rib sweat?


 
Originally posted by j biesinger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> but can someone explain to me why a flavor brine will get into the meat, but a marinade won't?
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I don't recall anyone saying that a marinade won't.

there are a couple factors that can come into play when comparing brine to marinade.

1) acidity. Phosphates are often added to brines to increase the pH (move it away from acid towards base), and I have read that acidic brines are not as effective as neutral or basic ones. My guess is that you want the pH of the brine to match that of your meat. Marinades usually have an acidic component. In addition to that, highly acidic marinades can actually slow or stop flavor absorption. Acid will change proteins, effecting the outside ones first, and kind of turning them into a mushy, gray, flavor-barrier.

2) time. brines can go for days, marinades are usually done for hours.

3) concentration. flavors are in higher concentration in a marinade. I usually don't bother flavoring brines since the amount needed to flavor a couple of liters of brine will be excessive.

I can't seem to find it, but somewhere Kevin gets deep into the question of smoke and flavor absorption. The basics of the argument are that a eater takes a bite that includes inside and outside and that it would be impossible for the eater to figure out if the flavors were absorbed into the meat or just laying on top. It really is a moot point whether smoke makes a surface layer or gets into the meat (which we know doesn't). And like your flavored mop, you create a nice layer on the outside that you like, so don't worry that it never gets absorbed when ribs are sweating or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

J, thanks a bunch. I just wanted to respond to your first point in my above post as I'm trying to wake up.

I do indeed acknowledge that brines are pretty special in what they do. I put off doing it for several years since the author of one of my books, Ray Lampe, said he didn't like the texture, and I'm a bit of a fan of him. Anyway, I finally did some fryers about a year ago, and I'm hooked. Brining has brought some incredible forgiveness into my chicken cooking, and yeah, I don't think that marinading is near as valuable a tool. The flavor just doesn't penetrate as deep as you'd think, and maybe the PH is the main issue. Thanks a bunch.
 
Brining has brought some incredible forgiveness into my chicken cooking,
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another point that Kevin makes (that may be a bit counter intuitive) is that moistness is perceived in the mouth and a key player is saliva. We all know that salt makes us salivate.

Brining makes meat salty, and there is no denying that properly season food taste better. I think its as simple as that.

Since its the theme of this thread, I should point out again how off comments by Mike Mills and now Ray Lampe can have profound effects on what we believe and how we cook. That's why I strongly urge people to pursue truth and why I get frustrated by throw away comments that are misleading or just plain wrong.
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J, I can understand frustration w/ fallacies. I'm a bit of a stickler for what's true myself, and on a bit of a philosophical note, in our culture, that frustration can be a real breath of fresh air if it translates to things more important than just bbq.
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Back to the topic, on the other hand, understand that I'm not defending any bbq champions or folks that have made money off books here. I don't think that really serves us here. However, if we learn that spritzing or re-sprinkling rub can help get a better product, I guess it's in our interest as cooks not too be too quick to discount the tip just because the reasoning is faulty.

Sorry if that's stating the obvious, but I really think such techniques can help, particularly if doing low-n-slow ribs. Specifically, do you know what's up w/ Harry Soo spritzing ribs every fifteen minutes after he foils them? I only have watched maybe two shows of the last two seasons of BBQ Pitmasters combined, but I remember hearing M. Mixon say he's started spritzing his ribs, too. Doesn't he foil 'em as well? I wouldn't think spritzing while in the foil would be worth the trouble, but what do I know?
 
Sorry if that's stating the obvious, but I really think such techniques can help, particularly if doing low-n-slow ribs. Specifically, do you know what's up w/ Harry Soo spritzing ribs every fifteen minutes after he foils them? I only have watched maybe two shows of the last two seasons of BBQ Pitmasters combined, but I remember hearing M. Mixon say he's started spritzing his ribs, too. Doesn't he foil 'em as well? I wouldn't think spritzing while in the foil would be worth the trouble, but what do I know?
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Are you familiar with the "wet bulb" factor contributing to the stall? basically, wet things heat slower than dry things, since wet things have moisture to evaporate off, which has a cooling effect. I could see spritzing foiled meats with water as a way to slow the heating. Certainly this is contrary to the fact that most people foil to increase heating and reduce the stall. But lets say Harry foils to keep his ribs from darkening, taking on too much smoke, or to add a flavor layer, but NOT to speed cooking. He can get the benefits of the foil with out over cooking. I guess we won't know what he's really thinking unless he tells us.
 
