The door gaps are "designed that way" - I had to share this

Having read many posts about the problems with the WSM doors, I did as was repeatedly suggested and contacted Weber.

Here is my email to them and theirs back to me.

If you have a view, please share it as I am looking forward to responding but thought I would keep my powder dry for a day or two.

By the way, I suspended the gauge over a pan of boiling water for 4 minutes with the probe fully submerged, I didn't plunge it into a half cooked chicken (read on to understand)

*** Mine to Weber

Hi, I took delivery of a WSM 57cm smoker today. Box arrived from TNT in good order without any visible sign of damage. After full assembly I noticed that the door, which had been previously fitted to the mid section, had large gaps between it and the middle section, especially on the left side where the gap measures 8mm.

I contacted the seller, Riverside Garden Centre and Russell there said it was a well known problem. Having read many WSM related forums over the last 10 hours I have read that this 'problem' has been known since 1999. I am also advised that an alternative supplier is making aftermarket door replacements and others still selling gasket kits to deal with the gaps. Surely it is not acceptable to knowingly allow this to go on without either forewarning or resolving the problems.

I then tested the temperature gauge and found that at 100c it only read 88c and my question is, why?

Can you remedy one or both of these issues as I do not want to use the unit if the fuel costs are going to be significantly impacted by lack of seals. I would in any case use heat probes to maintain control of the internal meat temps but even so, it would be extremely helpful to have a gauge that was something close to being accurate.

Thank you in anticipation, don't hesitate to contact me for more info.

Regards

*** Weber to me

Thank you for your email regarding your Weber Smokey Mountain.

I am sorry you were advised this to be a problem. I can confirm the gaps found in the door to the mid section of your smoker are not a fault and have been designed in that way. If you require you may take the door of and gently bend it round so it sits tighter against the main body of the smoker. This has been designed as such and does not effect the overall cooking performance of the smoker.

With regards to the temperature test, could I ask how you conducted the test in the first place. The Smokey Mountain has air vents located at the top and bottom of the unit, allowing a productive flow of air for a balanced smoking experience. The thermometer located on the lid checks the inside temp of the unit and not the meat itself as this would be impossible.

I can assure you the gaps in the door would not increase fuel costs in any way as the vents on this unit control air going into and out of the barbecue.

I hope this has shed some light on the matter.

If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact me. I will keep your case open until I receive a reply from yourself.

Thanks


Rehan.

I bought a used 18.5" WSM in 2009.
It's an older model with no thermometer in the lid
It came with, and still has, gaps in the door.
It has turned out some incredible barbecue, as-is, over the years, so I've never understood all the fret and worry about incorrect thermometers, and door gaps.
It has its flaws, just like me, maybe that's why we get along so well.

The door "has been designed in that way" in the sense that Weber did not invest in adequate modeling to produce a door that fits properly. Until Weber decides to come up with a better fitting door, your only solution is to consider gaskets and/or bending the door to adjust or buy an aftermarket door.

(As a side note, when the 22.5" cooker first came out, the door opening was square at the top, just like on the 18.5" model. But on the bigger cooker, that piece of metal would flatten out behind the door, exacerbating the gap between the body and the door. So they rounded the corners to minimize that flattening...but they still have an ill-fitting door.)

I don't expect the door to have a perfect seal...but it shouldn't stand 1/2" off the surface of the cooker, either, and I've seen plenty of units like that down at The Home Depot and Lowe's.

As for the thermometer, it's reasonable to expect it to measure within +/- a few degrees of the boiling point for your elevation. I feel like +/- 5* is acceptable for a non-instrument grade therm like this one. They should be willing to replace it if it's low by 12*C, assuming you know your boiling point.

However, I'm not surprised at the response you're getting from Weber UK. Whereas Weber US sends out warranty replacement parts quite freely to keep customers happy, it's my impression that's not so much the case on the other side of the pond.

http://virtualweberbullet.com/testing-thermometers-for-accuracy.html
http://virtualweberbullet.com/boilingpoint.html

Weber US is spot on. They must look at this forum because they saw or read where I melted my handle off my door and they wanted to replace it without being asked. I thanked them but declined, because the handle didn't melt off because of poor materials, it melted off because I abused my lil smoker (cooks exceeded 800 degrees) But to chime in with Bob, my smoker has leaked at the door since day one. The bottom line: Air has to get in there some how. So I just adjust the vents (on bottom) to get the temp I need and I don't worry for a second where the air comes from

Guess that's the trade off. Weber Europe gets cool stuff that isn't available in the USA, but we get better customer service.

