A couple of Brisket Questions?

[Andre A]

1. Should I do Ribs or a Butt to accompany my Brisket on Memorial Day. What's the better compliment?

2. Should I or should I not inject my USDA prime brisket. If I did, I would use veal Stock.

3. I want to eat my Brisket at 4PM on Saturday. It's a 14.5 packer. If I put on the WSM at Midnight on Saturday @250 and woke up between 6/7AM It should be some place in the middle of the stall, would it be to late to wrap? I guess my question is, is there some rule where I would have to wrap exactly at 150 degrees.

Thanks

 

[Mache]

1. Butt takes a long time on the order of brisket time but it does not need to be wrapped. Ribs can be done in 5-6 hours depending on your method. From a culinary standpoint, its a purely a matter of personal preference how you pair your meats.

2. I personally would not inject the brisket with veal stock. Its a prime brisket, if you don't screw it up, its going to be very juicy, tender, and flavorful because we all know that its the fat that gives meat its flavor and prime means well marbled.

3. I have been doing the Aaron Franklin method of briskets with my HeaterMeter ATC and they typically run around an hour to an hour and fifteen minutes per pound at 250F and a small foil loaf filled with water at grate level. There are no rules about when to wrap. If you look at his videos, he wraps when the bark is set and the meat has good color. That could be 150F internal temperature (IT) or 170F IT, its just personal preference on how you like your bark and the level of dehydration you may experience in the meat. If prefer 24", 40 pound, unwaxed, butcher paper to wrap others do heavy duty foil. My 20+ year old 18.5" WSM has a Cajun Bandit door and a compression latch and is pretty tight. With my ATC, I can sustain 160F and can use my WSM as a holding oven for a wrapped brisket once it is probe tender and rested. I don't remember if you have an ATC or if you can reliably maintain that temperature, but if you can, that approach would mimic the commercial cook and hold ovens (like an Alto Shaam) that many commercial BBQ restaurants use.

So If you have a 14.5 pound brisket, first you need to trim excess fat to around 1/4". Lets assume that takes off around 2 pounds and gets you to 12.5 pounds of trimmed meat. Next do the math on the longest time you would expect it to take. (12.5 pounds) * (1.25 hours per pound) = 15 hours 38 minutes. Once it is done, you want to let it rest at room temperature until its internal temperature is around 170F (around an hour) and for two hours you want to either hold it wrapped in towels in an ice chest rinsed with boiling water or do my holding oven thing, so I would add an additional three hours to the 15 hours 38 minute cook time to get 18 hours 38 minutes which means that to eat at 4:00 PM you would have to start around 9:22 PM the previous day.

The last issue is when you would have to get out of bed to wrap the brisket. Again, that is a matter of personal preference, but if it were me, I would structure it so that I would wrap in or around 7 hours into the cook so I can get some sleep. That said, here is how I would schedule the brisket.

7:30 PM - light 20 or so coals in a chimney
8:15 PM - add lit coals to a full coal ring of unlit (Minion Method) and either with an ATC or by adjusting dampers get the grate level temperature stable at 250F.
9:22 PM - Assuming all goes well, put the room temperature rubbed brisket on the WSM fat side up.
10:15 PM - Assuming grate level temperature is stable and things look OK, go to bed.
4:00 AM - Check brisket to see if it is reading to wrap, and assuming things are OK, spritz well and wrap.
4:15 AM - Go back to bed.
8:00 AM - Get up and check the brisket for IT and probe tender
9:15 AM - Check the brisket for IT and probe tender - Keep checking every hour or so until its probe tender.
1:00 PM - No later than this time brisket should be probe tender and taken off. Rest until IT is 170F (about an hour) and then wrap and hold until 4:00 PM.
4:00 PM - Slice and serve.

-- Mache

 

[Dave Alvarado]

1. Should I do Ribs or a Butt to accompany my Brisket on Memorial Day. What's the better compliment?

Butts cook in about the same time as a brisket, so it's an easy add-on. Ribs require more in-and-out of the smoker, so you'll slow down your brisket cook a bit.

