Dirty fire for a high-heat cook


 
PeterD

PeterD

TVWBB Super Fan
Hi all,
I'm doing a hot-and-fast brisket today. 12 pounds trimmed Prime from Costco, dalmatian-plus rub. After watching a ton of YouTube videos I decided to give T-Roy's process a try using my 2008 18" WSM. His process is no water pan for two hours, 400°F pit temp and turning the grate a quarter turn every 15 minutes, then wrap, and back on (with a dry water pan in) at 275°F until probe tender.

I'm maintaining the temp between 380 and 410 pretty well, but the fire is dirty. I waited for about an hour before putting the meat on, and even after 90 minutes I'm still getting billowing white smoke pouring out every orifice. Using comp-K ("professional" or whatever they're calling it this year) and 6 chunks of post oak.

In the videos they're running a perfectly clean fire and I have no idea how they're able to achieve this. The only thing that they're doing differently is they're using a 22.5" and I'm using an 18. I have the door on upside down and resting on stainless steel screws to give the fire more airflow; without that, and the door closed, my cooker won't go above about 350 negatively. Normally I cook at 250-275 so this is all brand new to me.

Suggestions? Obviously it's too late for this cook, but for next time?
 
That's not really a dirty fire, thats drippings hitting the coals most likely because you don't have a water pan. Just keep rolling.
 
OK, that's good news. I left it on for 2 hours, wrapped it but unfortunately a ton of the pepper/bark flaked off in the wrapping process. I was spritzing every 15 minutes after the first hour and a half (mixture of apple cider vinegar and water, 1:1 ratio). As I type this it's sitting on the table wrapped up in paper waiting for the pit to drop down to 275. Half-hour plus and counting.
 
PeterD said:
OK, that's good news. I left it on for 2 hours, wrapped it but unfortunately a ton of the pepper/bark flaked off in the wrapping process. I was spritzing every 15 minutes after the first hour and a half (mixture of apple cider vinegar and water, 1:1 ratio). As I type this it's sitting on the table wrapped up in paper waiting for the pit to drop down to 275. Half-hour plus and counting.
Click to expand...

Try waiting until the bark sets before you spritz. You can check it with your fingernail.

Jeff
 
It still didn't set even after the 2 hour mark, when I went to wrap it.

This cook is turning into yet another unmitigated disaster. It went on at 9:30am (400 degrees, no water pan), started spritzing at 10:45, and every 15 minutes afterwards as I rotated the grate 90 degrees. Took it off and wrapped it at 11:35. Dropped the grate temp to about 300, which took 40 minutes. The brisket went back on at 12:15, temps steady around 280 to 300. We're now 2.5 hours past that (2:40pm as I write this). Pit holding at 275, brisket tough as nails in the stall at 165 give or take. For a 12 pound brisket, this should be close to done by now at those temps. Looks like at least 2 to 3 more hours (plus rest). Lunch guests will be long gone. And I'll have $50 worth of leftovers.

I seriously need some instructions in how to finish off briskets. I've had three BAD hot-and-fast cooks and thought following T-Roy's videos would give me some good advice. Guess it only works for him. My low-and-slows are also generally bad, too. The flat dries out every single time until it's shoe leather, but at least the points are jiggly and the flat/point overlaps are tasty. Still, 1/3 of the cut is inedably dry. The flats just *NEVER* get probe tender. Period. Even when I check them ever 20-30 minutes, the flat is always dry. The probe never goes in "like butter". Point can be perfect, point and flat at 196 to 210, regardless. Dry, dry, dry.

Not once in over 100 briskets have I gotten a perfect flat "TV show quality" on the 18" WSM; I'm this close to saying screw it and just buying a pellet smoker at Home Despot and having done with it. I've got everything perfect up to the stall, and then it all goes pear shaped. 225 to 400 doesn't seem to make the slightest difference in the end. Always used RD Choice/Angus before today's Costco Prime, so it's not garbage-quality meat either. I'm just missing something crucial. I'd love to spend some time with a comp cook to learn what I'm doing wrong.
 
I regret that you're having such a rough time. I'm certainly no pro but I've been pleased with the briskets that I've made. Have you read some of this site's Cooking Topics sections? Case in point; here is Chris' high-heat process: https://www.virtualweberbullet.com/brisket4.html. It might be worthwhile to compare the two methods; you might see some takeaways that you want to use. For instance: if T-Roy's video says to cook 2 hours, then progress to the next step, I would be inclined to suggest that it should state "cook 2 hours AND to an internal temp of 165-170" before your next step. You will notice that Chris' method does state it that way.

