2nd Cook - Brisket


 
Scott C.

Scott C.

TVWBB Super Fan
Well, everyone said it came out good, but I think it was a little rubbery and way too much rub.

Firstly, going with hot water in filling the water pan was a huge improvement. Not sure why I kept seeing to use cool water, but hot is defintiely the way to go. Anyway, I used the Schoelfield "Championship" rub recipe, and coated the 7.5 lbs Costco brisket well on both sides, bagged it for 24 hours. I put the brisket right from the frig on the top rack - fat side up, and kept it pretty close to 225 at the grate the whole time. When it got to 160, it looked great - nice mahogany color and bark. I then wrapped it in aluminum fold, and ran it to 198 degrees. I started at 7:00AM and pulled it at 3:00PM, so it was exactly 8 hours. Seeing dinner was schedule for 5, when I took it off, I immediately wrapped it in a towel and stuck it in a cooler.

At 4:45PM, I removed the brisket, and unwrapped it on the cutting board, and noticed it was sitting in a pool of around 1/2 cup or more of juices, that was very strong due to the rub. It sliced well, but when I took a slice and pulled it, it seemed a little rubbery. Not terrible, but definitely not perfect but it was tender. However, the rub just totally overpowered it I thought.

I wonder if I should have pulled it at a lower temp, before wrapping it in the towel and cooler. It obviously continued to cook for some time. I also will cut way back on the rub, and just do a light sprinkling. I was also watching Aaron Franklins youtube video, and might try his Salt/Pepper only, and see how that goes.

That said, I just don't know what to make of the aluminum and volume of juices. I thought that would be a good think, but it basically destroyed the bark and left it looking like a foiled roast. The one thing I noticed on Franklins video was, he used some kind of a large brown heat resistant paper instead of foil. And when he opened it, while there were some juices saturating the paper, it wasn't like there was a volume of soup, and the brisket had a nice bark. Now he just pulled it and set it wrapped on a table for ~30 minutes, so perhaps that stopped the condensation factor, but I'm wondering if paper is the better route than aluminum? Franklin also ran at ~250 instead of 225.

A decent first attempt, but definitely needs some improvement, imho. Any thoughts or feedback?
 
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Aaron Franklin is using butcher paper in the video, I think it retains some of the moisture (similiar to foiling), but does not speed up the cooking the same way as foil. As far as pulling and wrapping in towel/cooler, next time let it rest for 15-30 minutes 1st before putting in cooler, will slow down/stop the cooking, but still keep it plenty hot enough for serving a few hours later.
 
Scott C. said:
... I wonder if I should have pulled it at a lower temp, before wrapping it in the towel and cooler....
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Scott,
In addition to what Brian said, temperature is not an indicator of 'tenderness'. Probe the meat. If the probe slides into and through the meat as if the meat were (soft) butter, then it's ready.
 
Brian_S said:
Aaron Franklin is using butcher paper in the video, I think it retains some of the moisture (similiar to foiling), but does not speed up the cooking the same way as foil. As far as pulling and wrapping in towel/cooler, next time let it rest for 15-30 minutes 1st before putting in cooler, will slow down/stop the cooking, but still keep it plenty hot enough for serving a few hours later.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, butcher paper! My wife said she thought it was parchment paper, but I worried about the wax in it screwing it up. I'll see if I can source butcher paper somewhere. I will definitely let it rest on a cutting block for a while before putting it on the cooler.


Bob Bass said:
Scott,
In addition to what Brian said, temperature is not an indicator of 'tenderness'. Probe the meat. If the probe slides into and through the meat as if the meat were (soft) butter, then it's ready.
Click to expand...

Bob, the problem is, I have no clue how to determine tenderness by feel, unless I'm eating it. I'll try the probe trick, but I thought it wasn't a good thing to pierce any meat, less risk losing the juices. next time, when it get to temp, I'll try it and see how that goes.

Thanks guys!
 
Scott as Bob said temperature should not be your doneness indicator, probe tender is the key. Secondly, by taking it off wrapped in foil and placing it in towels in the cooler it continued to cook and threw more liquid. In that process the bark never got the opportunity to harden back up. Next time, when you're hitting those high temps, try pulling it, unfoil it and continue to cook it to probe tender. This should harden up the bark then let it rest 20-30 minutes to stop the cooking process. Wrap it and place in towels to hold if necessary.
 
