Packer. Fat side up or down ?


 
Bob Sample

Bob Sample

TVWBB Diamond Member
I've cooked quite a few whole packers and always cook them low and slow with the fat side up thinking as the fat renders it will help keep the meat moist. As I've been reading through the forum I see a lot of people are cooking fat side down. What do you feel are the benefits/drawbacks to cooking fat side down/up . Honestly I've never had a problem keeping my brisket nice and juicy, guess I've been lucky so far.

Cheers
 
Bob good ? for debate, i guess there really is know rite or wrong way of cooking a brisket some prefer fat side up some prefer fat side down.
All the brisket's i have cooked have always been fat side up have never had a problem, as for the melting fat keeping the meat moist i really do not know, what i do know is that the melting fat will not hurt the meat.
One thing u have to remember with any cut of meat is the fat give's meat most of its flavor.
 
As I use High Heat for my briskets, I go fat-down until I foil it to help prevent overdoing the bark on the bottom. The fat helps protect from the higher heat. Then I cook fat-up duing the foil portion of time.
 
Noe, I'm kind of a "if it ain't broke don't mess with it" kind of guy. I'm just curious about what the guru's have to say about it. I've learned bbqing by trial and error and have a good grasp of my methods, I only discovered this board a few months ago,but I'm always willing to try something new. Especially when the new things come from people who know what they are talking about.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Curt:
As I use High Heat for my briskets, I go fat-down until I foil it to help prevent overdoing the bark on the bottom. The fat helps protect from the higher heat. Then I cook fat-up duing the foil portion of time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So what your saying is you go both ways?
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bob Sample:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Curt:
As I use High Heat for my briskets, I go fat-down until I foil it to help prevent overdoing the bark on the bottom. The fat helps protect from the higher heat. Then I cook fat-up duing the foil portion of time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So what your saying is you go both ways?
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</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mama raised me to be open minded.
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I too cook mine fat side down as I usually go high heat and use that fat layer for a little protection. IMO, fat side up doesn't help retain moisture. Fat and moisture in my book are 2 different things. Fat is fat and moisture is water. Dry meat is generally a result of over cooking. Also, IMO beef fat renders diffently than say pork fat does; so even after a long cook, you can still have plenty of fat on a brisket.

Paul
 
My favorite way to cook a brisket on the wsm is on the bottom rack, under a couple of pork butts, low-n-slow. Since the area outside the pan is pretty hot, I prefer the fat on the bottom to help protect the ends of the brisket. I'm smoking a 16 pounder like this in a week or so, and I'll use a roasting/rib rack to cradle the brisket so the ends will be up higher away from the heat.
 
Fat side down to protect the meat side from over-barking. I don't really think the fat cap renders into the meat as much as over it and into the pan.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James Harvey:
Fat side down to protect the meat side from over-barking. I don't really think the fat cap renders into the meat as much as over it and into the pan. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've always had the understanding that when cooking low and slow the meat goes through sweating and absorbing cycles thus it will absorb flavour and juice from the fat cap.
Perhaps one of the more experienced guys can elaborate on this.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I too cook mine fat side down as I usually go high heat and use that fat layer for a little protection. IMO, fat side up doesn't help retain moisture. Fat and moisture in my book are 2 different things. Fat is fat and moisture is water. Dry meat is generally a result of over cooking. Also, IMO beef fat renders diffently than say pork fat does; so even after a long cook, you can still have plenty of fat on a brisket. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right On!

I'm about 95% in agreement. I also believe that fat doesn't help retain moisture and that pork and beef fat render differently. However, marbling (not fat cap) can be important determining factor in the final perception of moistness (but that is not pertinent to the discussion).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I've always had the understanding that when cooking low and slow the meat goes through sweating and absorbing cycles thus it will absorb flavour and juice from the fat cap. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree. I would think that heat is constantly increasing and therefore the meat is continually "sweating" (internal moisture is expanding outward) and not until the meat comes off the heat will it start to draw moisture inwards as it cools. This fact supports the idea of a rest.

The meat will sweat until its exhausted its supply of internal moisture. This partly explains the plateau: as long as the meat "sweats" the surface is moist and evaporative cooling slows the rate of warming. The meat warms faster (breaks plateau) once it stops sweating.

Beef muscle is relatively dense and not really suited for absorption of any kind.
 
