A bit of frustration...

[MichaelM]

Fourth cook with a new-to-me WSM 14.5.. first three were pretty good. Since it's the last few days of my vacation, I thought I would pull an all-nighter and do an 8lb pork butt. I fully expected a ten to twelve hour cook, and set myself up to sleep outside (I am a backpacker at heart and sleep in a hammock).

I started at 11 PM. Minion setup. KBB Original. At the suggestion of a reputable local smoker and owner of a BBQ retail store, I opted for sand in the water bowl because I figured water would all evaporate overnight. Might have been a mistake. I started with all vents full open. As soon as I saw 200F at the grate, I started to back down the bottom vents. Shut one completely and the others down to about one-quarter. Temps blew right by my target and up to about 340. Over two hours I have slowly shut all the vents except the top which is at about 10% open and at this point, it's 2:00 AM and the temps have not dropped below 300. Right now it's 311F with everything closed and meat temp is already 144F.

Nothing else I can to get the temp down other than hope for rain or break out the garden hose. Worst case is I ruin a pork butt. I am sure not getting the results I see and read others having.

 

[Chris Allingham]

How are you measuring "rack temp" in your table? With a probe on the grate next to the meat? I don't see the temp from the lid thermometer in your table.

If using a probe on the grate, ThermoWorks suggests that it be at least 2" from the edge of the grate (a very hot area as heat comes up and around the water pan) and at least 1" from the meat.

 

[MichaelM]

Thank you.. yes a probe mounted about an inch from the meat and three or more from the side. I recall that the perimeter is likely to be the hottest place to take a measurement. My WSM is an 'EE', hence no dome thermometer. You talked me out of modding this vintage unit.

This was a frustrating experience. I was careful to jump on closing down the bottom vents much earlier than I have in the prior cooks hoping to avoid blowing past my target temp, but the WSM wasn't having any of that.

By 03:30 I fell asleep.. figuring there was nothing else I could do. By 04:30 I woke to find rack/meat temps were now (finally) 260/185 respectively. By 06:30, with an internal temp of 190F I pulled it and it sits in the cooler until later today.



I was expecting it to be done a few hours later, and be ready for dinner, not breakfast. Who knows what I find when I crack into it. An 8lb butt done in 7 hrs? I am expecting a hockey puck. Should I do anything while it is resting? I certainly have plenty of time....

Did I blow it with the sand?
Is my Minion method not right?
Too much fuel?
Meat on too early/late?
Is the 14.5 too temperature sensitive?

I have been grilling for decades. Feel like a complete newbie. The temp control experience is causing me to reconsider my decision to try smoking, at least with this smoker.

 

[Michael Richards]

Michael,
I had a very similar experience the first pork shoulder I did on my WSM 14. I put that post below. It was done for Breakfast. I wrapped it in a few layers of foil, and got it into a cooler with a few towels on and it held that heat for a Long time.
As for your questions I have had to play with the set up of a few of those things. I like to use Weber Briquettes. The first pork should I did a minion of 8 briquettes. I have backed that down to 5 or 6 to help keep the temps down in the 250s. Weber Briquettes are big pieces. I use water in the pan especially during hot summer to help keep the temps low. I don't think the sand was wrong, I think it is just a process and tinkering. After 6 months of using the 14 WSM it is becoming easier and easier to get her to sit were I want it to...
As for today's shoulder I do not think you ruined it. People here have taught me that pork shoulders are really forgiving. I have not noticed a major difference in quality if I cook it at 225 or that first one at 300. What I have learned is that if it cooks hot and fast you need to take the temp up higher to get that tenderness. My only worry for you is pulling it at 190, with it going so fast I am worried you needed to go I little higher to break down the fat to get it tender. Did it feel prob tender when you tested it?

First pork shoulder attempt. What's the best temp to cook at?

I have a few sessions in with my new (used) 14" WSM after a little over a year cooking on a brinkmann smoker. I have used the the water pan both with and without water. I have been able to dial the temps in at 250 with water for ribs and at 275 without water for chicken. Up next is a 10 lb pork...

tvwbb.com

 

[K Kruger]

My only worry for you is pulling it at 190, with it going so fast I am worried you needed to go I little higher to break down the fat to get it tender. Did it feel prob tender when you tested it?

