

I was interested in your comments on meat temp. I had also decided it made no sense to leave the probe in for long cooks such as a butt. I have waited to insert the prode till the last spray. That would mean leaving the probe in for around three hours or so. To me it's more inconvenient to remove racks and turn over meat and spray if you're "hooked up". However, it sounds to me like you're not even talking about leaving the probe in at all but just inserting it when you want to check the temp. I also have a thermapen. Sounds like I would be better off using it to check the temp and doing it through different muscle groups ? Have I missed your point ?

Thanks, PRG
 
This is my second shoulder cook. I don't flip or move the meat at all. I just cook it. I don't even mop it. So leaving the probe in is not that big of a deal for me. BTW shoulder is off. It was practally falling apart as I took it off.

Here's a pic.
picture_012.jpg
 
Paul...

Yes, that is exactly what I do. At the very end just take some spot temps.

Having said that, I can understand for those who are new and want to watch what happens with the meat throughout a cook.

I don't even bother measuring the temp of my briskets anymore as they can be very misleading. I simply use the thermo probe and test for resistance at the end of the cook.
 
Couple of months ago I cooked two pork shoulders. One about 3 lbs. heavier than the other. It was my first time cooking this cut and I used an "instant read" thermometer to monitor the temp in the smaller cut. Every place I stuck that probe in lead to a gusher of juice. That pieace was also drier than the other. Since that experience I hesitate to stick the meat too often.

Is this typical or did I do something wrong in my ignorance?
 
I also just check with an analog ACCU-RITE Thermometer near the end of the cook. It is obviously different with big chunks of meat, but when I do chicken or pork on the Kettle grill, I know it is done when the juices are running clear. I also used that method combined with the thermo on my first WSM attempt which was chicken.

I have heard that some people don't believe in sticking meat at all - even to tenderize or turn 'cuz it let's all the juices run out. I think you gotta probe a whole lot to dry up meat just from thermo probes or turning. Just my opinion.

DWL
 
One more myth about meat....piercing. Meat is comprised of millions of INDIVIDUAL cells. There are not a few large cells of liquid, so, piercing to check the temp will result in mere drops of juices being lost.

Do this test next time.....pierce a piece of meat and watch exactly how much juice comes out. It will flow for only a few seconds and then stop. The amount that comes out is negligible.

Matter of fact many restaurants use a Jacard and there meat comes out very juicy.

Tony, I suspect the meat was drier due to some other problem and not the piercing. I have done the above test many times on all different cuts of meat. Though impossible to measure, the naked eye will verify that very little juice is lost.
 
Stogie

It was interesting to read your comments on piercing meat. I would not have known that. It is very interesting and helpful to read comments from people who have your level of knowlege and experience.

I think experience over a long period of time does have a lot to do with this smoking business. I have a friend "Big Carl" who I cooked a couple of butts with during spring turkey season at my camp. Big Carl was on a diet and was down to 348 and feeling very good about himself. He has smoked meat for many years for others at hunting camps and get togethers. He tests the temperature of the fire with the palm of his hand (not in the fire). He tests the doneness of the meat by touching it and moving the bone in the butt. No thermometers for Big Carl. The Butt was some of the best I've ever eaten. I certainly could not cook like Big Carl does without using tools. He is only able to because of all those years of experience.

I'm glad we do have these tools available because I doubt I'll ever have the level of experience that Big Carl has.

Regards,

PRG
 
Thanks, Paul!

I remember when I first started BBQing.. A Texan told me how to test the fire for the proper heat......stick your arm in the pit and if the hair burns off it is just right!! LOL Of course you can only cook once in a while using this method. LOL

I believe we could all get along without any of the modern tools we use. I have gotten away from needing a thermo to test meat temps. Ribs are all about timing, brisket you can feel for resistance with no thermo needed at all, pork butt, again timing, but twisting the bone and pulling on the meat will tell you how close you are to finished.

But, even I get a little gun shy if I don't have all my tools. It is just very comforting to have them and know you will nail great Q every time.

