Weber needs to make one of these!

[Jon Tofte]

The Little Pellet Kettle That Could!

A while back, i finally caved and bought this funky pellet kettle grill made by a company called Landmann. I believe that were sold through Sam’s a few years ago. I got this from a guy who mainly sells discontinued furniture out of a small store. It was listed a long time but the final price was hard to pass up.

I know it may be hard to keep this thing running, but for $140 I figured it could be a throwaway grill and still be worth it. Yes it is kind of ugly, and probably not the most robustly built grill in the world, although the stainless shield inside is pretty heavy duty.




The only competition for this pellet kettle I know of is Recteq’s Bullseye. While the Bullseye wins for better looks, a stainless body, and strong customer support, this Landmann has some features it does not.

Tops on that list is a grease drainage system with a nice catch pan with handle underneath. The Bullseye has no drainage and relies on grease being incinerated.

The other big plus is that the round shield has a rotating part that opens to allow more direct heat from the firebox for direct heat grilling. This is similar to Camp Chef’s sliding shield.



So, I finally put this thing to the test earlier this week, grilling some burgers. It took a little while, but the grill topped 500 degrees and did a respectable job of high heat searing, while the pellets made a very good flavor:





TO BE CONTINUED…

 

[Jon Tofte]

PART TWO

The Little Pellet Kettle to the Rescue

We had a mini family reunion Saturday, so I was slated for making bbq pork shoulders, the perfect job for my Recteq RT-700 Bill. Unfortunately, for the first time in over three years of using my Recteq, it let me down with a failed igniter. So I was in a bind. After having worked all day in and out of the house getting ready for company, I was not in the frame of mind to tend a charcoal fire all night long using one of my kettles.

So, I thought about it and decided to see what my Landmann pellet kettle could do. Two 8lb pork shoulders fit just right, and I set it up at 230 degrees. The Landmann has two meat probe ports (only one probe included) but no WiFi. I pulled out my Thermoworks Smoke, using one of the the small but handy fold down side shelves, and put the receiver by my bedside. The alarm beeped about 4:30 AM as my internal temperatures were hitting 160. I adjusted that up to 165 and laid back down on the couch. Around 6AM it was time to wrap and the first moment of truth. I was very pleasantly surprised to see a really nice bark from my Dizzy Pig Crossroads rub:



I wrapped it up and went back to bed. After 13 hours the shoulders were ready, but I lowered the temp to stretch things out before removing and resting the foil-wrapped mystery packages in a cardboard box covered by an old towel.

2 hours later came the moment of truth as I opened them up to see what I had. Just about perfect, very moist and super tender pork ready to easily shred with just barbecue gloves:





I certainly didn’t expect this kind of performance from an off-brand pellet grill I got on the cheap, but I was greatly relieved that it saved the day for our reunion.

So this thing can do great low and slow along with high heat grilling. I definitely noted temperature swings of 20 to 30 degrees. I also noticed, though, that when it would try to get back up to the set temperature you got another waive of great smoke. I understand that the “high smoke” setting on the SmokeFire and some other pellet grills actually use temperature swings to create this very effect. Seeing (and eating) these results makes me question whether we should be so hung up on having a grill that stays perfectly fixed at one set temperature.

I can’t understand why Weber - the creator of the kettle grill - hasn’t brought out a pellet kettle. If they are working on one, they should take note of the grease management and direct fire access that this “lesser” brand kettle offers.

It seems to me a Performer body could be fairly easily adapted to become a perfect pellet kettle and that Weber could have a real hit on their hands if they did it well.

 

[Rich Dahl]

Nice write up Jon. Glad it worked out for you; the pork looks terrific.
Ahd for sure sigh me up for a Weber pellet grill in a performer body, Oh yeah I'd be on that like ugly on an ape...all over it.

 

[Jon Tofte]

Forgot to post a picture of the actual grill:

 

[Lew Newby]

Very informative John. I agree with you on the temp swings. I don't see how you can have heat and smoke without them. My ambient probe shows them on my Smokefires while the controller shows a constant temp. I saw the same thing on my Rec Tec and Camp Chef. A pretty savvy guy told me that PID controllers on pellet grills work within a range and , as long as temp stays within that box, the controller shows set temp.