Agreed. Internal temp is not a reliable indicator of done. You gotta feel the meat.

If using something other than water for a heat sink (or nothing at all) one needs to modify one’s approach - fewer lit at the outset, restricting lower vents sooner, etc. Water, I find, is a less fussy approach for longer cooks.

 

[MichaelM]

My only worry for you is pulling it at 190, with it going so fast I am worried you needed to go I little higher to break down the fat to get it tender. Did it feel prob tender when you tested it?

I probed it with the thermometer and it seemed to be tender, but this is my first attempt, so there is an element of guessing.

Agreed. Internal temp is not a reliable indicator of done. You gotta feel the meat.

If using something other than water for a heat sink (or nothing at all) one needs to modify one’s approach - fewer lit at the outset, restricting lower vents sooner, etc. Water, I find, is a less fussy approach for longer cooks.

From my notes, I used about fifteen to twenty cubes to get started. That certainly could be the issue.

So.. what now? Do I put it back on? There coals are still hot.

 

[K Kruger]

Feel it again. If it’s been wrapped and resting it might well have finished during the rest if it hadn’t earlier. It should feel tender, soft, ready to fall apart fairly easily. If it doesn’t you can put it back on - foil-wrapped if you wish, or not - and let if get there. You can also put it back, wrapped, shut down the cooker and let it finish as the cooker heat dies, sort of a combination of cooking/resting/holding.

 

[MichaelM]

Is there a way to use the bone as an indicator? In other words, if the bone appears easy to pull out, does that help determine the state of doneness?

I am checking it now while the coals are still hot.

 

[John K BBQ]

Yes, the bone should feel loose when your butt is cooked. Also, you should be able to insert a tooth pick or kabob skewer with little to no resistance. I agree that "feeling" the done-ness is the right answer. Using temperature is really just a "guideline" because of variation that is normal in different pieces of meat.

I usually plan out my cooks so that the pulled pork or brisket should be done 2 or 3 hours before dinner time. That way if I get a brisket or butt that doesn't want to cooperate, I have a little extra time to wrestle with it. If I get done early, I wrap it up tight in foil and some towels and put it in a cooler and it will still be warm when it's time to eat. Or, if you want to carve/pull right away, you can do that too and reheat a bit for dinner.

 

[MichaelM]

Yes, the bone should feel loose when your butt is cooked. Also, you should be able to insert a tooth pick or kabob skewer with little to no resistance. I agree that "feeling" the done-ness is the right answer. Using temperature is really just a "guideline" because of variation that is normal in different pieces of meat.

Well, if this were a Tomahawk steak I could judge by touch. The Pork Butt is new to me. The bone felt like I could pull it with a little effort. There were a few spots on the top that felt tender, but not the whole thing. Going to put it back on wrapped.

I usually plan out my cooks so that the pulled pork or brisket should be done 2 or 3 hours before dinner time. That way if I get a brisket or butt that doesn't want to cooperate, I have a little extra time to wrestle with it. If I get done early, I wrap it up tight in foil and some towels and put it in a cooler and it will still be warm when it's time to eat. Or, if you want to carve/pull right away, you can do that too and reheat a bit for dinner.

Yep.. that was the plan. I expected to be done around noon.

 

[Cliff Bartlett]

Just a couple observations. You've already received suggestions from two of the best, Chris and Kevin. IMO, 200 is way too late to begin cranking down the vents, particularly in the summer. You need to start taming the beast sooner than that. I didn't see in your narrative what target pit temp you were shooting for. I smoke my butts at 225-235 using the minion method. I'll start cranking it down around 150 and watch. Adjust vents accordingly as the pit temp climbs. If it seems to stall somewhere short of your desired pit temp, you can always open vents slightly to hit your target. It's much easier to control temps on the upswing than it is to bring them back down.

