Food safety question

[Rick Moore]

So I think I messed up. I had 2 butts in the freezer sealed in a 2-gallon ziploc. I took them out of the freezer on Monday morning and put them in a 5-day cooler covered in water. The intent was to check them last night and see how they were doing. Well, I forgot. I got home from work today and there was the cooler. I took the butts out of the water and brought them inside to check their condition. They were completely thawed and measured 55 degress with my thermapen. They do not appear discolored and have no off smell, but I don't have a clue what they danger temp is for a butt and how long they had been this temp.

Any ideas... The conservative sides says throw them out but man that is a lot of meat to heave into the trash...

Thanks in advance!

 

[K Kruger]

The uninformed side says throw them out. No need to.

As long as you are going to cook them completely there is no issue.

Off smell would only mean spoilage bacteria. Those aren't the bacteria that will make you sick. Pathogens have no odor. Though pathogens, if present (and one must assume so), would probably have multiplied, at the temps the butt has been and what it is now the growth would be rather slow. Further, it is quite unlikely that there would be any pathogen present that would not be taken care of to the point of pasteurization once the butts are cooked thoroughly. I would cook them now.

 

[George Curtis]

yea, as long as they are cooked beyond 140 int temp for some time you will be ok.

 

[Rick Moore]

Thanks both for the replies. Kevin - I don't visit here often anymore but good to see you are still very active! This is still my first place to come when I have questions!

So, really - cook it now? I put it in the fridge about 2 hours ago when I found out what I had done. But I can certainly go out and get the WSM going now. The plan is to eat it Saturday with friends... And yes, it will be cooked thoroughly...unless 195 isn't thorough!

 

[K Kruger]

I had the impression that that was you're concern - i.e., whether you could cook it now. Cooking it tomorrow instead would be fine.

Good to 'see' you again Rick!

 

[Rick Moore]

10-4. Thanks much!

 

[James Harvey]

Kevin, Rick,

This is something I've never fully understood. In laymans terms, if I have a piece of meat cooked above 140F, is it safe to eat regardless of the pathogens/bacteria that may have built (taking chicken out of the mix)? I'm assuming that we're not talking about stinky, obviously spoiled meat. Perhaps a dumb question but I have to ask.

This now leads me to the question about defrosting and refreezing uncooked meat.

 

[William Schmitz]

James: Even chicken can be safe cooked to 140 degrees, if it is held there long enough. It is one of the greatly misunderstood concepts in the food world. With the increasingly available options for cooking things sous vide (even for the home cook) more people are learning about this. For instance, a chicken breast must be cooked to 165, according to the government guidelines. But that is assuming you are eating right away; as soon as it hits 165. However, at 140, if held there for approximately an hour, that same chicken breast is just as safe to eat (and, might I say much juicer). For more, check out the Serious Eats blog: http://www.seriouseats.com/201...erature-chicken.html
To bring it home to the original post on this thread, even though some pathogens may have multiplied when his porks butts got to 55 degrees (out of the safe zone), most people cook them for such a long period of time, and to such high internal temps (i.e. 190+), that those pathogens will be seriously dead . . . of course, then it is important to keep that butt above 140 before serving.

Bill

 

[Rick Moore]

Bill-

Your last statement - holding above 140 before serving - I assume this is applicable to any meat - not just my pork that went through the situation described in my original post.

My temps are at 185 now - plan on pulling between 192 and 195, double wrapping in foil, towels and resting in a cooler for about 2 hours. Temps will still be above 140 at this point.

I'm trying to make sure that I don't need to handle this pork after it is cooked any differently than any of the other hundreds of butts I have smoked. Maybe that is a better way to say it.

Thanks,

Rick

 

[K Kruger]

No. You do not need to handle the pork differently.

Note that the Danger Zone is actually 40-130, not 140 as is commonly reported, mostly due to endless yet erroneous repetition likely based on the dumbed-down info proffered by the USDA/FDA.

I'm not terribly concerned about internal temp during holding. It is the surface temp that tends to drop, first, and second, it is the meat's surface that is more likely to be contaminated prior to cooking, and more likely to become contaminated after cooking - due to cross contamination by placing it on a contaminated surface or using contaminated utensils, touching it, sneezing on or nearby it, and so forth (Staph is carried naturally on the skin of many people; it is also transmitted by sneezing and coughing).

This is something I've never fully understood. In laymans terms, if I have a piece of meat cooked above 140F, is it safe to eat...

Not necessarily. It depends on the meat type (whether it is an intact roast or ground meat), type of poultry, and most importantly, how long it was at or above 130.

...regardless of the pathogens/bacteria that may have built (taking chicken out of the mix)?

There is no need to take poultry out of the mix. Though often treated by people as being much more dangerous than red meat it isn't. It requires fairly similar time-at-temp scenarios. To answer this part of the question though, assuming you have cooked the meat to a particular temp (or higher) and maintained that temp for a particular amount of time (the time necessary decreases as the temps rise) it is safe to eat. I'm talking about raw meat and poultry products here, that will be cooked and served promptly - or cooked, held at safe temps then served - and assume you are speaking of the same. There are other issues for foods that are cooked and not served promptly either by circumstance or plan, or for already cooked foods.

I'm assuming that we're not talking about stinky, obviously spoiled meat.

No, we're not. But spoilage bacteria, while making the meat very unpleasant to touch, smell, or consume, rarely make anyone ill. It's the pathogens - they have no odor themselves nor do they cause odor - that are the bad boys.

For more info on pasteurization and the time-at-temp numbers see this post.