Are grills designed completely inefficient and stupid?

[Sam-TX]

I just tried reverse searing a steak. I had two burners on low and still only had around 180-190°F at the offset grates.
I then checked the top shelf to see what the temperatures were there... I COULDN'T GET IT BELOW 350°F with the two burners on the lowest of low!

This is crazy to me! So the grates basically have only radiant heat on them and absolutely no baking convection heat. That all leaves the grill long before it can do anything.

What?!

 

[LMichaels]

They have to be vented or there will be no burn or very inefficient burn. What type of grill? EW or a NS arrangement? If NS I could see the issue.

 

[Brock Gingery]

I just tried reverse searing a steak. I had two burners on low and still only had around 180-190°F at the offset grates.
I then checked the top shelf to see what the temperatures were there... I COULDN'T GET IT BELOW 350°F with the two burners on the lowest of low!

This is crazy to me! So the grates basically have only radiant heat on them and absolutely no baking convection heat. That all leaves the grill long before it can do anything.

What?!

As Mr. Michaels said. Its part of the nature of gas beasts(And also why grease fires are particularly dangerous in them). The way the lids are set up in most gas grills act like a dome that traps and holds heat, with gasses venting out the back sometimes as low as an inch about grate level.

 

[Sam-TX]

As Mr. Michaels said. Its part of the nature of gas beasts(And also why grease fires are particularly dangerous in them). The way the lids are set up in most gas grills act like a dome that traps and holds heat, with gasses venting out the back sometimes as low as an inch about grate level.

That's great, but it traps and holds heat right ABOVE the food I want to cook.

I could probably sear my steaks on low if the heat didn't escape above the food!

 

[Steve Hoch]

Probably easier to sear your steak in the beginning of the cook after you have preheated the grill. I know that's not what you want to do but that's the way I've done it for years and it works just fine.

 

[Timothy F. Lewis]

That's great, but it traps and holds heat right ABOVE the food I want to cook.

I could probably sear my steaks on low if the heat didn't escape above the food!

Heat rises! Temperature reading will always be higher above the food if you wanted the lower temp, why use two burners?!!
Less burner= less heat!

 

[Ross W]

delete

 

[John Burns]

What model grill are you using?

How are you preheating the grill (what burners, what temp settings, how long, etc.)?

What temperatures are you looking for in each zone?

How thick is the steak and what doneness do you want?

Do you want bold sear marks or an even crust?

What material are your cooking grates made of?

Is putting a drip pan on the Flavorizer Bars under the indirect zone an option?

 

[Brock Gingery]

That's great, but it traps and holds heat right ABOVE the food I want to cook.

I could probably sear my steaks on low if the heat didn't escape above the food!

It does, and to be honest the closest thing to a Gas grill that I own is a Blackstone (Sorry Weber, it was before you came out with your flattop).

Ive seen a lot of gimmicks over the years from infrared side burner searers to specialty griddle grates to capture and hold the heat so a good sear can be attained.
With Charcoal/wood there are two methods.
1. Make the fire larger and hotter
2. move existing fire closer to grate the food is on

Part of the issue may just be that those "Flavorizor" bars and protective roofs over the venturi tubes are deflecting most of your heat out and up the sidewalls in order to protect against flareups. With the technique you are trying to do, it may not ever work right with your gas grill. The whole point of reverse searing a steak is to allow the meat to acquire smoke flavor to the meat before the outside is seared closed. When cooking with gas to begin with you might as well cook at a lower temperature directly on a hot grate with a smoke tube running in the grill the entire time.


Think of it this way, trying to reverse sear on a gas grill is like baking your steak in the oven until it hits 115 degrees and only then pulling it out to throw it on your gas grill set on high to finish it off. The technique itself does not lend itself gas grills. Pellet smokers yes. Charcoal grills with lids and multi zone cooking, yes.... On a gas grill its a lot more work for not a lot of return. Most guys doing a reverse sear will run their grills at a lot lower temperature like a smoker, letting the meat rest while they stoke the fire up to temperatures north of 500 degrees to do the sear.

Your best bet will be as follows
1. Cook over low heat with a smoke tube in the grill.
2. Finish searing by using a hot cast iron pan and basting with butter and herbs

 

[Jim C in Denver]

The link below explains it all. Essential reading for anyone who owns a gas grill.

Gas grills need a lot of venting. And they cook mostly by convection (as does a typical kitchen convection oven). Convection is relatively weak when it comes to searing.

Radiation (direct cooking over charcoal; infrared burner on a gasser) is better for searing. Best searing is conduction (hot griddle or hot metal pan).

Eventually I got frustrated with the meh searing of my two gas grills. My solution was go with flat side of GrillGrates. They work great for me.

A griddle that covers half of your grill top (especially if you have n/s burners) is an excellent solution to your searing woes. Bonus is that you also add functionality for veggies, shrimp, smashburgers, cheesesteaks, breakfast.

The Thermodynamics of Cooking and How Different Cooking Methods Work

Learn about thermodynamics: the basis of all cooking! Find out how heat transference works by conduction, convection, radiation, induction, and infrared heat in your grill, bbq, and smoker.

amazingribs.com

 

[Bruce]

Indirect and direct are all I care about.

 

[Sam-TX]

I think I worded my question poorly...

The inside of the lid (on that rear shelf) is WAY hotter than the actual grill grates with just two burners going (in the four burner Summit B4 Platinum).

Why don't we design grills with much higher grates to take advantage of that heat? It seems so wasteful to put the grates below the exhaust of the grill.

 

[Jim Weber]

Why don't we design grills with much higher grates to take advantage of that heat? It seems so wasteful to put the grates below the exhaust of the grill.

That has been my theory and position when it comes to smoking on a gasser with a smoke tube - altho I am maintaining lower temps .

