first brisket and I need help


 
C

Craig Lax

New member
So I did my first brisket. Short story, started at 6am. Went to work and came home at 1pm to find the fire out.

first question
I'm using natural lump. Chimney start, minion method. The fire never seems to keep up for more than two/three hours. It starts out really hot 350, I close vents take cover off finally get it down, put meat on, then if I open the vents 50 it goes high again, and if I keep them almost closed it goes out.

Very frustrating.

The meat was not tender, the outside tasted like jerkey and the inside had the smallest smoke ring I've ever seen.

PLease give me hints on keeping the fire steady at 225-250 for hours. I've read some people say "mine has stayed even for 15hrs" How?

I"m using plenty of charcoal. maybe I should put the hot coals down first then cover them with new lump.

Thank you for your suggestions.

I just want moist, tender, meat. I can work on my rubs and marinades, but I need to know the secret of the bullet.
 
How full was the charcoal bowl/ring and how much lump did you start with in the chimney starter?

If the temp is heading in upwards of 350 at startup, it sounds like you are starting out with too much fuel. Trick is to catch the temp on the way up, and close vents off gradually.
 
I not a big fan of lump. It burns too hot, fast and erratic for my taste. I pack the ring full of kingsford and then start about 7 - 10 coals on the side. When the coals are fully lit and grey, dump the lit coals on top of the unlit and wait about 5 minutes. Then assemble the unit and keep the vents at about 50% and adjust from there. Like Mitch said, you want to control the temp on the way up.
 
Like the other guys said, it's a lot easier to catch the smoker heating up than to cool it down later. I use briquettes, but I'm sure the same rules apply...

For a long smoke like brisket, I fill the charcoal ring completely full of unlit charcoal. Light up a few in your chimney (I do 10-20 briquettes depending on how hot and how quick I want to work... don't know what the equivalent lump would be), then dump the lit coals on top of the unlit and assemble the WSM (including meat) with all vents open 100%. Fire goes upward quicker than it goes down, so it will take longer to ignite the unlit coals underneath, giving a lower temp and a longer cook. If you dump in lit coals first, then pour unlit on top, you'll get a bigger, hotter, faster fire. I keep an eye on things until the temp is getting around 200, then I shut the bottom vents to 50% until it hits 220 or so, then close 'em anywhere from 33% to barely a slit depending on the weather.

I can easily spend a good hour or more tinkering with it (not constantly monitoring, but checking every 15 minutes or so while cleaning dishes, sipping a cold one, kicking back outside, etc.), and I'll watch it for another hour for any variations, but once I'm satisfied with the temp I can let it smoke away all day or all night with just a little attention every four hours or so (and it could easily go longer). I don't leave the smoker cooking with nobody at home other than for a 15 minute run to the corner store though... just a personal rule.

Originally posted by Craig Lax:
...It starts out really hot 350, I close vents take cover off finally get it down...
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On a side note, taking the lid off will lower the temp immediately, but it will generally make the problem worse overall. This lets hot air out of the cooker, but it also lets a whole bunch of fresh oxygen get in to the coals to stoke up the fire. Closing the bottom vents is the right thing to do (cutting off oxygen) but it's usually best to just do that and let the fire gradually burn lower.

Maybe give another brisket a shot on the weekend or another time you can kick back and watch it, so you'll get a good feel for how the fire, smoke, meat, and WSM all handle throughout the cook. Good luck... I'm sure you'll turn out a good one!
 
A few questions; prior to leaving for work did you have the fire stabilized between 225 - 250 range? What were your vent positions when you left for work? Are you using water and if so are you starting with cold or hot water? How much lump are you starting your MM with? I assume when you write, "the fire out" you had lump still in your ring, it had just gone out.

As others wrote, it can take a good hour to get your temps stabilized. I'd try putting the meat on when you're dumping your lump, then catch the temp on the way up and dial her in. I'm assuming your WSM is new so the first few cooks she's going to run a bit hot, not much you can do about that other than get several cooks under your belt. I'd also suggest doing your next cook when your around so you can get a feel for working with your vents and the airflow she's going to need to keep temp where you want it.

Let me know the answers to the above and I (or others) should be able to help you find "the secret of the bullet." Trust me, if I can figure this thin out anyone can.
 
I get over 20 hours easily on a low and slow cook using lump, and I use the minion method.

On high heat cooks (325-350) I'll get 8 hours with leftovers.

