Apple sauce injection?


 

Brad Marquardt

New member
Has anyone here every tried doing an apple sauce based injection in their pork butts? I am doing two butts for Labor Day and while I am always looking to try something different, I am hosting my soon to be in laws and well.... I'd like to really knock this one out of the park. Thoughts? Comments? Thanks a ton guys, keep smokin'!

-Brad
 
"but ya never know when you might have a new winner" Thanks for the thoughts guys

Don't want to rain on your parade but the same can be said when you bomb out too! Each to their own but this would be the time I would play it really, really safe!
 
Do you have a reason for thinking injecting solids into pork will improve the pork in some way? If you do, lets talk about it, because there is probably a solution (no pun intended) that has been tested.

I get wanting to break new ground, but I'm not sure apple sauce will get you anywhere. It's basically apple juice with pulp (fiber).
 
baby mama drama and logic

Don't want to rain on your parade but the same can be said when you bomb out too! Each to their own but this would be the time I would play it really, really safe!

Do you have a reason for thinking injecting solids into pork will improve the pork in some way? If you do, lets talk about it, because there is probably a solution (no pun intended) that has been tested.

I get wanting to break new ground, but I'm not sure apple sauce will get you anywhere. It's basically apple juice with pulp (fiber).


True, but you could say that about most anything though. For example, "I think that girl is pretty hot... but she could have a baby daddy locked up in the pen and if he gets out and finds out another man is around he could come after me. I don't want no baby mama drama so I better not talk to her...". It could happen, but then again.... Eh.

I suppose that my "theory" (and it would be a stretch calling even that) is that it is a bit thicker and therefore will be less prone to leaking out right away. But are we really going to consider apple sauce a solid? I'm not exactly jamming a whole apple into the center of the pork butt. I really like the way apple and pork go together and I'm trying to hit that flavor profile from a few different angles. Again and as always, thanks for the thoughts.
 
True, but you could say that about most anything though. For example, "I think that girl is pretty hot... but she could have a baby daddy locked up in the pen and if he gets out and finds out another man is around he could come after me. I don't want no baby mama drama so I better not talk to her...". It could happen, but then again.... Eh.

I suppose that my "theory" (and it would be a stretch calling even that) is that it is a bit thicker and therefore will be less prone to leaking out right away. But are we really going to consider apple sauce a solid? I'm not exactly jamming a whole apple into the center of the pork butt. I really like the way apple and pork go together and I'm trying to hit that flavor profile from a few different angles. Again and as always, thanks for the thoughts.

Ok, generally the commercial injects use xanthan gum to thicken them, which I assume would be to hold them in place a bit longer and like you stated: less prone to leaking out. Xanthan gum is packaged be Bob's Red Mill and can be found in supermarkets that stock that line. It's pretty pricey, but you end up buying a lifetime supply. It can be a bit clumpy when hydrated, so I generally make my inject, strain it well, dissolve the xanthan, then puree it with a stick blender. I don't blame you if you don't want to go that route, I only tried it because I wanted to try to fabricate my own version of Butcher's inject.

I'm wondering if jelly might be a better option than sauce. The jelly will melt during cooking and the pectin might give you a finish like the gelatin that comes from the breakdown of collagen.

With pulled pork, I lean towards adding flavors towards the end with a sauce, rather than up front with an inject. Most flavors don't hold up to long cooking and are generally undetectable in the finished product. Consider mix 1/3 apple jelly with 2/3 bbq sauce and glaze the butt with it during the last 60 min or so.
 
Good stuff

Ok, generally the commercial injects use xanthan gum to thicken them, which I assume would be to hold them in place a bit longer and like you stated: less prone to leaking out. Xanthan gum is packaged be Bob's Red Mill and can be found in supermarkets that stock that line. It's pretty pricey, but you end up buying a lifetime supply. It can be a bit clumpy when hydrated, so I generally make my inject, strain it well, dissolve the xanthan, then puree it with a stick blender. I don't blame you if you don't want to go that route, I only tried it because I wanted to try to fabricate my own version of Butcher's inject.

I'm wondering if jelly might be a better option than sauce. The jelly will melt during cooking and the pectin might give you a finish like the gelatin that comes from the breakdown of collagen.

With pulled pork, I lean towards adding flavors towards the end with a sauce, rather than up front with an inject. Most flavors don't hold up to long cooking and are generally undetectable in the finished product. Consider mix 1/3 apple jelly with 2/3 bbq sauce and glaze the butt with it during the last 60 min or so.


You're the man, that sounds pretty fantastic. I'm assuming that glaze will tighten up that last bit and really round out the "bark"? I dabble on and off with foiling, do you use foil or no? I was thinking use foil but then put it back on the cooker for the last 30-60 min. without foil so the bark and "glaze" can tighten up. Thoughts? Thanks bud.
 