I wonder how much of the resistance is a product of the customer's approach ?

The leaks have never bothered me. I guess part of it was the years of smoking on a New Braunsfel black diamond that leaked everywhere before moving up to a Weber. I got used to it and put out good BBQ. I've never felt the need to Nomex and seal up the WSM and have put out good BBQ as well. I will say however I switched from the stock door to the Cajun Bandit door but not because of leaks but because of the look. All 3 of my WSM have one. The Weber stock door looks like it belongs on an ECB where the CB door makes it look like the rest of the WSM made of high quality parts. Did the door help my cooking probably not but man it sure looks good.

Chris Allingham said:

The door "has been designed in that way" in the sense that Weber did not invest in adequate modeling to produce a door that fits properly. Until Weber decides to come up with a better fitting door, your only solution is to consider gaskets and/or bending the door to adjust or buy an aftermarket door.

(As a side note, when the 22.5" cooker first came out, the door opening was square at the top, just like on the 18.5" model. But on the bigger cooker, that piece of metal would flatten out behind the door, exacerbating the gap between the body and the door. So they rounded the corners to minimize that flattening...but they still have an ill-fitting door.)

I don't expect the door to have a perfect seal...but it shouldn't stand 1/2" off the surface of the cooker, either, and I've seen plenty of units like that down at The Home Depot and Lowe's.

As for the thermometer, it's reasonable to expect it to measure within +/- a few degrees of the boiling point for your elevation. I feel like +/- 5* is acceptable for a non-instrument grade therm like this one. They should be willing to replace it if it's low by 12*C, assuming you know your boiling point.

However, I'm not surprised at the response you're getting from Weber UK. Whereas Weber US sends out warranty replacement parts quite freely to keep customers happy, it's my impression that's not so much the case on the other side of the pond.

http://virtualweberbullet.com/testing-thermometers-for-accuracy.html
http://virtualweberbullet.com/boilingpoint.html

Click to expand...

Weber UK actually DO provide good customer service. I know personally of people who have had free replacement parts supplied. They possibly seem to be in a bit of a transition period as they merge with the various Weber entities in mainland Europe. I think we all agree the door could be MUCH better - but it is what it is until they change it.

Have you tried shaping it against the INSIDE of the middle section - might get you a better shape.

I bought a gasket kit from BBQgaskets.com I turned out good results with out the gasket but have been able to hold steadier temps with the gasket. What ever works for your cooker is the way to go but I am happy with my gasket!

I find it a bit disingenuous to say that the door is "designed" to have a gap as large as 8 mm. They could have just said that slight irregularities can occur due to the manufacturing process and given the same recommendation to gently bend the door to shape. The response you received reminds me of when some incompetent restaurant owner on Kitchen Nightmares tries to explain to Gordon Ramsay that the disgusting pile of &^$#&&*$ on the plate in front of him is "supposed to be that way." Please stop insulting the customer's intelligence.

Bob Correll said:

I bought a used 18.5" WSM in 2009.
It has its flaws, just like me, maybe that's why we get along so well.

Click to expand...

If that argument holds up Bob we should get along famously (being somewhat flawed myself)

Chris Allingham said:

I don't expect the door to have a perfect seal...but it shouldn't stand 1/2" off the surface of the cooker, either, and I've seen plenty of units like that down at The Home Depot and Lowe's.

As for the thermometer, it's reasonable to expect it to measure within +/- a few degrees of the boiling point for your elevation. I feel like +/- 5* is acceptable for a non-instrument grade therm like this one. They should be willing to replace it if it's low by 12*C, assuming you know your boiling point.

However, I'm not surprised at the response you're getting from Weber UK. Whereas Weber US sends out warranty replacement parts quite freely to keep customers happy, it's my impression that's not so much the case on the other side of the pond.

http://virtualweberbullet.com/testing-thermometers-for-accuracy.html
http://virtualweberbullet.com/boilingpoint.html

Click to expand...

Setting aside the arthritis I have in my right elbow, wrist and index and middle fingers, and the fact that I am right handed, even if I were fully able bodied I would not expect to have to try and bend sheet metal into shape or panel beat it unless I had been told at time of sale that this was expected of me (which obviously I wasn't.)