Sounds like you are not filling the ring full, or are using an inferior lump.

Are you using Cowboy by chance?

There are differences in burn times between brands.

Also, how much are you using? I pack in probably 10-12 lbs each time.

Like others, I'll put the meat on after the lit engages with the unlit.

Taking the lid off will make temperatures soar.

Especially with lump.

Lump is actually easier to control than briquets because it reacts much faster to vent changes.

JMO.
 
Thank you all for your responses. Here's some more info.

I am using lump (cowboy is from Trader Joes (which I use) but this one was from Whole foods)

I filled the ring up pretty high and filled the chimney completely.

Once the chimney has the gray ash, I dumped it on top. It was yesterday in Philly (temp was 95 with high humidity).

I did not have the temp stabalized. After reading this, I will now wait up to 1 hour to get it correct and locked in.

When I wrote that the fire was out, the bottom ring was 3/4 full of lump, gray, but the heat was gone.

I had the vents 100% in the beginning, to keep the fire going. once it jumped to 350 (in roughly one minute). How can I get it to slow down when it goes so fast?

I closed the vents off yada yada yada.

I really appreciate you getting back to me.

I want to use the natural lump, but I keep hearing that the briquettes work. What is a good natural lump?

I also forgot to say, it is new. Got it two weeks ago and have done three smokes all to disappointing results. I'm a great griller but this smoking thing is tricky.

Thank you for your advice and I'll keep on trying.
 
Originally posted by Craig Lax:
Thank you all for your responses. Here's some more info.

I am using lump (cowboy is from Trader Joes (which I use) but this one was from Whole foods)

I filled the ring up pretty high and filled the chimney completely.
COMMENT: Far more lit than needed for a MM cook. I don't use lump but when using charcoal I start my dry MM cooks with say 8 - 10 lit briquettes. If you're using water I'd guess you should be starting yours with about 1/4 chimney of lit.

Once the chimney has the gray ash, I dumped it on top. It was yesterday in Philly (temp was 95 with high humidity).
COMMENT: What I do is after I dump my lit, assemble my WSM (with meat), when my temp hits 200 I shut down my bottom vents, see where she's going to settle in then start adjusting for desired temp. BTW, I'm sure it is but I did want to mention you should be running with your top vent open.

I did not have the temp stabalized. After reading this, I will now wait up to 1 hour to get it correct and locked in.
COMMENT: Right answer
icon_wink.gif


When I wrote that the fire was out, the bottom ring was 3/4 full of lump, gray, but the heat was gone.
COMMENT: This would be expected result after closing your vents.

I had the vents 100% in the beginning, to keep the fire going. once it jumped to 350 (in roughly one minute). How can I get it to slow down when it goes so fast?
COMMENT: Less lit and adjusting vents around 200

I closed the vents off yada yada yada.
COMMENT: So bottom vents were closed when you went to work? Here lies the reason your fire went out. Need to keep some
oxygen coming in to feed your fire. Each WSM seems to be different on the vent positions required to maintain
desired temps. Biggest factor is how drafty your WSM is. After a few cooks you'll figure-out where your "sweet spot is.

I really appreciate you getting back to me.

I want to use the natural lump, but I keep hearing that the briquettes work. What is a good natural lump?

I also forgot to say, it is new. Got it two weeks ago and have done three smokes all to disappointing results. I'm a great griller but this smoking thing is tricky.

Thank you for your advice and I'll keep on trying.
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All in all easy "tweaks," make these minor adjustments and you should be golden. Let us know how your next cook goes.
 
lump charcoal is great for cooking chicken since you sorta need a higher temperature to fully cook to avoid salmonella. but for brisket regular kingsford is better.

the difference is the surface area of the lump is variable from piece to piece to burn rates will be different as the fire moves throught the coals and it is much harder to stabilize and keep stabile. with charcoal like kingsford the burn rate is the same begining to end.

i smoke on a traditional BBQ rig built on a trailer using oak wood to stoke the fire and it was always a pain checking the thing every 45min to hour. i rejoiced when i found a smoker that would cook a brisket using one large bag of kingsford and a little bit of smoke wood. the WSM for me was heaven sent.

anyway try it with charcoal use a half bag or so to practice temperature control without any meat in the thing then give another a brisket a whirl. the key like others have said is it is easier to control it on the rise than cool it down.
 
