Neapolitan pizza 🍕 dough, old school style


 

Brett-EDH

TVWBB Guru
A purists version of the dough. Spent the past week diving deeper and deeper into the pizza abyss.

Will it work? We’re going to find out soon.

Will be cooking this directly on my steel with a target temp of the steel at 645° average temp.

I’ve got 4 pies to experiment with here. At least one might come out right 😂😭😀💪

Each ball is around 248g. Targeting a 12” pie.

Caputo red 00 600g
Cold water 372g
Morton’s kosher salt 18g
ADY 4.2g- if you can’t measure 4.2 then measure 4g and add a pinch

Combine all ingredients except the flour and incorporate.

Then add the flour into a workbowl, I used a KA mixer, and used the dough hook to create a shaggy dough (water incorporated but not well mixed)

Insert dough hook and knead on lowest setting for 10 mins.

Remove dough hook and tightly cover the dough in mixing bowl. Let’s stand and rest at room temp 8-12 hours.

Our house was warm today, 79°, so I let the dough proof for 7 hours until I could see it was spongy and had nice air bubbles.

Very lightly oil your proofing containers and lids.

Roll each 248g ball until your balls are shiny and smooth. Yup. I just wrote that.

Cover and tightly seal each container. Place in fridge to proof for minimum 2 days, maximum 4 days.

More to come when I get to Tuesday.

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Brett-EDH

TVWBB Guru
Ah, the pizza rabbit hole. I know it all too well.

Welcome to the never-ending quest for the perfect crust.
I’ve worked a NY style dough for years and am happy with that recipe. This is true old school, Neapolitan, with zero dough enhancement. Just straight flour, water, salt and yeast. The yeast has to eat the flour to proof and ferment.

It’ll be interesting to see how the E6 handles this. I know the steel will radiate good heat, and the lower temp of 645° steel should allow for an even cook.

But who knows. Tuesday will hopefully be a good start. I’ve taken good notes on my end to know what I’m working with for any future changes.

Wish me luck. I’m going to need it.
 

Rich G

TVWBB Platinum Member
Should have made the balls 249g! :) Looks good from here, Brett, will be interested to see how they turn out with the E6/steel setup!

R
 

Brett-EDH

TVWBB Guru
Should have made the balls 249g! :) Looks good from here, Brett, will be interested to see how they turn out with the E6/steel setup!

R
We were debating for hours, 247 or 248 or 249. 248 won after we polled the family 5x.

It was really just the math and percentages. 600g flour made all the ratios simple and easy. Although I did use my scale to get my balls evenly sized.

The key from my abyss reading was enhancers hurt the dough when making Neapolitan. Sugar or oil causes the dough to brown/burn too quickly if I’m not using an Ooni or similar oven 700-900° which turn out pies in 60 seconds.

My cook should be longer, 3.5-4.5 minutes. We shall see. I’m in experimental mode on this cook.
 

DanHoo

TVWBB Emerald Member
We were debating for hours, 247 or 248 or 249. 248 won after we polled the family 5x.
(600 + 372 + 18 + 4.2 ) / 4 = 248.55 g

Don't we usually round up?

Then factor in:
additional weight due to "lightly oiling"
loss in weight due to evaporation
loss due to some dough stuck to the bowl

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Brett-EDH

TVWBB Guru
Any preference for type of oil? I normally use whatever EVOO I have on hand.
costco's standard organic EVOO. i used, literally, 3 drops of oil per container. i use these squeeze bottles in the kitchen as they make life much easier. and i use them for homemade bbq sauces (Salt Lick is one bottle I've been keeping around the fridge.


the oil is just a release agent so the dough will pop out of the container. in my reading, adding oil, sugar, or honey into dough burned the dough when working above 550 degree temps (NY Style pizza is a 550 degree oven) and on longer cooks than traditional Neapolitan.

Neapolitan dough requires higher heat to get the dough to "pop" or poof, quickly. So using enhancers will burn the dough (bottom, mostly) before the top has time to cook.

The red Caputo (Chef's flour) is rated for 500-600 degree ovens, but specifically, it is a long ferment dough (2-4 days) which both develops gluten structure (elasticity) and creates a natural crunch while being airy inside (trapped carbon dioxide, yeast byproducts) when cooking.