I get my knowledge from not only experience but reading as well. Merle Ellis, the Nation's Butcher, is one of the best meat guys around and a wealth of knowledge. He has exploded such myths as piercing meat and turning meat only once. BOTH of these are false.....no matter how many times you have heard well known chefs recite them.

Both of them are really nothing but common sense when thought out. Take flipping the meat only once....the hot grates drive the juices away from them and to the top of the meat. If you only flip once, you end up dumping all those juices into the fire. You should always flip the meat several times BEFORE the juice accumulates on the surface. This way, the juices are constantly flowing but they stay inside the meat. Pretty much common sense when you think it through.

Anyway, back to my brisket!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kevin Taylor:
[qb] Take flipping the meat only once....the hot grates drive the juices away from them and to the top of the meat. If you only flip once, you end up dumping all those juices into the fire. You should always flip the meat several times BEFORE the juice accumulates on the surface. This way, the juices are constantly flowing but they stay inside the meat. Pretty much common sense when you think it through.[/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I absolutely agree with this. The only advantage of limited flipping is better looking grill marks, but always at the expense of juiciness.

I was wondering about something that I've seen a couple of times. Are the grates in a smoker actually hotter than the air in there? It would seem that everything inside the cooker at the level of the grates is pretty much the same temperature. Has anyone done some actual testing to show that the metal grates are hotter than the air that surrounds them?
 
I would think that the grates are hotter then the air when you first put the meat on. That's how searing is done right? But I also believe once you put the meat on the grate. Whatever part of the grate that's in contact with the meat will most likely be the same temp as the outside of the meat. That's why when you want to sear the other side of the meat. You should move it to an area not touched by the meat. Otherwise you wont really get any grill marks.
 
Bingo, Dennis!

The grates are much hotter than the ambient air, but cool quickly when the meat hits it.

Also correct about needing to move the meat to a "new" area of the grill as the grates cool enough as to make your next sear mark impossible.

This is one area where many folks go wrong in selecting a grill. They choose one that is so small that you cannot move the meat around.

Another thing you need to do, once you have moved the meat to a new area, you need to clean the old area, because you will use that again on the flip side of the meat.

Realize..you will need a total of 4 clean & hot areas. 2 for each side of the meat. This assumes you have the grates that are straight and not the criss-cross patterns.

I have also gone back to using Pam spray. It is so much easier and seems less wasteful than globbing up a mop and wiping the grill down with olive oil. I tried using my regular basting paint brushes but they all melted. The bigger mops resulted in major flareups OR not enough oil to coat properly. Using paper towel and holding in a tongs worked OK, but again, it can be cumbersome and wasteful.

To avoid the flare-ups with spraying Pam, simply spray at an angle so the stuff doesn't go underneath the grates.
 
Cool Kevin. It's good to know I'm not stupid /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif jk
No but seriously "knowledge is power" and I love to read limitless amounts of info on whatever it is that I enjoy. Ecspecially when you've got a tool like the internet at your finger tips.
I honestly believe from my own experiences you can learn as much about anything you want just by researching on the internet. It's just to bad most work places don't see it that way. It's like a minimal requirment to have some sort of post highschool degree to get a really good job now day's.
I know it's a sort of proof on paper that you know what your doing. But on the other hand there's all sorts of guys that have more knowledge and experience from researching out of there own interests and thirst for knowledge, because they enjoy it. That they know MUCH more then guys coming out of college and tech schools who just want to make a good money!
I've been this way with PC's (which I'm planning on going to school for networking when my wife gets done with nursing school), and BBQing. So then I can claw my way out of being broke /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Like that will ever happen /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
 
I agree with the hot grate in grilling, but I was referring specifically to a smoker. Again, I doubt that the grate in a smoker is actually that much hotter than ambient with the cover on, etc. However, I see posts where people have gone to some length to keep thermo probes off the grate. So are the grates in a smoker actually hotter than the surroundings? If so, how does this happen?
 
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