Yeah, not sure where you would buy it except amazon or a restaurant supply store. Perhaps a butcher would just give you some for a test run prior to ordering?
 
Not sure what you mean my rubbery. Brisket is usually dry and tough when under done and crumbles when sliced if over done.

You will learn what tenderness feels like with a toothpick with time grasshopper. It is like a stick of room temperature butter. Next time you do ribs and you think they are near done, probe between the bones at the end of the rack, then again in the middle. You will feel the difference. Then when the middle of the rack probes that way, your done!
 
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Scott,

It could have been the brisket itself. All meat is not created equal. Here is a narrative on brisket cooking I received in an e-mail from the guy I buy my rub from. It's pretty wordy but you might be able to glean some useful info from it.

"BBQ MADE SIMPLE"

A Subscriber based Opt-in Newsletter
From TexasBBQRub.com

For Those That Enjoy Cooking on Grills and Smokers


WHAT YOU WILL FIND IN THIS ISSUE OF BBQ MADE SIMPLE

1. How to keep your brisket from drying out
2. The Big Game is Coming - What to Cook for the Crowd
3. Texas Style Beef Brisket - In the Oven or on the pit
4. Simple Spiced Party Nuts
5. Message Board/Forum - Join us NOW, We would like you to participate


How to Keep Your Brisket from Drying Out during cooking

Has your brisket ever turned out dry?

Well don't feel alone because this seems to be the number one problem people have when it comes to cooking a brisket. There are a few things that you can do immediately to help keep your brisket moist during cooking. Here they are:

1. Cooking temperature is too high
2. Brisket trimmed of too much fat
3. Choosing a brisket that is too lean
4. Not cooking the brisket fat side down
5. Using a rub that dries out the meat instead of helping keep it moist as it cooks
6. Not adding a liquid to the brisket if you wrap it up

If you are cooking at temperatures above 250 degrees try cutting your cooking temperature down to 225 to 230 degrees. Higher cooking temps will actually drive moisture out of meat if you are cooking for extended times. And a brisket is one piece of meat that needs to cook over a long period of time to break down the collagen in them meat properly (thus giving you not only tenderness but more moisture). This adjustment will add cooking time to the brisket but the longer cooking times at lower temps will assist in keeping the brisket moist.

If you are trimming your brisket of the fat on the meat don't trim the brisket until after it has been cooked. The additional fat left on the brisket during cooking will provide a supply of moisture to the brisket as the fat renders during cooking. If you are cooking a flat or trimmed brisket then you can either add more fat to the brisket by draping some bacon over it during cooking or you may want to inject the brisket.

Choosing the right piece of meat will make a better tasting and a moister piece of cooked meat. Look for a brisket that has good marbling throughout the brisket. You will see lines of fat running with the grain in a nicely marbled brisket. You want that nice fat content in the brisket while it is cooking so it will keep moisture in the meat as the fat renders during cooking.

Cook the brisket with the fat down on your BBQ pit. This technique will protect the meat of the brisket during cooking as your heat will be coming from underneath the brisket. Put a line of defense (fat cap) between the meat in the brisket and the heat coming from your smoker. If you have not tried this do it with the next brisket you are going to cook and see the difference for yourself.

You have to use a BBQ rub that will not only give your brisket a great taste and form a nice flavorful bark on the meat but some rubs will actually dry out the meat. This usually is the case with rubs that contain too much salt and not enough sugar. Salt will actually remove moisture from the meat by pulling the moisture from the meat. Sugar will actually take moisture from the air and added back to the meat. The right combination of salts and sugars in a rub will actually help the meat maintain proper moisture in the meat.

If you are wrapping your brisket during the cooking process one of the keys to wrapping is actually adding some liquid to the meat and the foil wrapping to assist in the meat having some moisture to work with inside of the wrapping. The brisket will render some drippings from the rendering of fat and that will get caught in the wrapping but you need to give it some moisture to work with until the brisket actually begins rendering fat after it has been wrapped up. Use a liquid that will also add some flavor to the meat itself. Try Coke, Dr. Pepper, or a good beef broth flavored with some rub. These all work well with the brisket.