2. Should I or should I not inject my USDA prime brisket. If I did, I would use veal Stock.

You can inject if you want to, it's not necessary.

3. I want to eat my Brisket at 4PM on Saturday. It's a 14.5 packer. If I put on the WSM at Midnight on Saturday @250 and woke up between 6/7AM It should be some place in the middle of the stall, would it be to late to wrap? I guess my question is, is there some rule where I would have to wrap exactly at 150 degrees.

No such rule. At the stall is more like the earliest you want to wrap to make sure you get a good bark. Nothing wrong with wrapping later, even much later. The last brisket I cooked, I didn't wrap it until a couple hours before it was done, to hurry up the getting done.

 

[Bob Bass]

Good advise, Dave. Awhile back comments were made suggesting wrapping softens or destroys the bark. In most cases, I would suspect they wrapped too early before the bark fully set.

 

[Andre A]

Thanks. My question for number one 1 was more so what food compliments to the Briskets best when folks are eating. In other words do most folks prefer brisket and pulled pork or brisket and ribs. I'm leaning towards the butt since it is soooo much cheaper than the ribs.

 

[Cody]

If your having a lot of people over I would pair the brisket with a butt. As you said there is more bang for your buck.

 

[Dave Russell]

Sausage probably compliments brisket the most, but pulled pork is a good alternative as well.

 

[Andre A]

1. Butt takes a long time on the order of brisket time but it does not need to be wrapped. Ribs can be done in 5-6 hours depending on your method. From a culinary standpoint, its a purely a matter of personal preference how you pair your meats.

2. I personally would not inject the brisket with veal stock. Its a prime brisket, if you don't screw it up, its going to be very juicy, tender, and flavorful because we all know that its the fat that gives meat its flavor and prime means well marbled.

3. I have been doing the Aaron Franklin method of briskets with my HeaterMeter ATC and they typically run around an hour to an hour and fifteen minutes per pound at 250F and a small foil loaf filled with water at grate level. There are no rules about when to wrap. If you look at his videos, he wraps when the bark is set and the meat has good color. That could be 150F internal temperature (IT) or 170F IT, its just personal preference on how you like your bark and the level of dehydration you may experience in the meat. If prefer 24", 40 pound, unwaxed, butcher paper to wrap others do heavy duty foil. My 20+ year old 18.5" WSM has a Cajun Bandit door and a compression latch and is pretty tight. With my ATC, I can sustain 160F and can use my WSM as a holding oven for a wrapped brisket once it is probe tender and rested. I don't remember if you have an ATC or if you can reliably maintain that temperature, but if you can, that approach would mimic the commercial cook and hold ovens (like an Alto Shaam) that many commercial BBQ restaurants use.

So If you have a 14.5 pound brisket, first you need to trim excess fat to around 1/4". Lets assume that takes off around 2 pounds and gets you to 12.5 pounds of trimmed meat. Next do the math on the longest time you would expect it to take. (12.5 pounds) * (1.25 hours per pound) = 15 hours 38 minutes. Once it is done, you want to let it rest at room temperature until its internal temperature is around 170F (around an hour) and for two hours you want to either hold it wrapped in towels in an ice chest rinsed with boiling water or do my holding oven thing, so I would add an additional three hours to the 15 hours 38 minute cook time to get 18 hours 38 minutes which means that to eat at 4:00 PM you would have to start around 9:22 PM the previous day.

The last issue is when you would have to get out of bed to wrap the brisket. Again, that is a matter of personal preference, but if it were me, I would structure it so that I would wrap in or around 7 hours into the cook so I can get some sleep. That said, here is how I would schedule the brisket.

7:30 PM - light 20 or so coals in a chimney
8:15 PM - add lit coals to a full coal ring of unlit (Minion Method) and either with an ATC or by adjusting dampers get the grate level temperature stable at 250F.
9:22 PM - Assuming all goes well, put the room temperature rubbed brisket on the WSM fat side up.
10:15 PM - Assuming grate level temperature is stable and things look OK, go to bed.
4:00 AM - Check brisket to see if it is reading to wrap, and assuming things are OK, spritz well and wrap.
4:15 AM - Go back to bed.
8:00 AM - Get up and check the brisket for IT and probe tender
9:15 AM - Check the brisket for IT and probe tender - Keep checking every hour or so until its probe tender.
1:00 PM - No later than this time brisket should be probe tender and taken off. Rest until IT is 170F (about an hour) and then wrap and hold until 4:00 PM.
4:00 PM - Slice and serve.

