Bill Freiberger
TVWBB All-Star
Is it necessary to wash meat after it is removed from Cryovac? Is it more sanitary? Does it wash away flavor? Is it completely neutral?
Any thoughts?
Bill
Any thoughts?
Bill
Do you wash Cryovac meat before you cook it?
- Thread starter Bill Freiberger
- Start date
Jeff Bittel
TVWBB Fan
When in doubt wash. And I always wash meat that was previously handled by people I don't know.
Steve Cole
TVWBB Super Fan
I wash cryovac meat.
Craig Castille
TVWBB Wizard
A light rinse for ribs. Briskets and butts no rinse.
Steve Abrams
TVWBB Pro
Is it necessary? Probably not but I usually rinse off the meat.
David Munson
TVWBB Super Fan
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Any thoughts?
Bill </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yea. Rinse it. I do. Best case is that you are removing some of the injected pickle. Any doubt that there is a injected brine?
Worst case is for something going wrong in packaging and something smears the meat. While the metal detectors should prevent metal contamination, food grade grease and any plastic parts will get through as well as any small bone chips or other non-edible contamination.
Any one else here work for a major (Tyson, Hormel, Smithfield, etc)? I worked for Hormel.
see http://www.deliciousdays.com/archives/2007/01/16/neat-meat-follow-up/
Bill </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yea. Rinse it. I do. Best case is that you are removing some of the injected pickle. Any doubt that there is a injected brine?
Worst case is for something going wrong in packaging and something smears the meat. While the metal detectors should prevent metal contamination, food grade grease and any plastic parts will get through as well as any small bone chips or other non-edible contamination.
Any one else here work for a major (Tyson, Hormel, Smithfield, etc)? I worked for Hormel.
see http://www.deliciousdays.com/archives/2007/01/16/neat-meat-follow-up/
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Well, since I do not buy injected meats then, yes, it is doubtful there is brine. Bone chips are visible, generally, and drying the meat with paper towels is likely to remove them. (I don't find their possibility much of a concern.) Whatever might 'smear' on the meat is unlikely to be removed by rinsing.
Bacterial contamination of intact red meat cuts, if any, will be dealt with by cooking. But bacteria can easily be spread by the act of rinsing--this is especially true with poultry cuts as their Salmonella and Campylobacter counts must be assumed to be significant. Though cooking will reduce these bacteria to safe levels if not eliminate them entirely, rinsing poultry can spread bacteria in and around the sink area as water droplets bounce off the poultry, picking up bacteria as they do, and contaminate the area. With kitchen ambient temps in a perfect range for rapid growth, these bacteria can grow quickly, setting the stage for near perfect cross-contamination potential.
From the link: "And last but not least: I double checked with random cookbooks of mine and was not surprised to find many of them containing instructions to not only wash fish, seafood and poultry, but all kinds of meat. Some of the ones I picked out are very successful basic cookbooks, others written by star-awarded chefs. Which again proves one thing: There appears to be a general lack of common knowledge when it comes to rinsing meat (either way) - do chefs care or do they not?"
Wrong question. The question is not do they care? the question is do they have a clear understanding of food safety? Most often, the answer to that question is no.
There is nothing 'wrong' with rinsing intact red meat cuts--I simply see no reason to do so and so I only dry them. Rinsing poutry should not be done unless the entire sink/counter area is immediately cleaned after rinsing as the cross-contamination potential becomes high if one does so. I simply dry poultry as well, then wash my hands.
Bacterial contamination of intact red meat cuts, if any, will be dealt with by cooking. But bacteria can easily be spread by the act of rinsing--this is especially true with poultry cuts as their Salmonella and Campylobacter counts must be assumed to be significant. Though cooking will reduce these bacteria to safe levels if not eliminate them entirely, rinsing poultry can spread bacteria in and around the sink area as water droplets bounce off the poultry, picking up bacteria as they do, and contaminate the area. With kitchen ambient temps in a perfect range for rapid growth, these bacteria can grow quickly, setting the stage for near perfect cross-contamination potential.
From the link: "And last but not least: I double checked with random cookbooks of mine and was not surprised to find many of them containing instructions to not only wash fish, seafood and poultry, but all kinds of meat. Some of the ones I picked out are very successful basic cookbooks, others written by star-awarded chefs. Which again proves one thing: There appears to be a general lack of common knowledge when it comes to rinsing meat (either way) - do chefs care or do they not?"