Ok, generally the commercial injects use xanthan gum to thicken them, which I assume would be to hold them in place a bit longer and like you stated: less prone to leaking out. Xanthan gum is packaged be Bob's Red Mill and can be found in supermarkets that stock that line. It's pretty pricey, but you end up buying a lifetime supply. It can be a bit clumpy when hydrated, so I generally make my inject, strain it well, dissolve the xanthan, then puree it with a stick blender. I don't blame you if you don't want to go that route, I only tried it because I wanted to try to fabricate my own version of Butcher's inject.

I'm wondering if jelly might be a better option than sauce. The jelly will melt during cooking and the pectin might give you a finish like the gelatin that comes from the breakdown of collagen.

With pulled pork, I lean towards adding flavors towards the end with a sauce, rather than up front with an inject. Most flavors don't hold up to long cooking and are generally undetectable in the finished product. Consider mix 1/3 apple jelly with 2/3 bbq sauce and glaze the butt with it during the last 60 min or so.

As I've stated too many times to count I don't really see the point of injecting meats that are going to be pulled. Too easy to simply use a good finishing sauce to even flavors and texture. And butt does not need added 'moisture'. Though I don't bother injecting brisket (easy to add a paint) I can see it there. I do sometimes inject meats that will be smoked or otherwise cooked for sandwich meat (turkey or chicken breast, butt or loin meant for thin slicing, etc.) but can't stand the typically used addition: phosphate. One ends up with that cheap-y deli meat texture I absolutely loathe. (That this texture often seems to do well in comps doesn't speak well for comp judging, ime.)

Though, perhaps, pectin might in some way give one somewhat of a slightly similar texture to collagen I am not seeing why this is needed or would be a good thing were it possible - as as injection. As a glaze, sure. Jelly is commonly used. Better, imo, is jam - just heat it then purée it well after it softens to blend the fruit pieces well and make it smooth and thicker. Reduce to tighten if necessary then add any additional flavor agents (I am partial to very reduced juices and/or purées, reduced meat stocks and/or reduced wine, and definitely a little fat. I don't find a place for sauce here but that's me.)

On xanthan, Google xanthan from Authentic Foods. It's available on line and in some stores. Small container so less money (I think I paid ~$6 last time I bought it) but it still lasts a long time. I use it every day at least once, often several times. A jar lasts me a long time still.
 
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You're the man, that sounds pretty fantastic. I'm assuming that glaze will tighten up that last bit and really round out the "bark"? I dabble on and off with foiling, do you use foil or no? I was thinking use foil but then put it back on the cooker for the last 30-60 min. without foil so the bark and "glaze" can tighten up. Thoughts? Thanks bud.

Actually, Mr Kruger is the man. I'm merely the warm up act until he brings the real expertise. You'll notice we have a lot of similar arguments, because his reasoning is mostly based on empirical data, which is difficult to ignore.

IMO, foil is almost required for bbq (unless you have extremely high humidity internal smoking conditions). I typically smoke a butt until the bark is tight and the color I want, and at a point where I know it won't soften to the point where it goes away. This takes 60%-70% of the total cook time. As long as you don't take it too far that it falls apart, remove it from foil and start glazing.

I can't speak to jam, but I know that jelly and sauce make for a very shiny glaze.
 
Ah. Sometimes the warm-up act is better than the main...

Your mentioning it reminds me to note that jam or jelly ultimately depends on the jam's original content and what else is going into the glaze mix. Stated differently, if the jam is dense and darkly colored and the additional inclusions are not substantial nor lightly colored the glaze might be too dark. (Of course, application thickness and frequency matter.) This can be a potential problem with jelly as well but jam, having pieces of fruit in it, can be more of an issue. Consider color when formulating. ( As an example, I like pineapple jam melted then puréed with a little tamarind concentrate and demi-glacé, for one.)

The increased cooking efficiency and moisture retention that foiling offers can't be ignored.
 
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If I was going to do a apple sauce injection I would think about doing a 100% pure apple juice (not from concentrate) reduction on the stove. Drive off most of the moisture and all you'll be left with is a thick apple glaze that has less water but all the flavor and sugar that comes from apples themselves. Or if you have a juicer make your own apple juice unfiltered! That would be awesome! Or push the apple sauce through a fine fine mesh strainer to collect the juice.

I would only use all natural apple juice or sauce though, as most commercial stuff has a ton of extra sugar and might come off as cloying in the final dish. But I haven't barbecued a whole lot, only cooked in the kitchen, but that is my first idea to the apple idea.
 
Ah. Sometimes the warm-up act is better than the main...

Your mentioning it reminds me to note that jam or jelly ultimately depends on the jam's original content and what else is going into the glaze mix. Stated differently, if the jam is dense and darkly colored and the additional inclusions are not substantial nor lightly colored the glaze might be too dark. (Of course, application thickness and frequency matter.) This can be a potential problem with jelly as well but jam, having pieces of fruit in it, can be more of an issue. Consider color when formulating. ( As an example, I like pineapple jam melted then puréed with a little tamarind concentrate and demi-glacé, for one.)

The increased cooking efficiency and moisture retention that foiling offers can't be ignored.

Oh I like to take in both acts equally ;)

This has all been great stuff guys. Probably going to try some of it out on labor day. Definitely the glaze.
 

 

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