-- Mache

Mache, I am curious about the Temp and Probe test. I have two Thermometers, the maverick 732 and an instant read thermometer. When cooking the brisket, where and how do you recommend placing the 732 in the Brisket, the point or the flat, horizantal or vertical etc. Secondly, when doing the PT should I use the smaller probe of my intant read thermometer or the the bigger probe of the 732. Finally, where and exactly how on the meat am I doing the probe test, the point or the flat, horizantal or vertical?

On the other hand, we decided to go with the Butt, its so much cheaper than ribs. So what would your recommendations or edits to your detail advice now that I'm going to put a butt on. Thanks

Thanks

 

[Mache]

where and how do you recommend placing the 732 in the Brisket, the point or the flat, horizantal or vertical etc.

For placing a long term internal temperature probe (IT) in the brisket, I would place it horizontally in the thicker side of the flat, on the long side of the rectangle, about one to two inches away from where the point starts.

when doing the PT should I use the smaller probe of my instant read thermometer or the the bigger probe of the 732. Finally, where and exactly how on the meat am I doing the probe test, the point or the flat, horizantal or vertical?

I don't think the size of the probe for the probe test matters. Since I started wrapping with butcher paper, I use a thin bamboo skewer to go through the butcher paper in the flat and test for doneness. If I try to unwrap butcher paper it usually shreds. I usually test in the thicker part of the flat one to two inches away from the point. You can test in several different areas, its not a big deal. If you pronounce your brisket not yet done, seal the hole(s) with three patches of butcher paper soaked in a little vegetable oil. I test in the flat and not through the point area as in my experience the point gets done way before the flat. If you use heavy duty foil, I would unwrap it and use either a bamboo skewer or an instant read thermometer. I use a Thermopen for instant read temperatures.

 

[Bob Bass]

Andre,

Don't be too concerned with temperature. Once your brisket has approached the 185-190 deg range, temperature is no longer of any importance. You now switch to feel, using a probe to test for the correct tenderness.
When temperature is important is during the cool down phase.

 

[Mache]

On more thing. The window for a brisket being done is narrow. You will be able to tell by the resistance you feel during the probe test that the meat is loosening up and getting close to being done. As you detect it, increase the frequency of doing the probe test to every three to five degrees F so you do not miss the done window.

-- Mache

 

[Enrico Brandizzi]

Andre,

When temperature is important is during the cool down phase.

What do you mean???

 

[Mache]

What do you mean???

After the brisket is pronounced done, it needs to cool down to around 170F IT to avoid carry over heat over cooking the meat. That usually takes about an hour with the brisket loosely wrapped on a counter at room temperature. You want the meat loosely wrapped so excess heat can escape. Once the brisket is at 170F IT you can either tightly wrap it (heavy duty foil or butcher paper), towel wrap it, and place it in a cooler rinsed in boiling water or tightly wrap it (again either foil or butcher paper) and place it in a holding oven at 160F.

-- Mache

 

[Bob Bass]

Mache... Couldn't have said it better, my friend !

 

[Dave Russell]

On more thing. The window for a brisket being done is narrow. You will be able to tell by the resistance you feel during the probe test that the meat is loosening up and getting close to being done. As you detect it, increase the frequency of doing the probe test to every three to five degrees F so you do not miss the done window.

-- Mache

Or you can go old school and ignore the IT*. I simply check for tenderness more often as the meat approaches tenderness, and like what I read on Harry Soo's site. He says it should feel like poking a muffin.

 

[Mache]

Or you can go old school and ignore the IT*. I simply check for tenderness more often as the meat approaches tenderness, and like what I read on Harry Soo's site. He says it should feel like poking a muffin.