 

[Jon Tofte]

That’s pretty interesting about the controller not the displayed temperature. This non-PID pellet kettle freely showed changing temperatures. The variation over time was within reasonable bounds to me, and the results clearly proved to me that they were fine.

I have to be honest and say this cheap pellet kettle may well have made the best pork shoulders I have ever done.

 

[Bruce]

That is pretty cool Jon.
I do think that Weber could probably come up with a Performer version of a pellet grill, but I just wonder if they are worried that it might take a lot of sales away from the Smokefire line. I think Weber is probably having enough problem with just competition from other companies.

 

[Rich Dahl]

As much as I love my Camp Chef and even though it's only a 24" it is bigger than I need in 90% of the cooks I do on it.
A dual use grill that grills and smokes in a performer format would be ideal for just the two of us. I really think that would appeal to a lot more people than a single purpose grill. Plus, a lot of people just want one grill not a herd of special purpose grills.
Even though my Camp Chef can do high heat cooks I never use it for that as the gassers and performer do that with a lot less fuss that the CC..
If Weber could keep the cost reasonable, I think a lot of folks who would like to put their toes in the water of smoking would buy one.
That could also help the sales of the SmokeFire if the people that bought a performer style grill/smoker wanted to move up to a more dedicated smoker.

 

[Bruce]

Rich, I think that might be the issue right there. A lot of people are like you and don't want to have to have a whole fleet of grills to do all of their cooking. If they have the kettle style pellet grill, most would probably not opt for a Smokefire as well. Some would, but I don't think it would increase Smokefire sales. In fact, it might take away a larger portion of the Smokefire sales by being a less expensive option.

How is Weber doing with the Smokefire's? Are they still having strong sales after being out for a few years now?

 

[Rich Dahl]

Very informative John. I agree with you on the temp swings. I don't see how you can have heat and smoke without them. My ambient probe shows them on my Smokefires while the controller shows a constant temp. I saw the same thing on my Rec Tec and Camp Chef. A pretty savvy guy told me that PID controllers on pellet grills work within a range and , as long as temp stays within that box, the controller shows set temp.

My Camp Chef doesn't have remote monitoring, so I use my Smoke to monitor it. It does show a 15–20-degree swing. But the controller on the CC shows the set temperature. At first that bothered me, so I called Camp Chef and they told me what you stated, that was normal. As long as it stayed within its range the controller would show the set temp.

 

[Bruce]

That sounds reasonable Rich. I imagine buyers would freek out if they saw fluctuating temps more than a few degrees which would result in a lot of calls to C/S and possibly even disappointed/upset customers. What they don't know, won't hurt 'em.

 

[Rich Dahl]

Rich, I think that might be the issue right there. A lot of people are like you and don't want to have to have a whole fleet of grills to do all of their cooking. If they have the kettle style pellet grill, most would probably not opt for a Smokefire as well. Some would, but I don't think it would increase Smokefire sales. In fact, it might take away a larger portion of the Smokefire sales by being a less expensive option.

How is Weber doing with the Smokefire's? Are they still having strong sales after being out for a few years now?

You might be right Bruce, not everyone gets the itch to move up.
I can't say how the Smokefires are selling as no stores around here carry them anymore. At least not Home Depot, Lowes, Ace, True Value, Tractor Supply. Haven't seen one for sale in about a year or more now.

 

[Bruce]

Yah, it doesn't seem like they are getting a lot of floor space these days. That is why I was wondering about their sales. If that line does go the way of the CharQ and the Weber Flame where they only made and sold them for a few years, maybe they would explore replacing it with a kettle style pellet cooker using some of the information and experience they gleaned from the Smokefire run.

EDIT: I just looked on Amazon and it looks like their prices are up $200-$300 from when they first released them.

 

[Tony-Chicago]

A lot of auto temperature gauges were changed to also read one setting as long as inside a box.
Cut down on a lot of cs calls.

