Myth: crisping chicken skin after low 'n slow cook

[William Schmitz]

OK, so I'm probably wading in deep here, but I question whether it's possible to get the skin of a chicken "crispy" after cooking a chicken low and slow.

Last night, I brined and butterflied a chicken and smoked it for about 4 hours at 250-270, until the breasts read 165 and the thighs were 180. Then I disassembled the smoker and put the chicken, skin side down, on the grate right over the coals for a few minutes until the fire was flaring up and I pulled it off. The skin appeared nicely crisped and charred from the few minutes directly over the charcoal. Any more would have resulted in burned, black skin.

That said, the skin as still pretty rubbery, despite a little texture on the outside. Frankly, not very appetizing and I ended up pulling it all off and serving the chicken naked. The flavor of the meat was superb, smoky and moist (I used a small chunk of hickory and a medium sized chunk of apple). But without the crispy skin, it was still a little disappointing.

Anyway, the point of the post is to wonder whether it's possible to get the same crispy texture to the skin after going low and slow, even if you take the time to put the bird over direct heat skin side down at the end?

It seems to me that this short blast of direct heat cannot simulate the effect of 45-60 minutes of high indirect heat you get from a traditional kettle roasting or high heat WSM cook. The best crispy skin chicken I make is using a Cook's Illustrated recipe where the bird is butterflied and cooked at 500 degrees on a broiler pan whose bottom is lined with thinly sliced potatoes to soak up the chicken fat and prevent it from burning and smoking your house during the cooking process.

Thoughts? Comments?

Bill

 

[Robert Oleksak]

Here's a pretty good read. Maybe it can help.
http://www.thepickledpig.com/h.../chicken/chicken.cfm

 

[j biesinger]

I recently did 6 birds in a stubborn wsm that stuck around 300*. They ended up being in there for a long time and the interesting thing was that the skin wasn't rubbery but instead it was dry and tough like jerky. I figured it'll either be rubbery or crispy. But now I have to consider leathery, and whether it comes after crispy or is some other tangent of rubbery.

 

[Phil Perrin]

William,I don't have a lot of experience with poultry on the WSM,but what I have done has been superb. I think the best advice I've gotten from the forum is to only do poultry as a high heat cook. You still add smoke wood for flavor AND the skin is crispy. HTH

 

[Dale Perry]

Originally posted by j biesinger:
I recently did 6 birds in a stubborn wsm that stuck around 300*. They ended up being in there for a long time and the interesting thing was that the skin wasn't rubbery but instead it was dry and tough like jerky. I figured it'll either be rubbery or crispy. But now I have to consider leathery, and whether it comes after crispy or is some other tangent of rubbery.

Lol, that was good. And i agree with low n slow = crispy as a myth. Now rubber/leather i totally agree with.

 

[Bill Freiberger]

I believe the skin gets crisp from the fat being heated to a high temp. You're basically frying the skin with the chicken fat. So if you've slow cooked the chicken and a lot of the fat has dripped off, there isn't enough to fry the skin at the end. Also, it's harder to get a crisp skin on a brined bird. So the combination of the two techniques is probably why the skin was still rubbery.

Bill

 

[Craig Castille]

I never use the wsm for chicken with the skin on. It's much easier to do on the kettle at 400+ degrees.

I will smoke skinless boneless thighs and or breasts though.

 

[Don Irish]

Originally posted by craig castille:
I never use the wsm for chicken with the skin on. It's much easier to do on the kettle at 400+ degrees.

I have no problem getting my WSM up to 450+ using lump, all vents open and either the door propped open or lid slightly ajar...set it and forget it (for an hour).

 

[Gary Bramley]

The skin had always been a problem for me as well. What's a good piece of chicken without tasty and palatable skin?

My observations and preferences: my default cooking temp these days is a minimum 300 and more often then not I cook at high heat and a combination of direct and indirect; separate the skin from the meat, and a little compound butter or oil under the skin never hurt; I have noticed that skin finish is better when I have marinated (usually contains oil) vs. brined, but I have not air dried a chicken in the fridge for any significant amount of time (someone that has may be able to comment on that); if a glaze or sauce is added at the end I do not expect crispy skin, but skin that is tender to the bite. With that said there have been times where I have basted a chicken throughout – like roadside chicken – and the skin finish is really good.

I have to agree with Bill, heat and fat are big players, but then I would have to ask what is the finishing sauce doing to the skin?

Gary

 

[j biesinger]

I believe the skin gets crisp from the fat being heated to a high temp. You're basically frying the skin with the chicken fat. So if you've slow cooked the chicken and a lot of the fat has dripped off, there isn't enough to fry the skin at the end. Also, it's harder to get a crisp skin on a brined bird. So the combination of the two techniques is probably why the skin was still rubbery.

I like your thinking. It certainly sounds plausible. I guess the fix would be a nice oiling after smoking before the direct heat.

 

[Brian Bo.]

Thankfully I stopped eating chicken skin so I don't ever have this problem.