As far as the thermometer test, I am at 330ft above sea level from memory (I seem to recall checking this when checking out house insurance flood level risk stuff years ago. 11-12% variance is too much imho.)

ChuckO said:

Weber US is spot on. They must look at this forum because they saw or read where I melted my handle off my door and they wanted to replace it without being asked. I thanked them but declined, because the handle didn't melt off because of poor materials, it melted off because I abused my lil smoker (cooks exceeded 800 degrees) But to chime in with Bob, my smoker has leaked at the door since day one. The bottom line: Air has to get in there some how. So I just adjust the vents (on bottom) to get the temp I need and I don't worry for a second where the air comes from

Click to expand...

Sounds like they care about their customers and reputation your side. If it were my product, I sure as hell would read all related forums and try to stay on the right side of my reputation and future sales.

JBooker said:

Guess that's the trade off. Weber Europe gets cool stuff that isn't available in the USA, but we get better customer service.

Click to expand...

UK customer service has taken great strides in recent years (almost exclusively thanks to your influence tbh). When it falls over, it tends to be a person rather than a policy.

Dustin Flavell said:

I will say however I switched from the stock door to the Cajun Bandit door but not because of leaks but because of the look. Did the door help my cooking probably not but man it sure looks good.

Click to expand...

I am heading down that road and still waiting for a reply from BattleboxBBQ UK. That said, the general response I have gained from posts I have read is that it not only looks much better but it also knocks most of the gap issue out too.

Chris Arnold said:

Weber UK actually DO provide good customer service. I know personally of people who have had free replacement parts supplied. They possibly seem to be in a bit of a transition period as they merge with the various Weber entities in mainland Europe. I think we all agree the door could be MUCH better - but it is what it is until they change it. Have you tried shaping it against the INSIDE of the middle section - might get you a better shape.

Click to expand...

Limited dexterity and fear of breaking chunks of the finished surface off have held me back from trying yet (not to mention the worst storm since 2013 in recent days). Sun is due out tomorrow so will see what I can do.

Tommy B said:

I bought a gasket kit from BBQgaskets.com I turned out good results with out the gasket but have been able to hold steadier temps with the gasket. What ever works for your cooker is the way to go but I am happy with my gasket!

Click to expand...

I ordered some gasket tape and a tube of gloop from erm, Island Outdoor I think, to see if they would fix the gaps better than me bending/shaping but I did this before learning of the aftermarket replacements so might end up throwing some cash away but I am sure someone in UK will take it off my hands if I cannot use it.

YYang said:

I find it a bit disingenuous to say that the door is "designed" to have a gap as large as 8 mm. They could have just said that slight irregularities can occur due to the manufacturing process and given the same recommendation to gently bend the door to shape. The response you received reminds me of when some incompetent restaurant owner on Kitchen Nightmares tries to explain to Gordon Ramsay that the disgusting pile of &^$#&&*$ on the plate in front of him is "supposed to be that way." Please stop insulting the customer's intelligence.

Click to expand...

I remember the Nightmare prog, seem to recall it was an Italian place "that's the way I do it, its my own secret recipe, not written down", one of two brothers I think. Head in sand time.

Many thanks all for your responses. I'll try once again with Weber UK. I planned to buy 4 of these 22½" units but if I cannot get consistent results across several units due to variable airflow then I will buy a different product and use this one as a personal item. Having spent several years mastering sous vide cooking, my only variable there now is the level of seasoning and spice I use and the fat content of the meats. If the water baths came with twisted lids that let steam/water vapour out, then I simply wouldn't buy them. I'll share the end response from Weber UK when I get it.

"I planned to buy 4 of these 22½" units but if I cannot get consistent results across several units due to variable airflow then I will buy a different product and use this one as a personal item."

Sounds like a great reason for Championship BBQ Pitmaster here in the US to stay away from those WSMs !

One MUST keep in mind that BBQ isn't cooked on a Ronco device. Turning out Excellent BBQ takes knowledge and being true to BBQ, both of which are not controlled by nor supplied by the BBQ Pit, be it one that costs Tens of thousand of dollars or one that has been made from an unused metal trash contain. IT'S THE PITMASTER, NOT THE PIT !

Bob Bass said:

"I planned to buy 4 of these 22½" units but if I cannot get consistent results across several units due to variable airflow then I will buy a different product and use this one as a personal item."