For what it's worth, I've done several high-heat briskets (though not at 400*f) but I never attempted to bring-down the pit temp at any point in time. I simply smoke it until the bark is well-set (and this is probably going to be when the internal temp is in the 160's-170) and then I wrap and complete it without any other change-up. I've even done the entire cook without wrapping two-three times.

When I'm frustrated--and it does happen--I move-on to something simpler that I've had good luck with and then try to tackle the tough items at some other point in time.

Good luck!
 
Last edited:
Maybe I misread this but are you lifting the lid to turn the grates every 15 minutes? Or are you just spinning the chamber?

I’ve cooked many dozens of briskets using high-heat with mostly really good results using the 18.

I try and maintain temps at 325 and higher throughout the cook. I wrap when the color is right which is usually between 2.5-3 hour mark. The brisket stays foiled until probe tender which could be another 1-2 hours.

To me, every packer, in addition to weather conditions, make each cook unique in its own right. Most of my cooks take closer to five hours rather than four.
 
I used kingsford pro/comp charcoal once on my 22 and had the white smoke problem also. It took over an hour and a half to go away. I only use k blue now.
 
Craig Castille said:
Maybe I misread this but are you lifting the lid to turn the grates every 15 minutes? Or are you just spinning the chamber?
I try and maintain temps at 325 and higher throughout the cook. I wrap when the color is right which is usually between 2.5-3 hour mark. The brisket stays foiled until probe tender which could be another 1-2 hours.
To me, every packer, in addition to weather conditions, make each cook unique in its own right. Most of my cooks take closer to five hours rather than four.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm lifting the lid every 15 minutes to rotate the grate 90 degrees (clockwise each time), per the T-Roy Cooks and Harry Soo videos on YouTube. Following his process to the letter today. What I did differently was use butcher paper rather than foil, so maybe that's part of the problem?? I gave up on the butcher paper and re-wrapped in heavy duty foil, put it back on and hit the pit temp to 325. The IT started to climb pretty steadily right away. I got an internal temp of 205 after about 45 minutes this way. I probed it and the point was started to get tender and the flat a bit tighter, so I left it go another 20 minutes.

It's pulled off the pit at the moment, and resting open on the work table to stop residual cooking. I will re-wrap and put it in the faux cambro (big cooler, 4 bath towels) in a few minutes and take it to the lunch party in a few minutes. I should mention that it's 4:30pm as I type this. Wife ain't happy, and you know what they say about "happy wife, happy life."

Honestly, the more I think about this, the more I'd like to go one-on-one with someone accomplished in the art of brisketry. I have the preliminaries pretty much down pat (trimming, rub, fueling, temp monitoring), but from about the stall onwards is when it always goes pear-shaped on me.
 
Post mortem.
Pulled at 207 (Thermapen) with the probe entering somewhat easily, but it still felt a bit tight. I let it vent for about about 20 minutes in the air, then re-wrapped it and put it in the towel-stuffed cooler. Arrived at the party at 5pm, and it was ready for service somewhere around 6pm. Meaning it had about a 90 minute rest, foiled in the cooler. It was still extremely hot when I took it out. The flat was quite dry, but much more tender than I've had in the past. Slices passed the bend test and the pull test with flying colours, but there was no appreciable moisture to them. The overlap and point were just fine, and it all vanished in about 10 minutes.

In the end, I think this was one of my better briskets, but the lack of moisture in the flat is still very concerning and I don't know how to fix this.
 
Sometimes, the bear gets you! This might be that time.
Don’t be overly disappointed, you have to remember that this style of cooking as as much art as science. I have no idea why you would really need to rotate the grate every 15 minutes, you will constantly be introducing a lot of oxygen to the fire(billowing smoke is the fire recovering) great frustration indeed! I like the turn the barrel idea a LOT but, I still think that’s buying combustion problems.
I light it up, make sure things are going well, assemble, check the grate temp for an hour or so and let things settle in and go to bed!
The last one was a surprise, done at 6:00AM, shooting for a P.M. feasting hour, foiled and toweled, in a cooler for about four hours then into the oven at 175, it was amazing.
That time I, sort of, got the bear!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

 

Back
Top