Caputo Blue is rated 700-900 degrees (wood fired pizza ovens or backyard Ooni types) and is a short ferment dough, 24 hours, and has less protein than red bag (12.5 vs 13%) and is really for Neapolitan high temp cooks (60-90 seconds, and used in high hydration recipes, 65-70%). That high hydration, high temps and short cooking window creates a steam burst inside the dough when cooking thus the very poofy and floppy nature of Neapolitan traditional pizza.

yes, i'm deep into the abyss right now. trying to get the E6, steel, temps and wood just right so I can easily replicate this cook and deliver a near perfect pizza. next step will be getting some of that white oak i have into smaller kindling/strips so i can add it to the coals to get the right smoke level without driving additional temp inside the cooker.

i figured since you're on this journey, and with the E6, more deets are helpful versus less deets. thus i submit these early pages of my dissertation for your consideration and digestion.
 

Rich G

TVWBB Platinum Member
costco's standard organic EVOO. i used, literally, 3 drops of oil per container. i use these squeeze bottles in the kitchen as they make life much easier. and i use them for homemade bbq sauces (Salt Lick is one bottle I've been keeping around the fridge.


the oil is just a release agent so the dough will pop out of the container. in my reading, adding oil, sugar, or honey into dough burned the dough when working above 550 degree temps (NY Style pizza is a 550 degree oven) and on longer cooks than traditional Neapolitan.

Neapolitan dough requires higher heat to get the dough to "pop" or poof, quickly. So using enhancers will burn the dough (bottom, mostly) before the top has time to cook.

The red Caputo (Chef's flour) is rated for 500-600 degree ovens, but specifically, it is a long ferment dough (2-4 days) which both develops gluten structure (elasticity) and creates a natural crunch while being airy inside (trapped carbon dioxide, yeast byproducts) when cooking.

Caputo Blue is rated 700-900 degrees (wood fired pizza ovens or backyard Ooni types) and is a short ferment dough, 24 hours, and has less protein than red bag (12.5 vs 13%) and is really for Neapolitan high temp cooks (60-90 seconds, and used in high hydration recipes, 65-70%). That high hydration, high temps and short cooking window creates a steam burst inside the dough when cooking thus the very poofy and floppy nature of Neapolitan traditional pizza.

yes, i'm deep into the abyss right now. trying to get the E6, steel, temps and wood just right so I can easily replicate this cook and deliver a near perfect pizza. next step will be getting some of that white oak i have into smaller kindling/strips so i can add it to the coals to get the right smoke level without driving additional temp inside the cooker.

i figured since you're on this journey, and with the E6, more deets are helpful versus less deets. thus i submit these early pages of my dissertation for your consideration and digestion.
You know what happens when you dive too deeply, and you don't have enough air in your tank to get back to the surface.....? 🤣🤣

Geeking out on pizza is a noble endeavor, Brett! Always something new to learn, always something new to try! Looking forward to you sharing some of your adventures......I got lost in the pizzamaking.com abyss a few years back.....I got lucky and found my way home! ;)

BTW, I'm on my first bag of Caputo Blue, having used the red bag for the past few years. You can really feel the protein difference when making the same dough. I have not, however, felt the need to up the hydration from my ~63% that I am at (minus oil residue from bowls/containers) versus when I used the red bag. Of course, I'm still mixing 50/50 with AP, so that may not hold true if I got with 100% Caputo Blue. You can tell that it has a stronger gluten development though, reminiscent of bread flour vs AP flour (gross generalization, I know, since no two brands of either are alike!) Like I said, fun to play! :)

R
 

Brett-EDH

TVWBB Guru
You know what happens when you dive too deeply, and you don't have enough air in your tank to get back to the surface.....? 🤣🤣

Geeking out on pizza is a noble endeavor, Brett! Always something new to learn, always something new to try! Looking forward to you sharing some of your adventures......I got lost in the pizzamaking.com abyss a few years back.....I got lucky and found my way home! ;)

BTW, I'm on my first bag of Caputo Blue, having used the red bag for the past few years. You can really feel the protein difference when making the same dough. I have not, however, felt the need to up the hydration from my ~63% that I am at (minus oil residue from bowls/containers) versus when I used the red bag. Of course, I'm still mixing 50/50 with AP, so that may not hold true if I got with 100% Caputo Blue. You can tell that it has a stronger gluten development though, reminiscent of bread flour vs AP flour (gross generalization, I know, since no two brands of either are alike!) Like I said, fun to play! :)

R
i've never fully left pizzamaking.com. i've floated through it for years now. and have also branched off to other places to see and read more about actual cooks.

what's really changed for me was moving to steel from stone and doing this in the E6. it's been a big difference. the steel radiates heat much more than stone. stone loses heat each time a pizza sits on the stone, thus lowering the cook temp. the E6 cooks very differently than my home oven and my Summit 670.