Sounds like a great reason for Championship BBQ Pitmaster here in the US to stay away from those WSMs !

One MUST keep in mind that BBQ isn't cooked on a Ronco device. Turning out Excellent BBQ takes knowledge and being true to BBQ, both of which are not controlled by nor supplied by the BBQ Pit, be it one that costs Tens of thousand of dollars or one that has been made from an unused metal trash contain. IT'S THE PITMASTER, NOT THE PIT !

Click to expand...

Bob, I am 60 years of age but retired when I was 33, mainly due to an obsessive attention to detail in all that I did. I don't aim to be the best in BBQ but what I learn I intend sharing with, and instilling in, others who share my interest or work with me. The objective; to produce the best and most consistent quality outcomes that our combined know how allows, supported by equipment we know we can rely on. To that end, I aim to iron out any inconsistencies I can in equipment, but always seeing it for what it is, a tool.

So, we are basically the same age... I turn 66 this month. I too am retired but spend most of my day working in the BBQ world, mainly CBBQA with a couple of KCBS contests for good measure.
I can appreciate when someone begins their BBQ journey, as we all have been there at one time in our lives. Myself, that was almost 40 years ago.
I have had multiple smokers throughout those years, including one that I had put the blame on as to why I couldn't make good BBQ.
If I knew then what I know now (how many times have we heard that phrase...), I would have modified that smoker to make it work as I wanted !

The WSM is used by many TVWBB members, which includes many professional bbq teams. Based on the SUCCESS these people have with their WSMs, we can safely say the Weber WSM is an EXCELLENT BBQ PIT. Bottom line... I firmly believe you can count on the WSM to do "it's" job (provide "consistent quality" results) IF ... YOU... , the PITMASTER do yours ! Get to know how and why your pit works as it does. Get to know what to do when some upset happens, and there will be upsets. Get to know your meats, as cooked on the WSM and how they react to cooking.

BBQ can and should be ENJOYABLE, otherwise WHY would we get involved in BBQ !!!

My 18.5 inch unit had a small bump on one side of the door opening, and I managed to push it in so the door would fit better. I actually thought the door was bad, but the replacement door fit even worse, so that caused me to inspect the door opening itself.

My WSM is over 8 years old. The door has been stepped on among other things. I fix it as best I can and don't worry about it. The vents do their job. IMO, small gap is not a concern

Yep the doors leak.
Nope, it doesn't really matter.

I have seen some that really do have too much gap... Its a thin piece of aluminum that can be reshaped with a couple of pounds of force. Your not being asked to put a 90 degree kink it in, just gently flex large piece of thin aluminum.

Its part of the venting, and has been accounted for in the design. At the end of the day, top of the line smokers are going to run a few thousand dollars. You spent ~$400. Weber could do a lot more work and make all the fits flawless, but it works great with the little leaks because air needs in and out anyways, it cuts a lot of cost and still works great.

Yes, it does introduce some variability between units...
And yes, reading the temperature at the top with the stock gauge is not the same as reading it at grate level.
At the end of the day, that internal temperature range and variance in temp and location is going to be there even in a smoker costing multiple thousands of dollars, and have fun buying and returning model after model of smoker if you think your going to find something in the $400 dollar range that will produce identical temps with identical vent settings.
At the end of the day, your starting 4 fires and expecting each one to burn identical? Good luck. The dryness of the fuel, the amount of fuel lit and unlit, the air allowed to it, hell the geometry of the pile will ALL have an effect. The type of fuel will have an effect. From one piece of wood/coal/piece of lump there will be differences.
Your going to have to pay A LOT more and still deal with some inconsistency, learn how to actually manage a pit, or just move on... Don't read that as mean, its really the nature of cooking with a live fire, its a dynamic and changing thing.

For you demands you basically need a temp controller, or perhaps look into a pellet smoker. Both will still have different temperature readings depending on where you take them.

I like this thread.
Mine wsm has same issue
But over time the BBQ gunk has filled them in. Still leaks but I'm ok with it.

Look forward to seeing more post from you.

