Corned beef/pastrami


 
M

Mike Marlow

TVWBB Fan
I have heard from US friends how good pastrami is on Sandwiches. Only had the chance to try it once myself and remember it with pleasure. Would like to try making some myself. I have been curing and smoking bacon with success. Now I need some help and advice on how to go about curing and smoking the pastrami. Anyone got a good recipe for the brine, etc. Hope you can help.
 
Many thanks Paul. Didn't look in the right places. It sounds pretty straight forward and my butcher will supply brisket as I like. He is a great guy. I will give it a go over the next couple of weeks.
Thanks again.
Mike
 
You can do a quickie pastrami with packaged uncooked corned beef briskets .. I've done a number of them and I like them a lot.

Soak for three hours in cold water, changing hourly to get the salt level down.

Pick any embedded spices especially cloves out of the meat.

Blot dry with paper towels, rub with with the dry rub from Chris's recipe. Smoke at 250F - 275F to an internal temp of around 185F. Let cool on the counter a while, wrap tight, refrigerate and slice thinly the next day.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn W:
You can do a quickie pastrami with packaged uncooked corned beef briskets... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I tried that exactly once. Maybe it was the brand (John Morrell) that was the probem, but I didn't care for the resulting texture-- kind of like if Oscar Mayer made pastrami. And yes, I did have to sing the song in my head to make sure I spelled Mayer correctly.
 
A number of other recipes call for you to smoke / cook the pastrami to an internal above 165 degrees, some then suggest broiling them covered (over with foil) in about an inch of water for a couple of hours to help with the texture.

Then refridgerate over night and cut thin the next day.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Doug D:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn W:
You can do a quickie pastrami with packaged uncooked corned beef briskets... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I tried that exactly once. Maybe it was the brand (John Morrell) that was the probem, but I didn't care for the resulting texture-- kind of like if Oscar Mayer made pastrami. And yes, I did have to sing the song in my head to make sure I spelled Mayer correctly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>lol, I agree the texture isn't as nice as cured from scratch, perhaps there is such a thing as over-cured. But I don't mind them ... they still seem to slice ok and it's a convenience trade off. I can run to the store and be smoking in 3 hours, but plain brisket is hard for me to find, expensive and requires at least a couple days of cure time. (I've stuck with 5 days per " of thickness in sub 40F fridge and not had a problem.)

I've tried two brands Safeway and Maple Leaf. I prefer the latter, the Safeway brand seems to use a lot of cloves and that flavor just doesn't fit my definition of pastrami.
 
I had the same experience as Doug. I soaked the corned beef, but it still came out salty and while edible it was way off what I'd expect from pastrami.
 
If you are going the commercial corned beef route, I would steep it in running water if you can, till it stops clouding with the brine, or if you are soaking it I would soak and change the water every 2 to 3 hours with the last soak of 6 or so hours overnight, then pat it dry with paper towels, then leave it in the frige for 24 hours to air dry, then smoke it, etc.
 
We don't have pre-brined brisket here in Malta or EU as far as I can find out so I will be curing myself. I have checked out the link on pastrami here and will be following that method as listed. Another question though. Is brisket the only beef cut used or is it possible to use other cuts. Also, which part of the brisket produces the best pastrami or should I use a full packer brisket. Any ideas would be great.
 
My choice is to use the flat only. I used Emeril's recipe http://www.emerils.com/recipes/by_name/beef_pastrami.html
The Juniper berries are easiest to find at stores that sell to home beer makers.
I stuffed the flat in a half gallon canning jar and used a vacuum sealer. I put the jar on it's side in the fridge and rotated 180* every day for five days. If you are not using a vacuum then the three weeks is probably best for a recipe without tenderquick.

Yummy
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Mike,

Other than brisket flats (which I use) I have a book that recommends beef plate.

Here is a conversation on different techniques, cuts of meat, and overall pastrami love.

Pastrami Discussion

I should post the other pastrami recipe that I have, but I haven't since it hasn't been Josh Tested Josh approved.

Enjoy your pastrami and good luck.