Certainly that is what Aaron Franklin demonstrates in his video on brisket, but he is running a BBQ restaurant and does 10s of briskets a day.

I have always found it hard to quantify how something should feel. I have been trying for years to check grilled chicken for done and steak for medium rare by feel. I have read that it should feel like the palm of your hand directly beneath your thumb. As you move towards the area between your thumb and forefinger, that texture represents more rare. Sounds great, but I could never master it. Probably because I am not doing it regularly and consistently.

Maybe if I do a couple hundred briskets a year I could get the hang of it, but as a person that just cooks for family and friends, my cooking is episodic and I just do not do it frequently enough.

Perhaps one day the light bulb will go off, but for now the probe test works much better than feel.

 

[Dave Russell]

Certainly that is what Aaron Franklin demonstrates in his video on brisket, but he is running a BBQ restaurant and does 10s of briskets a day.

I have always found it hard to quantify how something should feel. I have been trying for years to check grilled chicken for done and steak for medium rare by feel. I have read that it should feel like the palm of your hand directly beneath your thumb. As you move towards the area between your thumb and forefinger, that texture represents more rare. Sounds great, but I could never master it. Probably because I am not doing it regularly and consistently.

Maybe if I do a couple hundred briskets a year I could get the hang of it, but as a person that just cooks for family and friends, my cooking is episodic and I just do not do it frequently enough.

Perhaps one day the light bulb will go off, but for now the probe test works much better than feel.

Sorry. I was about clear as mud, and shouldn't have said "old school". I suppose that does more suggest going by the look and feel of the meat. I think in that regard, Harry Soo is a better BBQ teacher than Aaron Franklin, suggesting to cover the Thermapen's readout and strictly go by resistance when doing the probe test...as I said, looking for the feel and light resistance of poking a muffin. I was just saying that I try to ignore the IT* once the meat gets up to the high 180's and I start to check the meat.

 

[Enrico Brandizzi]

After the brisket is pronounced done, it needs to cool down to around 170F IT to avoid carry over heat over cooking the meat. That usually takes about an hour with the brisket loosely wrapped on a counter at room temperature. You want the meat loosely wrapped so excess heat can escape. Once the brisket is at 170F IT you can either tightly wrap it (heavy duty foil or butcher paper), towel wrap it, and place it in a cooler rinsed in boiling water or tightly wrap it (again either foil or butcher paper) and place it in a holding oven at 160F.

-- Mache

Thanks for the explanation

 

[JeffB]

That said, here is how I would schedule the brisket.

7:30 PM - light 20 or so coals in a chimney
8:15 PM - add lit coals to a full coal ring of unlit (Minion Method) and either with an ATC or by adjusting dampers get the grate level temperature stable at 250F.
9:22 PM - Assuming all goes well, put the room temperature rubbed brisket on the WSM fat side up.
10:15 PM - Assuming grate level temperature is stable and things look OK, go to bed.
4:00 AM - Check brisket to see if it is reading to wrap, and assuming things are OK, spritz well and wrap.
4:15 AM - Go back to bed.
8:00 AM - Get up and check the brisket for IT and probe tender
9:15 AM - Check the brisket for IT and probe tender - Keep checking every hour or so until its probe tender.
1:00 PM - No later than this time brisket should be probe tender and taken off. Rest until IT is 170F (about an hour) and then wrap and hold until 4:00 PM.
4:00 PM - Slice and serve.

-- Mache

This is a 10.5 hour brisket cook. I personally have never taken that long to cook a brisket. Mine are normally done in 7.5 to maybe 8.5 hours, without wrapping. The last one I cooked I left on too long and overcooked it to dryness. I'm probably in the minority here, but that's my take on it.

 

[Andre A]

This is a 10.5 hour brisket cook. I personally have never taken that long to cook a brisket. Mine are normally done in 7.5 to maybe 8.5 hours, without wrapping. The last one I cooked I left on too long and overcooked it to dryness. I'm probably in the minority here, but that's my take on it.

Yeah its for a 14.5 whole packer brisket, that I'll be cooking at 250. Sounds about right to me.