Overslept ... but still gotta cook!


 

Rick Kramer

TVWBB All-Star
I'm taking spares over to the in-laws today. Problem is I overslept by about an hour. I've got six StL cut spares. I'm going to try and get them done in as close to 4 hours as possible. Using my FE100 I'll be cooking at 275*. I'm thinking 2 hours on the grate, 1 hour in foil, and hopefully 1 more hour on the grate. Think it'll work? Should I go a little longer in the foil?

What juice do most y'all prefer when foiling? I've got pineapple and grape. Can/should I reduce the liquids leftover from the foiling process, and add it to my glaze?

If all else fails, we can be LAU ... "Late As Usual"
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If they're StL-cut I think you'll probably be okay if they didn't start off huge to begin with.

My preference is to cook longer outside of the foil then to cook till just done in the foil. A few minutes outside of the foil to re-set the bark texture and, rarely, to set glaze, follows that.

I use a pineapple-tamarind mix quite often so my suggestion would be straight pineapple. I find grape too sweet and too flat for use with meat. I add juices from the foil to the sauce pot and then reduce from there. You certainly can reduce the juices to add to your glaze or you can make a glaze based on the juices, whichever you prefer.
 
I was wondering about that (when to foil). This is only the second time I've used foil and with my first attempt I did a 3-1-1 method (@ 275*) with some skimpy spares. They really didn't need that last hour so I cut it short. They were still overdone, IMO.

The in-laws do have a gasser. I could glaze some of the slabs over there if need be. I actually prefer that idea over glazing then holding.

Not knowing the safety part of using leftover liquids. I figured I had to cook or reduce the juices just to get out any possible "bad stuff", such as raw meat juice. I guess the meat is done enough at that point that it's not an issue?
 
Here's the new plan: Cook at 275* for 3 hrs, swapping & rotating the grates at the 1.5 mark. After 3 hrs I'll foil (w/pineapple juice) for an hour. I'll then transport for 1.5 hrs to my destination. Using their gasser, I'll then tighten and possibly glaze them.

Here's a method for foiling multiple slabs at one time that I got from TVWB member and current Jack Daniels champion Scottie Johnson. Take a full size pan, place a rack or some crumpled foil in the the bottom of the pan. Add juice, then stand up to 10 slabs of ribs in the pan and cover with foil. Works very well! Not necessarily recommended for competition style ribs.
 
I prefer getting very deep color on the ribs before foiling and then wrapping and letting the juice mix in the foil do essentially a finishing braise. I do not find that much time is needed to re-firm the meat and re-set the bark at all--just a few min at higher temps and this is not long enough to overcook the meat. A thin veneer of glaze siezes in moments and the ribs can be pulled or another layer of glaze applied.

I'd reheat/glaze at the in-laws.

The juices you add to the foil cook in the foil. They pasteurize at simmer temps (which they overshoot) rather quickly. Still, mixing them into a glaze which you then heat either before its use on the meat or from its use on the meat would pasteurize as well.

Make sure you test the ribs after half your planned foil time has passed to get an idea of their closeness to done. Timing is best based on the needs of the meat rather than the clock, as you know.

If necessary, transport still foiled and packed in towels and a cooler (there will be residual cooking) then test when you arrive at the in-laws. (A call to them 15 min or so before you arrive with a reminder to get the gasser going would mean it would be well-heated and ready to go when you arrived.) They can go still foiled directly into the gasser if a bit more foil time is needed or, if done or near done, can be unwrapped, placed in the gasser to get hot and firmer for a few min, then glazed.
 
Kevin, thanks for the pasteurization info. Does that hold true for drippings that have been accumulated from the very start of a cook? How do I say this(?) uh, hmmmm ... drippings that has had blood in it from the raw meat. Classy, huh? I guess it depends on how hot and how long you cook said drippings. Is there a guideline to what is safe and what is not? Am I making this more complicated than need be?

According to everyone at the party the ribs were fantastic! I happen to know they were overdone, but still better than my first attempt. I think the 1.5 hrs in the cooler did them in. The ribs were still steaming when I opened them up and I had a tough time keeping them from falling apart as I transferred the whole slabs from pan to grill to cutting board. The taste was superb! I learned a lot from this cook. Thanks for your help.

And just so you diehard VWB fans don't think I'm a traitor for cooking on an FE and asking for advice here, remember ... just tweak the time, temps, and methods we've discussed to suit your own cooking style and cooker. Then your results can be even better than mine were.
 