lump charcoal is great for cooking chicken since you sorta need a higher temperature to fully cook to avoid salmonella. but for brisket regular kingsford is better.
the difference is the surface area of the lump is variable from piece to piece to burn rates will be different as the fire moves throught the coals and it is much harder to stabilize and keep stabile. with charcoal like kingsford the burn rate is the same begining to end.
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That is so not true. I use lump 90-95% of the time on my cooks. I'll only use briqs when doing bacon or a cold smoke, or if I run out of lump, score a great deal on Royal Oak briqs, or Rancher briqs. And I never use Kingsford, can't stand the smell of it

Yes but... that's why there's 100's of posts on TVWBB telling people tp pack the ring when using lump. Put the big pieces on the bottom or top depending how they come out of the bag. Fill 1/3rd up of lump and rock the charcoal bowl back and forth. Do another 1/3rd rock, repeat. Takes less than a minute to do. This will eliminate the big air gaps and make that lump burn just as stable as briqs.
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'Sorta need a higher temperature to avoid salmonella'? Um, no. Cook temp is immaterial in regards to Salmonella. It is controlled like most pathogens--by cooking the food to a minimum safe temperature, i.e., pasteurization.

Many of us use lump all the time--no matter what we are cooking in or on.

Neither Cowboy nor WF lump is of very good quality, btw. So-so for grilling (it tends to burn up quickly), not so great for smoking. Get a denser lump. In your area, Craig, Humphrey's lump would be a good choice.
 
When I cook brisket, I use lump and it works great. I use Wicked Good, which I got from a local BBQ supply store. I agree with the others that you started with too much lit coals. Try starting with about 1/4 of a chimney of lit lump.

For longer cooks, if the temp starts to go down, you may have some ash buildup, espcially if you use a second charcoal grate like I do. About every 5 hours or so, stir the coals gently to dislodge the ash, and that will help keep the fire running even.
 
Craig,

I strongly disagree with the earlier post that said lump is harder to control.

As Bryan said, packing the ring fully will channel a steady burn.


If you find a quality lump, a long slow cook is likely easier to attain as well, since there is little ash build up to choke out the bottom layers of fuel.

If you are in Philly, I would look for Humphreys lump (it's manufactured in PA).

Stay away from Cowboy, it's overpriced in comparison to burn time, and is totally ill-suited for the wsm.
 
Brisket is a low grade cut of meat, and needs low and slow cooking. You know this, or you wouldn't be here. I cook a lot of brisket, and have come up with the following technique that is very consistent, yet may make the purist scream. I use kingsford charcoal, and a mix of hickory and red oak. I first sear the meat on both sides over the coals, the move it off of the heat and indirectly cook for about two hours, keeping wood on the coals thsmoke the meat. I then remove the meat from the grill, and wrap it in aluminum foil, first covering it with my favorite BBQ sauce. Then I either put it in the oven at 250for about 6 hours, or I run the grill at the same temp. Kinda depends on what things are like outside, and how much I'm squeezed for cooking space in the kitchen. I have never had a problem with charcoal when it comes to maintaining temp. I believe that it is a more consistent than other fuel. Good luck.
 
Bryan S,
I am reporting my experience with brisket, and How I feel it turns out the best. I personally , have never had good luck with high heat cooking of brisket, and most people I know don't either. You can't miss with low and slow, especially if you have other stuff to do.
 
Bryan S,
I am reporting my experience with brisket, and How I feel it turns out the best. I personally , have never had good luck with high heat cooking of brisket, and most people I know don't either. You can't miss with low and slow, especially if you have other stuff to do.
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That's fine but here's the problem with the wording in your post. "needs low and slow cooking. You know this"
1) Craig is new to smoking, he is just learning. Your statement "needs low and slow" is miss leading and miss information to him and other newbies that will read this thread.
2) When you make a post and you feel that this is the best way to cook or do something just put in IMO (In my opinion)
 
Thank you all for the advice.

full ring
1/4 pack chimney
play for about an hour till stabablized
monitor the cook
better lump than cowboy

you guys are great. Can't wait to try it again.

-ps. I live in Wynnewood, lower Merion
 
better lump than cowboy
-ps. I live in Wynnewood, lower Merion
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Craig, Go to Wegman's and get their lump for now. It's made by Royal Oak and burns great.

Unless I missed it, did you use water in the pan or dry?

I'll look up Wynnewood and see where your at. You know I might be up for a road trip.
 
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