Wrong question. The question is not do they care? the question is do they have a clear understanding of food safety? Most often, the answer to that question is no.
There is nothing 'wrong' with rinsing intact red meat cuts--I simply see no reason to do so and so I only dry them. Rinsing poutry should not be done unless the entire sink/counter area is immediately cleaned after rinsing as the cross-contamination potential becomes high if one does so. I simply dry poultry as well, then wash my hands.
Bill Freiberger
TVWBB All-Star
A lot of great answers and I'm still as confused as ever. lol.
Thanks for the input.
Bill
Thanks for the input.
Bill
David Munson
TVWBB Super Fan
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
Well, since I do not buy injected meats then... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have not seen much cryovac meat that is not injected. Locally, -they- stopped labeling how much added stuff is in the package. Better for the rub if -it- is rinsed off. I think there is a lot of "value" in removing the slimy watery injection stuff prior to the rub or meat prep.
What I usually do for cryovaced butts, ribs or briskets is: Rinse in the (clean) sink. Put it on a cookie sheet or metal bowl and put the rub on. On the smoker / cooker. While cooking, clean and re-sterilize the kitchen sink, food prep area and utensils.
The big problem is not that rinsing is a bad idea. It is that most people do not know how to sterilize, have the tools to do so (simple bleach solution) and use good disciplined food preparation techniques.
Sorry for the confusion Bill. The sad truth is that juice in the cryovac package is bad. It should not get on your kitchen counter because it will spread bacteria.
Well, since I do not buy injected meats then... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have not seen much cryovac meat that is not injected. Locally, -they- stopped labeling how much added stuff is in the package. Better for the rub if -it- is rinsed off. I think there is a lot of "value" in removing the slimy watery injection stuff prior to the rub or meat prep.
What I usually do for cryovaced butts, ribs or briskets is: Rinse in the (clean) sink. Put it on a cookie sheet or metal bowl and put the rub on. On the smoker / cooker. While cooking, clean and re-sterilize the kitchen sink, food prep area and utensils.
The big problem is not that rinsing is a bad idea. It is that most people do not know how to sterilize, have the tools to do so (simple bleach solution) and use good disciplined food preparation techniques.
Sorry for the confusion Bill. The sad truth is that juice in the cryovac package is bad. It should not get on your kitchen counter because it will spread bacteria.
Bill Freiberger
TVWBB All-Star
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by David Munson:
Sorry for the confusion Bill. The sad truth is that juice in the cryovac package is bad. It should not get on your kitchen counter because it will spread bacteria. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don't worry, I was confused long before I started this thread. And I do always clean the sink and counter tops with clorox and water. My question was aimed at whether safety required that I wash the brisket before cooking.
Bill
Sorry for the confusion Bill. The sad truth is that juice in the cryovac package is bad. It should not get on your kitchen counter because it will spread bacteria. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don't worry, I was confused long before I started this thread. And I do always clean the sink and counter tops with clorox and water. My question was aimed at whether safety required that I wash the brisket before cooking.
Bill
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Though I agree that meat juices from packaging shouldn't get on the counter they are not necessarily 'bad'. The exception to this is poultry juice, especially those of chicken. Odors from cryo'd meats are due to the restricted atmosphere in the packaging not from pathogenic bacteria that might be present--which are odorless anyway. Though I agree that it is right to assume the presence of pathogens I simply pat dry. If you wish to rinse that's your choice. They are killed/reduced during cooking.
I avoid the use of bleach in food prep areas as there are many problems with its use. First, like with most other anti-bacterial products, that which is to be sterilized must be cleaned first. If not, organic compounds on the surfaces render the bleach ineffective as it ties up the availalble chlorine. Unless available free chlorine is adequate the bleach solution will not disinfect. Another problem is that unless the Ph of the water used to make the solution is right, the bleach solution will be ineffective. Many city water systems alkalinize their water so as to prevent leaching in lead-soldered joints. A Ph of 8.5 renders a bleach solution only 10% effective. The smell of bleach does not mean it's 'working'.
If you know your water is neutral-acidic and wish to use a bleach solution then note that a 50ppm solution is adequate; one does not need a stronger (200ppm) solution as is often recommended. A 50ppm solution is made by mixinh just 1 teaspoon of 5% bleach into one gallon of water. Wash the surface first, then apply the bleach solution and allow to sit several minutes, then rinse very well.