Josh
 
I am going to assume that Josh is talking about the recipe from the Charcuterie cookbook. If so that is what I used to make my pastrami last week, so I can vouch for it. You can see pics of the process here:

Jamie's Pastrami Cook

I used a whole packer brisket and brined it for a week due to it's size (this recipe uses a liquid brine, not a dry cure). Smoked till it hit 150 degrees (about 5 hours) then braised it in oven for 3 hours. I think the braise is the step many people are missing out on. Most deli pastrami (and corned beef) is steamed, which helps tenderize it. Take a look at those pics and tell me that isn't what pastrami should look like
icon_smile.gif


Jamie
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike Marlow:
... Another question though. Is brisket the only beef cut used or is it possible to use other cuts. Also, which part of the brisket produces the best pastrami or should I use a full packer brisket. Any ideas would be great. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I think for commercial product they must use something other than brisket. I've seen whole pastrami in the deli window thats like 6" thick. Not sure what they use though ... Chuck Roast? I don't think round roasts would be a good idea.

Josh: must be difference in the products, none of the ones I have done have been too salty. Perhaps Jaieson's extended soak suggestion would help out with salty brands.

For pre-cured briskets I think I'm also going to try this braise idea or foil them up tight around 160F next time and see if that improves tenderness.

Thanks for the input folks.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn W:

Josh: must be difference in the products, none of the ones I have done have been too salty. Perhaps Jaieson's extended soak suggestion would help out with salty brands.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think I gave any suggestion for an extended soak. The week I was speaking of was for a raw brisket to cure in a brine I made myself. I didn't start with a corned beef, but rather with a regular old packer birsket.
Jamie
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jamieson Syrek:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn W:

Josh: must be difference in the products, none of the ones I have done have been too salty. Perhaps Jaieson's extended soak suggestion would help out with salty brands.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think I gave any suggestion for an extended soak. The week I was speaking of was for a raw brisket to cure in a brine I made myself. I didn't start with a corned beef, but rather with a regular old packer birsket.
Jamie </div></BLOCKQUOTE>my bad ... it was Chris's suggestion for a longer soak for the pre-cured briskets to lower salt level.
 
One other thing for Mike Marlow ... I like Konrad's suggestion about vacuum sealing for the cure duration. For most of the briskets I have cured I have used the cryo pack they came in and vacuum sealed them up. Flip and agitate daily.

You may be suprised how wet a 'dry' cure becomes. Moreso with pork loins like for Canadian Bacon but the briskets let loose a lot of moisture too. If using a container for the dry cure, try to use one that will allow the brisket to lay flat and in which it 'just fits' so that as much of the surface area as possible is soaking in the resultant liquid.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike Marlow:
... Another question though. Is brisket the only beef cut used or is it possible to use other cuts. Also, which part of the brisket produces the best pastrami or should I use a full packer brisket. Any ideas would be great. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I think for commercial product they must use something other than brisket. I've seen whole pastrami in the deli window thats like 6" thick. Not sure what they use though ... Chuck Roast? I don't think round roasts would be a good idea. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, if not from brisket, most commercial pastrami is top or bottom round, or even eye of round. Chuck roast, other than fattyness, would be unsuitable, I would say, because the grain runs the wrong way.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Doug D:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike Marlow:
... Another question though. Is brisket the only beef cut used or is it possible to use other cuts. Also, which part of the brisket produces the best pastrami or should I use a full packer brisket. Any ideas would be great. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I think for commercial product they must use something other than brisket. I've seen whole pastrami in the deli window thats like 6" thick. Not sure what they use though ... Chuck Roast? I don't think round roasts would be a good idea. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, if not from brisket, most commercial pastrami is top or bottom round, or even eye of round. Chuck roast, other than fattyness, would be unsuitable, I would say, because the grain runs the wrong way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>wow, really? it makes sense they are using round roasts from the lean appearance and the size, but I figured if I used that cut at 225-250 on my WSM it would be dry as could be when it was done. I might try some different cuts and see what happens. I think if I use a round I will cook it as hot and fast as possible.
 
Remember that you will have cured it, and by that process, also tenderized it (think Tender Quick). I also believe they inject cure into those thicker cuts-- something to consider, as opposed to home-curing a 2" thick brisket flat. I'd try it at maybe 275° at the grate to an internal of 160° or so, and let it rise on the rest. Getting a complete cure is going to be the bigger issue.
 
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