Thanks, J. I read a LONG thread on a different forum about the wet bulb factor and the stall, evaporation and such. Anyway, it's funny that nobody thought to ask Harry about all that spritzing when he was answering queastions here. At least I thought I read everything and didn't come across it.
 
Thanks, J. I read a LONG thread on a different forum about the wet bulb factor and the stall, evaporation and such. Anyway, it's funny that nobody thought to ask Harry about all that spritzing when he was answering queastions here. At least I thought I read everything and didn't come across it.
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I wish somebody asked him too. Are you positive that he spritzes foiled ribs? because if that's the case, then someone need to call him out on it, its just sounds too crazy. I kind of like my explanation, but there's probably more (or less) to it.
 
Yeah, pretty sure. I'll try to find where I read it tomorrow. Maybe on his website or a youtube video? I just don't remember, but I'll look a little tomorrow.
 
Originally posted by j biesinger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Thanks, J. I read a LONG thread on a different forum about the wet bulb factor and the stall, evaporation and such. Anyway, it's funny that nobody thought to ask Harry about all that spritzing when he was answering queastions here. At least I thought I read everything and didn't come across it.
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I wish somebody asked him too. Are you positive that he spritzes foiled ribs? because if that's the case, then someone need to call him out on it, its just sounds too crazy. I kind of like my explanation, but there's probably more (or less) to it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://tvwbb.com/eve/forums/a/...=594108274#594108274
 
well, I thought this thread had died a long time ago. I did an experiment with four racks of ribs, half got rub when the ribs "sweated" (sweating was determined using Mill's directions) and half at random times.

all the ribs were great, no one could tell the difference between the sweated and non-sweated ribs.
 
well, I thought this thread had died a long time ago. I did an experiment with four racks of ribs, half got rub when the ribs "sweated" (sweating was determined using Mill's directions) and half at random times.

all the ribs were great, no one could tell the difference between the sweated and non-sweated ribs.
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Cool experiment, thanks for the verification.

Did you put the ribs on unrubbed? It sounds like you rubbed them during cooking (when sweating or randomly).

And did you see "sweating." I seem to recall, during constant observation, to never actually witness sweating going on. I was thinking I needed to install a webcam or something in my smoker if I was ever going to catch sweating occurring.
 
To beat a dead horse
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....or to chase a rabbit
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, the only time my ribs "sweat" is after applying the rub BEFORE smoking. Bear in mind that I use the term loosely, not scientifically, just as Harry Soo uses it. The rub is just drawing moisture to the surface and that's what I was taught you wanted before bbqing.

Anyway, besides Mills, I've never heard, read, or seen where ribs "sweat" on the pit. I've heard it described as "weeping" when the fat gets to rendering toward the END of the cook. I know of a guy in Texas that claims to be able to actually HEAR when all the spares start to do this in his offset. He cooks HH with no foil, but if memory serves, sometime after the ribs start "weeping" he quickly ramps the temp down. With no smoking wood left, just coals, he shuts the vents including the exhaust and holds the heat in til he decides to pull the ribs.
 
I rubbed the ribs before they went on and then added more during "sweating". When moisture starts bubbling from the meat they are "sweating".
 
Yes, David, quite a character, indeed, and his videos are something else. Anyway, the reason I brought his method up was that rib weeping doesn't start til the latter part of the cook. Regarding Mill's method, personally, I don't want to be lifting my wsm dome every twenty minutes checking to see if my ribs are doing something that very few people seem to notice during a cook.
 
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