Well I'm going to have to find out where I read about the sweating and absorbing,it was quite a while ago that I read that so god knows with the way my mind is these days it could have come to me in a dream. I remember it was part of an explanation of how your rub flavours and penetrates the meat during the cook.
So it seems the HH people cook it fat side down to protect the meat from over cooking on the bottom side. In a low and slow cook it probably doesn't matter so much fat up or down except for the ends near the edge.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I would think that heat is constantly increasing and therefore the meat is continually "sweating" (internal moisture is expanding outward) and not until the meat comes off the heat will it start to draw moisture inwards as it cools. This fact supports the idea of a rest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Correct.

I cook fat down the entire time - out of foil or in. I cook briskets at high heat - but when I used to low/slow them I cooked fat down as well, to avoid the rub on the leaner side from rubbing off on the grate.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bob Sample:
Well I'm going to have to find out where I read about the sweating and absorbing,it was quite a while ago that I read that so god knows with the way my mind is these days it could have come to me in a dream. I remember it was part of an explanation of how your rub flavours and penetrates the meat during the cook.
So it seems the HH people cook it fat side down to protect the meat from over cooking on the bottom side. In a low and slow cook it probably doesn't matter so much fat up or down except for the ends near the edge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since this is a site dedicated to cooking on the WSM, I'd say that protecting the "the (brisket) ends near the edge" is a pretty big deal, ESPECIALLY if your brisket is on the bottom rack under pork butt(s), how it oughta be.
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Ya'll gotta try this. You can have the best tastin' brisket bark you ever put in your mouth. No, it doesn't taste like bacon, and no, it wasn't my idea. I first read about it in a Keri C. post from a while back, and I also read on BBQ Dan's website how he regularly cooks butts and briskets this way. Another benefit is that the brisket will get less smoke than the butts.

Oh, I doubt the sweating and absorbing bit came to ya in a dream. Mike Mills mentions it as the reasoning behind spritzing and sprinkling ribs w/ rub in his book, "Peace, Love, and BBQ". Mopping or spritzing can help in adding flavor and keeping the bark from being tough, but stopping the cooking process at the right time is the main thing in moisture retention, as J so aptly points out.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Mike Mills mentions it as the reasoning behind spritzing and sprinkling ribs w/ rub in his book, "Peace, Love, and BBQ". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
But it's bogus nevertheless. Just like 'searing 'seals in juices' and numerous other erroneous claims, just because someone writes it - even publishes it - doesn't mean it's true.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Well I'm going to have to find out where I read about the sweating and absorbing,it was quite a while ago that I read that so god knows with the way my mind is these days it could have come to me in a dream. I remember it was part of an explanation of how your rub flavours and penetrates the meat during the cook. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

here's a pretty intense discussion regard Mike Mills' infamous rib sweat:

http://tvwbb.com/eve/forums/a/...=470104213#470104213

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> So it seems the HH people cook it fat side down to protect the meat from over cooking on the bottom side. In a low and slow cook it probably doesn't matter so much fat up or down except for the ends near the edge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A ha! we all know HH people are vastly more informed and therefore must be cooking brisket properly. One cannot take seriously anything a L/S'er does
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Like someone else posted, I cook fat side down until it hits a plateau around 160. Then I wrap the brisket in foil fat side up with a little beef broth and cook to 190. This has worked very well for me.
 
Well **** I guess I never should have cooked a brisket in the first place without knowing the science of it all. Guess I'll go back to babybacks and shoulders.

Ok it was Mike Mills that wrote about sweating and absorption,yes I read the thread,yes I own the book,and what he said makes a lot of sense if you don't take what he said to literally. Give the guy a break he's a restaurateur,and BBQ champion, not a rocket scientist key thing being BBQ champion. Don't most of us cook through observation and feel? Every Noob who asks "what temperature should I pull my pork at" gets the same answer,Its not the temperature its the FEEL of it that tells you when it's done

Once a meat starts to sweat and the "pores" open it allows a migration path for your rub or mop or sauce or whatever to be absorbed into the meat. Liquid doesn't always go one way, It's usually a two way street and yes water can run uphill, that's how it goes up between the lip of a container and the lid you thought was water proof and gets the interior wet or if you are into white water canoeing think of eddies in the rapids. They flow upstream all the time.

Next brisket I'm cooking fat side down to see if there is much of a difference. I'm still going to let the ends get a little over done, but I'll just chop em up and use em in chili or stew like I usually do.
 
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