Personally, on low and slow cooks, I always use water in the pan. That's just my preference. Assuming you're using low pit temps your water supply should be good to get you through the night, assuming you're not a teenager and require 12 hours of sleep. I usually get up at least once through the night anyway and keep my water pitcher right next to the smoker should a refill or top off be necessary. Good luck and hang in there.

 

[MichaelM]

Just a couple observations. You've already received suggestions from two of the best, Chris and Kevin. IMO, 200 is way too late to begin cranking down the vents, particularly in the summer.

Thank you all. And thank you pointing out who everyone is. I am too new here to know the players.

You need to start taming the beast sooner than that.

Starting at 200 was a big improvement for me, considering my prior attempts. But I'll agree that I would best served to start even earlier. I also believe that I used far too many coals in the chimney. I'll half that next time, down to about eight to ten.

I didn't see in your narrative what target pit temp you were shooting for. I smoke my butts at 225-235 using the minion method. I'll start cranking it down around 150 and watch. Adjust vents accordingly as the pit temp climbs. If it seems to stall somewhere short of your desired pit temp, you can always open vents slightly to hit your target. It's much easier to control temps on the upswing than it is to bring them back down.

Yes, I was shooting for 250-ish. Truth told, I was concerned it would need far more time at anything less than 250.

Personally, on low and slow cooks, I always use water in the pan. That's just my preference.

I'll admit, I don't know what I don't know. Followed the suggestion of the gent in the store I visited yesterday. He is a season smoker, so.. using sand to thwart evaporation as he suggested seemed to make sense. Little did I know I was going to be awake all night and could have refilled at any time. For the foreseeable future I am going to stick with water. I don't know enough to experiment beyond the Weber design specs.

Assuming you're using low pit temps your water supply should be good to get you through the night, assuming you're not a teenager and require 12 hours of sleep. I usually get up at least once through the night anyway and keep my water pitcher right next to the smoker should a refill or top off be necessary. Good luck and hang in there.

Let's just say my AARP membership application was submitted a bunch of years ago. I knew I wasn't going to get much sleep going into this. What I didn't expect is that the BT range on my wireless thermometer wouldn't reach to where my hammock was hung.

 

[Lew Newby]

Lots of good advice above so I won't repeat.

You did not ruin the Butt. You just used the Myron Mixon method. That's good company for a Pitmaster to be in. Now you can say you've done a "Hot and Fast" cook and it came out great. You'll get the feel for probe tender quickly. There's very little friction. Keep having fun.

 

[Chris Allingham]

Just to clarify...when you say you've got an "EE" that would be a 1999 cooker, a year when Weber did not make 14.5" WSMs. I think you mean it's an "E" 1983 cooker. Just to keep our terms straight.

 

[timothy]

To me this looks more like a picnic than a butt.
Irregardless like Lew said, you didn't ruin it you just did a Hot and fast cook and one of my favorite ways to do butts or picnics.

Tim

 

[MichaelM]

Lots of good advice above so I won't repeat.

You did not ruin the Butt. You just used the Myron Mixon method. That's good company for a Pitmaster to be in. Now you can say you've done a "Hot and Fast" cook and it came out great. You'll get the feel for probe tender quickly. There's very little friction. Keep having fun.

LOL.. is that really a thing? Myron Mixon method?? I'll have to Google that... I am about two hours away from cracking the butt open (see what I did there?).. so I'll see how things turned out. I did probe with a wooden skewer and there parts that, without doubt, just slid right in and other smaller sections that were still a little firm. I thought better to take the butt off and let it finish in the cooler than to leave it on and jeopardize ruining it.

Just to clarify...when you say you've got an "EE" that would be a 1999 cooker, a year when Weber did not make 14.5" WSMs. I think you mean it's an "E" 1983 cooker. Just to keep our terms straight.

At the risk of completely losing all credibility, and with all due respect and appreciation to everyone who have been helping.. I am about make an admission that blows by embarrassment and borders on stupidity. I bought the WSM second hand and dove in head first. What I have is confirmed an 'EE', stamped on the lower vent and you are correct Chris, it's not a 14.5". What I have is indeed an 18'r. How stupid do I feel right now? I never slowed down enough to actually measure it. Thirty lashes with the proverbial wet noodle. I'll go sit in the corner with the Dunce Hat on... No, wait... I'll do that AFTER I try the pork butt.