Rick - good to hear it worked out. Wish I had seen this string earlier, when you were in need of help. I'd have recommended you boil the ribs for about two hours before putting on the cooker
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!

Honestly, we learned at a contest this year that you can blast ribs pretty hard if you have to. We did some very large back ribs (St. Louis size actually) in a little less than 4 hours. Was a local rib burn. First they told us to prepare for a third turn-in. Well it never came about, and I was none too happy about it. Long story short, you can get them plenty done in 4 hours. And you of all people should know that overdone ribs served to a crowd will please them every time...I'm sure it was the sauce anyway
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'd have recommended you boil the ribs for about two hours before putting on the cooker
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</div></BLOCKQUOTE> Quite the funny fellow there ChickenMan!
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But you know, between your comment and Kevin's "finishing braise" comment, I got to thinking (uh oh). Most of us brag or claim we don't boil or braise our ribs. But when using the foil and liquid method isn't that exactly what we're doing? Just wonderin'

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm sure it was the sauce anyway
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</div></BLOCKQUOTE> That, and the rub of course!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But you know, between your comment and Kevin's "finishing braise" comment, I got to thinking (uh oh). Most of us brag or claim we don't boil or braise our ribs. But when using the foil and liquid method isn't that exactly what we're doing? Just wonderin' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BLASPHEMY, just plain BLASPHEMY. Its a "tool" to make great BBQ...braising in foil...who would have every heard of such a ridiculous statement among BBQ purists? You're uttering pure blasphemy...accusing good bbqers of braising their meat...AND your cooking on a pellet mucher too. Geez Rick where will it end
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?!!

(Just in case, my tongue is firmly planted in cheek here)
 
Pasteurization is a process of 'time @ temp', i.e., when a product reaches and is held at a particular temp for a period of time. I recently posted an example in another thread that is germane in this circumstance as well. Hamburgers, e.g., are considered safe when cooked to 155 and held for 15 seconds, or 150 for 1 minute, or 145 for 3 minutes--the reduction of bacteria is the same in each case.

Important to note: Pasteurization is not sterilization which wipes out everything. Pasteurization is meant to reduce pathogenic bacteria to safe levels (this is called a log reduction) so that the number is substantially reduced and thus unlikely to cause disease. Food is not generally sterilized because sterilization negatively affects flavors.

So, drippings in the pan are effectively pasteurized rather quickly at usual cook temps. So long as the temp of the contents of the drip pan reach or exceed minimum safe finish temps (lower temps for a longer time, usually minutes, higher temps for shorter, usually seconds) the drippings achieve an adequate log reduction in pathogenic bacteria and are safe. This also occurs when juices from one meat drip onto another below and is why, contrary to conventional wisdom, it is not unsafe to cook chicken over another meat. So long as the meat below is cooked to safe temps there is little to worry about.

While I am on the subject: As noted, effective pasteurization achieves, usually, at least a 5-log reduction in existing pathogens (the number of bacteria times .00001). It does not wipe everything out but the food is considered safe to eat, and is, if eaten within a reasonable period of time--depending on who you ask, the 2-hour or 4-hour limit rule. Pathogenic bacteria that survive will not have enough time to reproduce to unsafe levels if the food is consumed within this time period and that is the reason for the time limit. Additionally, there are some bacteria that survive cooking that produce spores. Spore production is triggered by heat and outgrowth of the spores occurs significantly, depending on the bacteria in question, at temps below 130. This is the reason for the 140 upper limit of the danger zone and is why holding food above this upper limit and, if cooking food destined to be reheated later, cooling quickly are important. If temps are allowed to drop into the zone of 70-120 (but especially 90-115) for too long significant bacterial growth can occur that reheating will not control.

Yes (removing Joe's tongue from his cheek
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), when using foil and a liquid one is adding a braising phase. It can be argued that even if one isn't adding any liquid that since the meat being foiled usually releases moisture into the foil it, also, is a braising phase.
 
Pellets .... foil .... chicken over pork ... what's next? Real time, in-pit camera coverage? Geez!!!
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I love getting Joey fired up!
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Thanks for the great info Kev, that comes in real handy.

Hey guys, I would've responded sooner but between my PC playing it's on again/off again game and then getting caught up in that ice storm (no power for 6 days!) we've been out of the online loop. We're just now getting things back in order ... if that's what you want call it. Man, it's good to be home!
 

 

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