 

[Ken_K]

Originally posted by Brian Bo.:
Thankfully I stopped eating chicken skin so I don't ever have this problem.

I don't either. I started stripping the skin off and just putting the rub straight on the meat. The outside of the meat forms almost a bark-like texture, not at all objectionable -- at least to me -- and far preferable to taking one bite and the whole skin sliding off with all your spice rub.

 

[Clay Cope]

I've experienced the rubber myself. Has anyone tried this method with the WSM?

Simple Chicken

 

[j biesinger]

I don't either. I started stripping the skin off and just putting the rub straight on the meat. The outside of the meat forms almost a bark-like texture, not at all objectionable -- at least to me -- and far preferable to taking one bite and the whole skin sliding off with all your spice rub.

I'm not quite there yet, but I've been slashing the skin on whole birds at joints and on the breast. That way I get rub under the skin and smoke gets to the meat. I get spots of bark (as you stated) so it all works like PP when the meat is boned.

 

[William Schmitz]

So it looks like the consensus is you can either go high heat for nice crispy skin, or go low and slow for more smoke flavor into the meat. I was hoping to achieve both by trying to crisp the skin at the end over direct heat.

Most of my family takes the skin off anyway, and I sure don't eat the skin like I used to, but damn, there's something about nice crispy chicken skin that is a real treat.

Anyway, thanks to all who chimed in.

Bill

 

[Dan H.]

wow, I actually have a routine jerk chicken night and I cook it at and around 250 (or anywhere close, higher or lower) and I actually prefer it this way these days. Im going to need someones help as to why but I get a decent crispy skin. When I pull it its not quite to a temp I like/or done (internally), and I then do as direct as I can w/ out burning, yes until the skin is crisp. The time on direct heat is ussually around 10 or 15 minutes. I was actually surprised by this post. I used to do chicken on the grill always, but I really prefer it this way these days. "These days" is probably about the last couple months, and much more in the future. I will admit it is not as crisp as cooking the chicken or chicken pieces over 400+ in the WSM the whole time, but I think its good and fine. Its really more of the inside texture for me that I like w/ this method then anything.
I guess my 2 cents would be to give it an earlier start on the high heat stage. If theres such thing as direct/sorta indirect, I guess thats kinda what I shoot for. The grill I often use for this has an adjustable charcoal grate, and I have much coals but low enough it doesn't burn it black if that makes sense. I've done the process in the smokey joe platinum too w/ ok results, and the best results were probably in the wsm, but I think its sort of a pain to pull apart for "grilling." hope I helped a little.

I had asked about the texture thing and the whole method and was helped out a while back by K.Kruger and cant find that post, but I figure if he had done jerk before that way I couldn't be led to wrong, lol. maybe its just a preference thing to, I don't know. My feeling is, William is that you can have both. Sounds like something to practice/experiement w/. I wish I could give you the list of all my "blown" ideas but i'de run out of room. Sometimes you just gotta mess around until you get something you like and dont completely throw the idea away because of one post, know what I mean?

let us know! hth.

 

[j biesinger]

I was hoping to achieve both by trying to crisp the skin at the end over direct heat.

fat (oil or butter) applied to the skin after smoking/before grilling may be a possible solution. If rubbery skin is impossible to crisp up because it rendered out all the fat, then maybe adding it back could help.

I made perfect thighs once by smoking them naked and then re-wrapping them with the raw skin (fixing it with wooden skewers). I then roasted the heck out of them to crisp the skin. we haven't had much luck replicating them, but I'm still working on it. Its more of a comp thing though, I don't know if I'd bother for an evening dinner.

 

[K Kruger]

If rubbery skin is impossible to crisp up because it rendered out all the fat, then maybe adding it back could help.

Rubbery skin is not rubbery because the fat has been rendered out. It is rubbery because the ratio of moisture to proteins to fat is off. Rubbery skin is rubbery because it hasn't cooked well enough vis-à-vis the approach used.

Regardless, if you are talking comp chicken then I assume you are saucing. As stated upthread, you cannot maintain crisp skin (should you crisp the skin) if you are saucing. Shoot for bite-through instead, which requires different dynamics.

 

[K Kruger]

Since we're on the subject: chicken --for laughs.

 

[j biesinger]

Rubbery skin is not rubbery because the fat has been rendered out. It is rubbery because the ratio of moisture to proteins to fat is off. Rubbery skin is rubbery because it hasn't cooked well enough vis-à-vis the approach used.

Its mentioned up thread that its possible that a low heat approach renders out the fat, and afterwords the skin can't crisp up without the fat even over direct heat. To clarify, we weren't saying the skin is rubbery because it lacked fat, but instead, that the fat never got hot enough to crisp the skin before it rendered away. Its all speculative, you probably have a better idea if we are on the right track.

Regardless, if you are talking comp chicken then I assume you are saucing. As stated upthread, you cannot maintain crisp skin (should you crisp the skin) if you are saucing. Shoot for bite-through instead, which requires different dynamics.

I been over this a couple times, and believe me, I'm working on it. Its getting frustrating, and at this point different dynamics might mean different dynamite.