Bob Bass said:

So, we are basically the same age... I turn 66 this month. I too am retired but spend most of my day working in the BBQ world, mainly CBBQA with a couple of KCBS contests for good measure.
I can appreciate when someone begins their BBQ journey, as we all have been there at one time in our lives. Myself, that was almost 40 years ago.
I have had multiple smokers throughout those years, including one that I had put the blame on as to why I couldn't make good BBQ.
If I knew then what I know now (how many times have we heard that phrase...), I would have modified that smoker to make it work as I wanted !

The WSM is used by many TVWBB members, which includes many professional bbq teams. Based on the SUCCESS these people have with their WSMs, we can safely say the Weber WSM is an EXCELLENT BBQ PIT. Bottom line... I firmly believe you can count on the WSM to do "it's" job (provide "consistent quality" results) IF ... YOU... , the PITMASTER do yours ! Get to know how and why your pit works as it does. Get to know what to do when some upset happens, and there will be upsets. Get to know your meats, as cooked on the WSM and how they react to cooking.

BBQ can and should be ENJOYABLE, otherwise WHY would we get involved in BBQ !!!

Click to expand...

I should have mentioned Bob that I too have 40 years of bbq in many guises. I have used big brick built (by me) open grills with lump and briq, many gas units that dump all the gunk onto the burner, gas with lava rock (which I quite like), kettles, beach rock pits (Scotland), cave log fires (Isle of Mann) and numerous variations from impromptu cooking fires at Reading Festival to baking salmon in bonfire embers.

But my only experience of ‘smoking’ was as a fireman aged 18-22 in London (until the union called a strike and I had to find other work as I had exchanged contracts to buy a house – lousy timing). In those days we used to go into buildings and put them out, before health and safety finally said that we were no longer allowed to come out smoking. Those were the days!

The one thing that all this taught me is, whatever you know, or think you know, the next fire and the next piece of meat will always be a challenge to get right, and will be almost impossible to turn out perfectly.

Here’s a question for you (or anyone)

If meat takes its smoke mostly in the first couple of hours and not much past about 135f or so (discuss), have any of you taken meat off at this point, vacuum packed it, and transferred it to a sous vide until perfectly tender/juicy and then seared the final piece on griddle/plate or with a torch to build the crust/flavour?

I am hoping to experiment with this at the weekend, possibly with a whole brisket (split into flat and point and only transferring the point to the sous vide to take up to about 175 and leave the flat in the smoker at lower temp to compare the results. Anyone have advice about other cuts, approaches or successes I would be keen to hear the ideas.

Sean R said:

Yep the doors leak.
Nope, it doesn't really matter.

I have seen some that really do have too much gap... Its a thin piece of aluminum that can be reshaped with a couple of pounds of force. Your not being asked to put a 90 degree kink it in, just gently flex large piece of thin aluminum.

Its part of the venting, and has been accounted for in the design. At the end of the day, top of the line smokers are going to run a few thousand dollars. You spent ~$400. Weber could do a lot more work and make all the fits flawless, but it works great with the little leaks because air needs in and out anyways, it cuts a lot of cost and still works great.

Yes, it does introduce some variability between units...
And yes, reading the temperature at the top with the stock gauge is not the same as reading it at grate level.
At the end of the day, that internal temperature range and variance in temp and location is going to be there even in a smoker costing multiple thousands of dollars, and have fun buying and returning model after model of smoker if you think your going to find something in the $400 dollar range that will produce identical temps with identical vent settings.
At the end of the day, your starting 4 fires and expecting each one to burn identical? Good luck. The dryness of the fuel, the amount of fuel lit and unlit, the air allowed to it, hell the geometry of the pile will ALL have an effect. The type of fuel will have an effect. From one piece of wood/coal/piece of lump there will be differences.
Your going to have to pay A LOT more and still deal with some inconsistency, learn how to actually manage a pit, or just move on... Don't read that as mean, its really the nature of cooking with a live fire, its a dynamic and changing thing.

For you demands you basically need a temp controller, or perhaps look into a pellet smoker. Both will still have different temperature readings depending on where you take them.

Click to expand...

You make solid points Sean. As I am in a steep learning curve with smoking and Weber kit I aim to control what I can, learn about what I can't and then assemble some stuff that produces as near a consistent result as I am capable of. It may be that WSM smoking becomes like BBQ for me, something I do for fun rather than with business in mind. With sous vide I can nail a perfect outcome every time now across a wide array of meats, cuts joints etc but I would love to integrate smoking into that somehow, especially if I cannot control the WSM outcomes as finely.