We are going to be doing a series of live webinars that talks about cooking a brisket so be looking for the email that gives you the details of the live webinars. It is not going to cost you a dime to attend.
 
Scott, it sounds to me like you should have cooked it longer. When I first started doing briskets, I was pulling them too early. The internal temp would be in the mid to high 190s and it would feel kind of tender. I would lose patience and take it off. The end result was usually tough and dry. But, I kept trying and learned the right time to pull them. When it is truly tender, the brisket will wobble, like Jello. The probe will go in as if you were sticking it in warm butter. And I know that every piece of meat is different and "its done when its done," but from my experiences, an internal temp of 203-205 usually gives me the results I want.
 
Lots of great stuff guys. I keep seeing that fat on top vs fat on bottom, and while it seems most of the TV Pitmaster guys do on top, this does seem to be pretty subjective. I guess I'll have to try it both ways.

On the finish temp, perhaps 198 was a little low so I'll try the jiggle and probe test next time. Either way, I will definitely not pull it and wrap it right away. I think that was the big problem.

I also don't like the loss of the bark, so I might pull it out of the foil around 195, and let it go for the last hour unwrapped, or at least have the wrap opened so the bark reforms.

On the patience thing, gosh I gotta tell you that Saturday was a LONG day! I got up at 6:00 to begin wrapping the pan, and getting things ready. I printed one of the Cooking logs, so I was doing that every 15 minutes, and while the temps did stay within 219 to 240, I worked hard to keep it within 220 to 230, adjusting the one open vent at the bottom 1/8 at a time. After dinner, I was so tired I pretty much passed out on the recliner!

Yesterday I bought a DigiQ, so with the ET-732 that'll take out alot of the constant tending, and will at least keep the cooking temp portion of the equation constant. That'll let me focus on adjusting the other elements one at a time so I can make some incremental improvements.

1. Less rub, or just salt an peper.
2. Foil at 160, but open or remove at 195.
3. Probe for doneness, but run a little higher than 198.
3. If it's done early, let set 1/2 before putting in the cooler.
4. If it's not done early, let set 20-30 minutes before cutting.
5. Don't let the wife catch me napping while she's cleaning my mess. At least find a a better hinding place.

Thanks guys!
 
Hi Scott,

Briskets are some of my most enjoyable cooks, both during and after (of course ... grin). A couple of thoughts for your list, if I may.

If you are looking for a good bark, wait until the stall fully develops before even thinking about foiling. Check that the bark has fully set.. use your fingernail to scrap the bark. If it will not scrap off, then it's ok to foil. If not, try again in another 15-20 minutes. When probing for tenderness, try in multiple locations. If not tender, try again in 15-30 minutes. Oh, and when probing, make sure you don't probe completely through the meat else those wonderful juices will escape ;)
 
Mostly great tips already posted and I'll try not to repeat others. Great observation on the hot water. If it was too much an inconvenience, I'd probably go dry and foil the pan. That leads me to your bark or lack thereof, and Bob makes a great point about checking it and not just going by color. I reitterate what he said because I've never gotten my brisket rub set, at least with water in the pan, if the meat is only at 160, no matter the cooking temp. Yes, A. Franklin (and M. Mixon) uses water pans and wraps, but consider that he uses offset smokers. These smokers have much faster air movement than a wsm, so they can use water to raise pit moisture, spritz, and wrap as well. The bark just takes a long time to set in a wsm with water in the pan, but that is a good thing if you're not going to wrap.

As for fat up or down, it may not be a big thing, but again, it comes down to different kinds of smokers. The fat is best toward the heat, which comes from below in a wsm, and across, in a offset, (higher temps ending up in upper part of smoking chamber since heat rises.)

Others posted great tips on how to nail doneness, so apply what was posted and realize that it takes lots of cooks and experience. You haven't cooked enough briskets or anything else, for that matter, until you've cooked a little too long. Also, I'd try cooking a little faster and finding larger packers if you can. I like to shoot for 250 at the grate.
 
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