Tough Ribs


 
L

Les Stubby

TVWBB Fan
I've tried all sorts of methods cooking ribs and am still not satisfied so yesterday i thought I'd use the 3 2 1 method to assure that the ribs wouuld be fall of the bone. The ribs were regular, not baby backs. i removed the membrane and added rub and cooked on the WSM for three hours at 240 degrees. I then foiled the ribs and added a little apple jiuce and cooked for just shy of 2 hours, after which I used some home made sauce and finished for almost and hour. I then foiled the ribs and left in a warm oven until dinner time, about an hour later. The ribs were not tender at all. What appreciate anyones' thoughts about what I could be doing wrong. Have had great luck with Chicken and Boston Butt-still working on a perfect brisket.

Another thought-my smoker kept the 240 degree temp with all bottom vents closed-is that a problem?

Les Stubby
 
First guess is that your therm is inaccurate and temps were much lower. This would result in tough ribs because they would be undercooked.

It would also explain 240 temps with all lower vents closed.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Les Stubby:
I've tried all sorts of methods cooking ribs and am still not satisfied so yesterday i thought I'd use the 3 2 1 method to assure that the ribs wouuld be fall of the bone. The ribs were regular, not baby backs. i removed the membrane and added rub and cooked on the WSM for three hours at 240 degrees. I then foiled the ribs and added a little apple jiuce and cooked for just shy of 2 hours, after which I used some home made sauce and finished for almost and hour. I then foiled the ribs and left in a warm oven until dinner time, about an hour later. The ribs were not tender at all. What appreciate anyones' thoughts about what I could be doing wrong. Have had great luck with Chicken and Boston Butt-still working on a perfect brisket.

Another thought-my smoker kept the 240 degree temp with all bottom vents closed-is that a problem?

Les Stubby </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Les,
Timing is just a guideline for cooks, but after six hours the ribs should have been somewhat tender. Your temps at the dome sounds fine as well, which leads me to ask "have you checked your thermometers accuracy?
 
For probe types, in boiling water and in ice water, depending on the low end of the therm reading.
 
Hey Les - gottat agree with the experts up thread. Those ribs sounded under cooked. But what strikes me as odd is that the fire must have been really low. So AFA calibrating the therms/tools you use for measuring temps, sure you need to do that. It's hard for me to believe though that all of them were off at the same time at so wide a deviance. 6 hours when the there was also good amount of time when they were foiled (so sort of braising if you will) "should" have eliminated any problems with temp measurement.

This leaves me to guess that the fire was not burning anywhere near as hot as you expected.

Spares should be pretty much done in 6-8 hours (just rule of thumb) so there has got to be something significant about the fire you were burning, the fuel, airflow, quantity of fuel, etc that is also a root cause.

Typically we use too much fuel and burn too hot at the start. How much fuel and what type were you using? Minion, full lit?
 
Just put both probes in boiling water, one read 212 and the other 210. Back to the drawing board. Any other sugestions. The meat came from a very reputable butcher at a downtown farm market although the other slab which I slow cooked in an oven was tough also. I'm at a loss.

Les

Thanks again for all the help-this board is great.
 
Used a whole ring of briquets (sp?) and minnioned it with a half chimney of lump. At least half of the briquets were left over. But the thermomemter seems to be accurate. It's a maverick.

Les
 
Pork simply is not 'tough' no matter where it is from. Tough means undercooked. (It can also mean overcooked but that tends to read as 'dry', not tough. Differences in semantics can cause confusion here though.)

First, where are you positioning your probe? (Be as precise as possible.)

Second, for the oven one, what temp and how did you cook (roasted, braised, foiled or covered pan)?

Third, for each, did you ever test either for tenderness at any point before removing from the cooker/oven?
 
Kevin

The probe was placed on the top grate next to the ribs.

The oven ribs were slow cooked in foil, as it was raining and my WSM is not covered. Then I tossed them on my grill to finish them. I've had lots of luck cooking tough or low quality meats in the stove for long times and at low heat,

And lastly, I didn't think in either case the meat looked done, or at least falling off the bone done. Can ribs be overcooked?

Thanks much for your help-I'm determined to master this. Enjoy the holiday.

Les Stubby
 
Kevin

Forgot one part-the owen ribs were foiled and were cooking at around 250 to 275. We have a stove which holds temps extremely well.

Les
 
I have never been very happy with my ribs on the WSM. Butts are great, but my ribs always are a little tough and dry. I've cooked them in my Weber gasser at similar time and temps (6hrs 200-225) with great results. Not sure why but I never can replicate the results in the WSM.
 
Tough meats that one cooks to tenderness should not be cooked by time.

Yes, ribs can be overcooked and not at all falling of the bone. If cooking is slow and there is significan moisture loss because of this (common), then ribs can overcook and dry out and not release from the bone. Low and slow is fine, lower and slower is not better.

Ribs should be checked for tenderness. Visual cues (like meat receding from the bone ends) might give you a cue to check--and time spent in the cooker might give you a cue to check--but ribs should be tested for tenderness. It is really only then that you will know what's what. A probe will insert between the bones effortlessly when ribs are just done.

If your butcher's ribs are from typical commercial sources, Les, then they should cook 'normally'. If they are not, if they are from heritage breed, pastured pork that is allowed to nicely fatten, or in any other way fattened by non-commercial means, they will cook the same but will take longer to become tender.
 
Kevin

Think that checking the ribs is the answer. Also appreciate the clarification that ribs can be overdone and not fall off of the bone. Thanks for your help and thanks for the advice of other posters. Salmon on the grill tonight-don't think I can screw that up.

Cheers

Les Stubby
 
Derek,
Ribs can be tough for me, more so, spares/st. louis. maybe thats by quincidence though, but you could try cooking higher temps. I seem to have more problems w/ ribs then briskit! Ussually I hear the opposite. but its only those darn spares...
 
I do what Kevin described and never had a problem. Just stick a toothpick in them and when it goes in easy they're done, the only thing the clock tells you is when it's time to start testing them.
 
My $.02: you must get the meat temparature to 195F. At that point, the collagen and connective tissue between the meat and the bones breaks down, which creates the "falling off the bone" tenderness that we so seek.

Think of "parboiling" which uses water to create heat transfer at of course 212, which achieves the falling off the bone tenderness.

When I started 'qing several years ago, I worked very hard on my Weber to maintain a temp of 225-250 on my lid thermometer. After several attempts w/ ribs, I nearly gave up doing them I was so disappointed because of the toughness. But eventually I realized the problem: I was not 'qing quite hot enough.

The foil and applejuice is a modified form of parboiling and adding flavor.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Tough meats that one cooks to tenderness should not be cooked by time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
When they are done, they are done: remember you can tell by how they "break" when you grab one with tongs. If properly tender, the unsupported half will break and bend/collapse. If not yet hot enough, the full slab will remain straight.

Use a thermometer stuck into the meat, and shoot for 195.
 
Collagen and connective tissue start to break down at temps much lower than 195. Time is what is required and the length of time is determined by the cut of meat and cooktemp. Babybacks cooked at high heat, e.g., 325, the temp I use, will hit 195 quickly--but they won't be done.
 
My main cue is the meat pulling back from the bone. If I want some juice or add some flavor or xtra tender I will foil for a little while. Most of the time I can tear a rib off pull a bone out or when I lift with tongs the start to rip in the middle. Check them a little sooner some time you may cook hotter than you think the ribd will tell you when the are done they seen to be pretty forgiving even on the kettle. I don't know my ribs just cook a little quicker and don't seem to take 6 hours.
 
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