 

[Chris Allingham]

In that case, Michael, there's nothing particularly special about that 1999 WSM 18.5". Go ahead and drill the lid and add a thermometer if you want! Drill for the thermometer port! Add a lid hinge! I wouldn't bother with the door gasket unless you have problems controlling cooker temp or extinguishing the fire at the end of a cook. Some exhaust around the door is no problem. If you close all vents bottom and top and the fire is out within 90 minutes, you're fine.

And I agree with Timothy, your "butt" looks more like a picnic. Not that that makes a ton of difference in terms of cooking. The bone you pull out of a butt looks like this:

 

[MichaelM]

I'm fixin' to start pulling the pork apart for a 6:00 dinner. Made some slaw and Southern Carolina vinegar based sauce to drizzle. I'll take a few pictures. Judging by the rounded end of the bone I felt in my piece of meat, compared to the linked picture, I'd say you're right about the cut.

Sorry for the confusion & mis-information, and thank you for letting me off easy. Funny thing.. I saw a ripping deal on an 18.5 and was tempted to grab it after just a few cooks on what I thought was a 14.5... That would have been hysterical when I put them side by side only to find I already had an 18'r.

I can definitely see a benefit in the thermometer port. With the probe's cord out of the way, the lid will likely seal fine. And a properly calibrated hood mounted thermometer could be useful. The hood hinge.. not sure. I have been hanging the lid on the side of the cooking barrel, from its' handle.

 

[Tony-Chicago]

Pics. How was it

 

[MichaelM]

I was a golf enthusiast many years ago. I wasn't particularly good, but I had money and time to waste and everyone else was doing it. Though my drives were pretty erratic, every so often the planets would align and I would nail one really long and straight. Those shots were the ones that would keep me coming back to the game when in all rights, I should have been wasting time and money on other things.

That's how I'll describe the pork adventure. It wasn't particularly pretty. It involved a lot of work & worry and I lost a ton of sleep. Spots were a little drier than I would have liked, but like my golf game there were a few sections of the meat that were simply outstanding. Unfortunately, the really moist parts didn't show in my pics. My family thought it was delicious, and I couldn't stop picking even though I was beyond full.

I whipped up some home-made coleslaw, toasted a few buns and grilled some corn-on-the-cob as a bonus. Also made some Carolina Vinegar BBQ Sauce, that I though was perfect, though my girls opted for a dab of heavier sauce on theirs. I knew I was going to have left-overs so chose not to mop sauce on while cooking for flexibility. Brought some to a neighbor who enjoyed it as well. I suppose that is the ultimate barometer.. if you're willing to share it, it likely came out good.

Maybe I could have basted it while it cooked? Maybe spritzing would have helped. Maybe water versus sand would have helped moistness.

Thank you all. Not sure how differently this would have ended had I not all of you to lean on. My hope is to be around here for a long time, and one day be able to help as all of you did.

This is indeed a forgiving piece of meat. Done kind of so-so, as mine was, it is excellent. If it were done spot-on, I am sure it would have been outstanding. Looks far drier than it actually was.....







For the sake of helping others, what did I learn...

• While experimenting is an important aspect of learning, KISS wins most of time
• Water in the water bowl for Low & Slow, sand for Hot and Fast
• The amount of fuel I used was fine, but this Low & Slow style of cook likely needed only eight to ten briquettes in the chimney to get it started. That might have slowed the initial setup a bit
• Start adjusting the lower vents early.. maybe 150 to 175. Waiting longer makes it harder (if not impossible) to control temps. Easier to tweak it up a notch than try to recover from overshooting the target temp
• Like with traditional grilling, the doneness is best left to feel and the poke & probe test than the thermometer
• Confirmed.. I have a picnic pork. Not sure if knowing that earlier would have made a difference
• Confirmed.. I have an 18'r