so far i've learned that the steel can decimate pizza easily when too hot. and can make a nice pizza at moderate temps (650 average) but still using a screen.

going naked, without the screen is this step and road i'm on now, concurrently moving to a Neapolitan style pizza versus NY modified Neapolitan.

my current batch expectation is to get a more bread-like dough, think outside or crisp crust, with the supple chewiness of classic Neapolitan.

on your red to blue switch, and your cooking temps, i don't think you need to up your hydration. it won't get you to a new result or better result, IMO. the higher hydrations, from my reading, is really for very hot ovens, 60-90 second cooks. the higher hydration protects the flour from burning. and the blue bag will get you a softer and chewier crust (from reading, i haven't used blue, yet, or ever will).

i'd be curious to see your results from 100% 00, either blue or red. when i've used AP flour (ordinary AP flour) the pizzas had little to no body. pizzas were missing the chew and bite. i just didn't like the texture at all.

growing up in NY, i had my fair share of pizza. not that i'm in search of replicating that, only, but to get to a dough where we can have friends over, make a bunch of pies in less than 5 mins a pie, drink some wine and just enjoy the weather. that's really the goal here. just excellent home pizzas that rival most retail pizzas.

i thank the gods i am not growing wine grapes. boy oh boy, that would be a cluster *** for me. i'd wind up divorced.
 

Rich G

TVWBB Platinum Member
on your red to blue switch, and your cooking temps, i don't think you need to up your hydration. it won't get you to a new result or better result, IMO. the higher hydrations, from my reading, is really for very hot ovens, 60-90 second cooks. the higher hydration protects the flour from burning. and the blue bag will get you a softer and chewier crust (from reading, i haven't used blue, yet, or ever will).
One of the things I want to try with the GMG oven is some higher temps, as I'm pretty sure I can get the stone to 850° or more (we'll see.....) Mostly just to try and compare to what I do now. I'm also formulating my dough to work with my SD starter with my current flour blend, and maybe an all 00 version, too. Again, just to try it out to see if it's an improvement, or if it's just more variables with little to no improvement.

I'm with you on the desired result.....repeatable dough that you can use to make better pies than you are likely to order (or want to pay for.) :)

R
 

Brett-EDH

TVWBB Guru
One of the things I want to try with the GMG oven is some higher temps, as I'm pretty sure I can get the stone to 850° or more (we'll see.....) Mostly just to try and compare to what I do now. I'm also formulating my dough to work with my SD starter with my current flour blend, and maybe an all 00 version, too. Again, just to try it out to see if it's an improvement, or if it's just more variables with little to no improvement.

I'm with you on the desired result.....repeatable dough that you can use to make better pies than you are likely to order (or want to pay for.) :)

R
i'll be watching for this. curious to see the results.

the math on dough is kinda hillarious.

$3.50 per 1k of 00 Red Chef's. at 600g for flour to make 4 pizzas comes to $2.10, or $0.53 per pizza. yeah, add in water, salt and yeast and it's still inexpensive. the cheese, sauce and toppings add a little more. so maybe a cooked pie is $2.50 - $3.00? yeah, yeah, had to buy the steel, grill, briqs., blah, blah, blah. still less expensive than $12 a pie for classic Neapolitan or a Margherita.
 

Ed P

TVWBB Emerald Member
RE: fermenting temperature and dough boxes...my room that I am sitting in is 83.0F as we speak. The required fermenting temp for my SD cultures is 70-73F. A single blue ice pack easily keeps the temp in that range and I change it every 12 hours. My dough box (40w light bulb in a discarded Omaha Steak styrofoam container) has used about 460w in 88 hours.
 

Brett-EDH

TVWBB Guru
RE: fermenting temperature and dough boxes...my room that I am sitting in is 83.0F as we speak. The required fermenting temp for my SD cultures is 70-73F. A single blue ice pack easily keeps the temp in that range and I change it every 12 hours. My dough box (40w light bulb in a discarded Omaha Steak styrofoam container) has used about 460w in 88 hours.
SD might be different than pizza crust. I’m guessing. The countertop rise it to get the yeast to activate and eat the flour to develop flavor. Then going to a cold (fridge ferment) is to let the yeast create more flavor and to retard the rise, thus the 2-4 days fridge slow rise. Then it’ll go countertop rise for 2-3 hours before making the shells.

I’m curious which flours you’re using on SD? KA bread flour? What weight(s) are your dough balls? Any pics to share? Cooked in a Dutch oven? More info please.
 

 

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