 

[Jon Tofte]

I can't believe that the SmokeFire is much of a sales success for Weber. I know Recteq sells all their grills directly, but they advertise that heavily. I would think most people looking for a Weber expect to find one at the big box stores or their local Ace. Having apparently lost that floor space, things have to be somewhat hard for Weber. A pellet kettle could be a great way to get back into the pellet grill market.

It doesn't seem to hurt Recteq to offer a variety of conventional pellet grills AND the Bullseye, their pellet kettle. In fact, they market the Bullseye and as a "weekday warrior" companion to their larger pellet grill models.

This Landmann I got so cheap is definitely an odd duck, but if I got the same results from a Weber pellet kettle I would for sure be touting it. I guess I will enjoy my Landmann for however long the ride lasts. It certainly has started out strong for me!

 

[Bruce]

Jon, I am glad you got a great deal on that grill and it seems to be worth every penny plus.
It does look like you can still buy the Smokefire through Lowes and Home Depot. Probably ACE as well, but you have to order it. But not having them on the floor, or at least a demo grill on the floor, is a big deal. I am sure that being able to touch and play with the grill and ask questions about it at the store would be a huge selling factor. But, obviously, the stores are not willing to allocate space for them on the floor which leads me to believe they are just not selling all that well.
I do think Pellet grills are hear to stay and will be a growing segment of the grill market for years to come. Weber probably knows they have to stay relevant in the market or risk getting shut out. It will be interesting to see what they do over the next several years. Maybe even a significant redesign of the Smokefire? Kind of like the Genesis 1000 to Silver B leap or the Silver B to E3xx leap. The only problem is that the Genesis 1000's and Silver B's were already well established and highly successful products at the time. The Smokefire is not up to those standards by any means and may not be a platform that Weber wants to build off of.

 

[Bruce]

Jon, on a side note. How does the Landman actually control the temp? Is it strictly through how much pellets it drops into the burner or does it also regulate air flow in some way?

 

[Jon Tofte]

I think Weber is in a dilemma having to decide whether to reinvest in the SmokeFire beyond the very limited refresh they did with the "Stealth" edition, or just start over. On one side, they have invested a lot in that name, and in spite of way too many teething pains, it has shown that it can produce really great bbq when everything is working. On the other hand, Lowes - and maybe some other retailers - I think felt very burned (sorry!) by their experience with the SmokeFire. Meanwhile, it also accumulated a lot of bad early reviews on the internet (much not really deserved). So, I find it hard to believe that Weber can get that floor space back with a SmokeFIre II or some other close variant. Maybe a total restart with a new name?

Still, this is where a pellet kettle would be such a great way for Weber to get back in the game quicker.

My Landmann does have a fan and some kind of controller - just not a higher end PID one. It regulates the pellet flow and fan application not unlike my Recteq. It just doesn't keep the temperatures as steady. Of course, based on what Lew posted I may have been tricked all this time that my Recteq was sticking within a degree or two of the set point by believing the controller readout!

 

[Rick P]

Very informative John. I agree with you on the temp swings. I don't see how you can have heat and smoke without them. My ambient probe shows them on my Smokefires while the controller shows a constant temp. I saw the same thing on my Rec Tec and Camp Chef. A pretty savvy guy told me that PID controllers on pellet grills work within a range and , as long as temp stays within that box, the controller shows set temp.

Electric ovens do the same thing.

 

[Lew Newby]

I'm not a marketing nor corporate guy so my guesses are just based on what I see happening. Since May of 2020 the online reviews on the Smokefire have flipped from 80% negative to at least 80% positive. I just read an online review of the EPX4 Stealth and it was very positive. It had a lot of erroneous info just like the bad reviews of 2020. It's on a site called Tech Advisor and the author displays a very shallow knowledge of pellet grills and the Smokefire. I'm sure Weber would rather have that than what they received in 2020. Our one Facebook group has almost 7000 members and growing steadily. I may be wrong but I think Weber has weathered the storm and will continue the line.

The Landmann demonstrates what a pellet kettle can be. Because the kettle is what started Weber Stevens Inc. I suspect that in a year or two the Bullseye and Landmann are going to have Weber competition. Just an old fart's wild *** guess. No inside info..