 

[LMichaels]

I think I worded my question poorly...

The inside of the lid (on that rear shelf) is WAY hotter than the actual grill grates with just two burners going (in the four burner Summit B4 Platinum).

Why don't we design grills with much higher grates to take advantage of that heat? It seems so wasteful to put the grates below the exhaust of the grill.

I have honestly never noticed this and when I had the old Summit I would use that top shelf to move things away from the heat not more into heat. So, honestly I cannot relate

 

[Cody Bratton]

I guess that would make sense as to why (so I am told) that those hanging baskets are so good for baked potatoes. Come the day I get my keeper Genesis done, I will be putting one in. I think they are pretty cool

 

[Jim C in Denver]

I think I worded my question poorly...

The inside of the lid (on that rear shelf) is WAY hotter than the actual grill grates with just two burners going (in the four burner Summit B4 Platinum).

Why don't we design grills with much higher grates to take advantage of that heat? It seems so wasteful to put the grates below the exhaust of the grill.

That wouldn't solve your issue.

When you move stuff up higher, you might gain some extra convection cooking energy (i.e. hot air). But you would lose some radiation cooking energy (coming off the hot radiating flav bars) and also some conduction cooking energy (since the cooking grates would be further away from the heat source).

On almost every type of grill (hibachi, Santa Maria, offset smoker, pellet grill, gas grill, whatever) people move the food higher away from the heat source in order to slow the cooking process down. Hold your hand over a hot grill. Do you feel more burning as your hand gets closer to the fire and less when you move it away?

Go ahead and try cooking on the raised grate in your grill. I bet your cooking performance up there will be worse than on the grate. There's a reason why those are usually referred to as a "warming" rack rather than a "cooking" or a "searing" rack.

Gassers are generally weak when it comes to searing. Which is why you see a lot of gassers with extra sear burners and/or special IR burners. If you want better searing on your gas grill, you need to add more radiation or conduction to your cook. Not just more temp and hot air.

Cooking on a grill is more than just the temperature reading of the convection hot air.

 

[Jim C in Denver]

guess that would make sense as to why (so I am told) that those hanging baskets are so good for baked potatoes. Come the day I get my keeper Genesis done, I will be putting one in. I think they are pretty cool

Those hanging baskets work well for BAKED potatoes (i.e. hot air or convection cooking as in a regular kitchen oven).

Not so good for making crispy brown seared potatoes. For hash browns or browned home fries, you'd want to be cooking on a griddle (conduction) or grate (radiation) close to the heat source.

A hanging basket would be the tool to use if you want a baked steak.

 

[Jim C in Denver]

Why don't we design grills with much higher grates to take advantage of that heat? It seems so wasteful to put the grates below the exhaust of the grill.

One last thing on this.

Weber does recognize this effect in their newer grill designs to some extent.

As many have noted on here before, current Weber grills are perhaps a tad underpowered. Especially in a n/s configuration without the extra sear burner. Note that the current weber lids are shallower/lower than the lids on the classic Gennys from decades ago. Lowering the lid would be the same thing as raising the grate, right?

Similarly, the oldest school Gennys had the deeper cook box with the double layer of flav bars. Around 2000, the cook boxes got shallower and had only one row of flav bars.

Net net, the distances from the burners to the grate to the roof of the lid have been getting flatter in successive redesigns of the Genny over the years.

 

[Sam-TX]

As many have noted on here before, current Weber grills are perhaps a tad underpowered. Especially in a n/s configuration without the extra sear burner. Note that the current weber lids are shallower/lower than the lids on the classic Gennys from decades ago. Lowering the lid would be the same thing as raising the grate, right?

Yes and no. It would depend on the location of the exhaust as well.

Idk. I get what you're saying, but I'm not convinced. If you had fatter grill bars at the top to transfer more heat/sear it could work... even better a flat cast iron thing. Or design the grill so that the exhaust sits below the grates.

 

[Jim C in Denver]

Wouldn’t work very well for what you are trying to do.

The hot air flowing out the exhaust is convection cooking energy. Which is how a kitchen oven cooks. Would you ever use your kitchen oven to sear or brown a steak? You wouldn’t. Because convection is the weakest type of cooking energy for searing or browning.

All that moving the vent would do is make the air flow going over your steak closer and hotter. Kind of like turning on the convection fan in your kitchen oven. But it would still be primarily convection cooking. So your convection/baked steak would cook faster. But it would not sear better.

Think about the standard chef technique for cooking steak indoors. First (or last if doing rev sear) you sear/brown the steak in a cast iron pan. That is conduction cooking. Then you put the pan in the oven to raise the internal temp. That is convection cooking -- i.e. baking.

If you want to get a better sear on your steak, forget about the vent on your gasser. Cook over charcoal (radiation). Use an IR burner (radiation). They put extra IR burners on high end gassers to work around the convection limitations that you are experiencing. Or use hot metal in direct contact with your steak (conduction). Griddle or cast iron pan. That is the convection work-around I use.

If you just want your gas grill to run hotter, you can (not recommended) take some wadded up aluminum foil and block a portion of the big vent.
You could also rig up an extra lower lid to cook your food under. That's how most pizza ovens and grill pizza attachments work. The lower ceiling brings the flow of hot air down closer to the top of the pie. So the top will cook faster/better and keep pace with the cooking of the bottom. The charcoal and gas kettle pizza below both have a low ceiling to overcome the high lid/high dome of the Webers.

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Bottom line -- they design the Weber gassers to do a bunch of different kinds of cooks. They are designed to be optimal for steak searing.

https://www.amazon.com/KettlePizza-Deluxe-Pizza-Oven-KPDU-GP/dp/B07YZQZYJ8/?tag=tvwb-20