I don't like using bleach around food contact surfaces nor around food. Effective disinfection can be had by washing the surfaces in question then applying a spray of white vinegar followed by a spray of 3% hydrogen peroxide and allowing to sit several minutes before rinsing OR by using a simple solution of 1 cup of distilled white vinegar mixed with 1 gallon of water (and following the same procedure). Chlorine is known carcinogen. I don't use it in a kitchen for anything, diluted or not.
I avoid the use of bleach in food prep areas as there are many problems with its use. First, like with most other anti-bacterial products, that which is to be sterilized must be cleaned first. If not, organic compounds on the surfaces render the bleach ineffective as it ties up the availalble chlorine. Unless available free chlorine is adequate the bleach solution will not disinfect. Another problem is that unless the Ph of the water used to make the solution is right, the bleach solution will be ineffective. Many city water systems alkalinize their water so as to prevent leaching in lead-soldered joints. A Ph of 8.5 renders a bleach solution only 10% effective. The smell of bleach does not mean it's 'working'.
If you know your water is neutral-acidic and wish to use a bleach solution then note that a 50ppm solution is adequate; one does not need a stronger (200ppm) solution as is often recommended. A 50ppm solution is made by mixinh just 1 teaspoon of 5% bleach into one gallon of water. Wash the surface first, then apply the bleach solution and allow to sit several minutes, then rinse very well.
I don't like using bleach around food contact surfaces nor around food. Effective disinfection can be had by washing the surfaces in question then applying a spray of white vinegar followed by a spray of 3% hydrogen peroxide and allowing to sit several minutes before rinsing OR by using a simple solution of 1 cup of distilled white vinegar mixed with 1 gallon of water (and following the same procedure). Chlorine is known carcinogen. I don't use it in a kitchen for anything, diluted or not.
Bob Hunter
TVWBB Pro
Awesome read Kevin, thanks for the link.
Jeff T Miller
TVWBB All-Star
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Locally, -they- stopped labeling how much added stuff is in the package. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sounds to me you have a law suit at hand. I believe it is illegal to sell injected meat and not label it as such on the package. Someone correct me if I am wrong. I know I would be quite mad if someone was selling me salt water with my meat without telling me. I don't buy injected meat. The only exception to that has been turkey.
Another no rinse here. I used to rinse then I noticed the drops of water hitting the meat then going onto the counter. The cleanup for me raised the hassle factor.
Sounds to me you have a law suit at hand. I believe it is illegal to sell injected meat and not label it as such on the package. Someone correct me if I am wrong. I know I would be quite mad if someone was selling me salt water with my meat without telling me. I don't buy injected meat. The only exception to that has been turkey.
Another no rinse here. I used to rinse then I noticed the drops of water hitting the meat then going onto the counter. The cleanup for me raised the hassle factor.
Jerry N.
TVWBB Emerald Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
I don't like using bleach around food contact surfaces nor around food. Effective disinfection can be had by washing the surfaces in question then applying a spray of white vinegar followed by a spray of 3% hydrogen peroxide and allowing to sit several minutes before rinsing OR by using a simple solution of 1 cup of distilled white vinegar mixed with 1 gallon of water (and following the same procedure). Chlorine is known carcinogen. I don't use it in a kitchen for anything, diluted or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but all I use is hot water and soap and I don't think I've ever made myself or a member of my family sick from poor handling of raw meat. I don't doubt that spraying and soaking, and wiping is a good thing, I just don't know how necessary it is. When I'm doing prep, I just make sure the counter is clean then when I'm done I rinse and wash with soapy water. I've always just made sure I keep my hands clean and the towels I use don't get left in the kitchen. So far, so good.
I don't like using bleach around food contact surfaces nor around food. Effective disinfection can be had by washing the surfaces in question then applying a spray of white vinegar followed by a spray of 3% hydrogen peroxide and allowing to sit several minutes before rinsing OR by using a simple solution of 1 cup of distilled white vinegar mixed with 1 gallon of water (and following the same procedure). Chlorine is known carcinogen. I don't use it in a kitchen for anything, diluted or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but all I use is hot water and soap and I don't think I've ever made myself or a member of my family sick from poor handling of raw meat. I don't doubt that spraying and soaking, and wiping is a good thing, I just don't know how necessary it is. When I'm doing prep, I just make sure the counter is clean then when I'm done I rinse and wash with soapy water. I've always just made sure I keep my hands clean and the towels I use don't get left in the kitchen. So far, so good.