Flip Grills, Get Rich $$


 

Dave in KC

TVWBB Wizard
NOT!


Perfect timing with a few fellow flippers commenting on minimum profits that are acceptable for them.
$100 seemed to be the number everyone has in mind. My number is not quite so high if you take into
account all of the various Webers that I deal with. (Gassers, Kettles, Smokers) If we are talking gassers only, then I would
have to say that $100 is a pretty fair number for me also. However, not in the particular instance.

I had planned to post this story today even before others had mentioned the topic based on recent events.
It all started a few weeks back when I sold the red Silver C.

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The day before it sold, another guy messaged me. I was asking $250, he offered $150. Instead of telling
him to get bent, I politely declined and tried to sell him a grill more in his price range. We texted and exchanged
phone calls for another week. I had 7 possible candidates, all of which were still needing rehabs.
I let him pick out the one he wanted and even let him select the type of parts he wanted in it.
We went all stainless, which I would have done anyways. I texted him pics a few times showing
him how I was progressing also. I had not planned to grind out the firebox, but after giving it a bath,
the inside was splotchy, and just an all around eyesore. So, I suited up in HAZMAT gear, and gave in a
good little 30 minute clean up. The temp last weekend was in the lower 70's and that right there is already
to warm to avoid sweating like pig.

Monday night when I was all finished and had it sparkling,

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I sent him a series of pics. I went as far as to include the Weber cover that came with the grill when I picked it up,
just as a throw in. He sent me back a series of texts over the next hour. First one, wanting a different color of lid.
He questioned a few things, then turned all of his attention to the cover. It is clearly used and has a small tear in it.
He wanted me to discount the grill from 200 to 150 so he could buy a new cover. Mind you, the cover was never discussed.
I threw it in trying to be a nice guy.

I explained to him that exactly, along with a breakdown on the cost of the parts, and how good of a deal he was getting.
He was not budging. I had planned for this sort of scenario all along. I never took a nickel up front and was fully prepared
if he were to flake out as he had just done. I had another gentleman that was a friend of a previous customer wanting one.
I messaged him that night, and he picked it up the next day. No harm, no foul. As for the flake.... it would have
been very easy to give him a piece of my mind, but that does not accomplish anything. He seems to have a number in mind
that he wants to spend. As far as I know, he still wants to steal errrrr buy a grill. I sell grills, and I am more
determined now than ever to sell him one.

This all brings back to how profitable the flipping game can be at times. The particular grill the guy picked out was one
that I had acquired about a year ago. It was not my best investment. It was originally a black lid, with a hint to fade on the top.
I had robbed the sides from it long ago to use with another lid. None the less, I still had it and was into it for $50 to start.
A year later and a little wiser, I will not pay more than $25 for the same grill. If I recall, it needed an igniter like they all do.
The Weber igniters are both a blessing and a curse. They all quit working at some point, and 99 times out of a 100 you will
have to replace one on a flip. However, the faulty igniter is likely the #1 thing that starts to irritate grill owners and to plant
a seed in their mind that it is time to sell and buy a new grill. At any rate, the rest of the grill was fine, and anyone buying it for 50,
replacing the igniter, would have had a great grill. But we all know they don't sell worth a damn in "$50" condition.

My wife does most of my parts purchasing. She can spot a deal from a mile away. As I have made clear, rcplanebuyer is not for me.
That said, I don't put on junk either. We use Amazon whenever possible, and have had to return a few items that were substandard.
We bought very economically priced items for this grill. Burner, flavorizer combo pack - $35. Igniter $11. Wheels $7 each.
Stainless, stamped grates were about $40. Empty tank $10. Combined with the price of the grill initially, I was into it now for about $160.
That does not factor in a partial can each of high temp flat and gloss paint, stainless nut. bolt and washers to mount the firebox to the frame,
half the life of a wire cup brush, roughly 5-6 hours of labor, time spent originally trying to buy the grill, going to get it, ordering parts,
running the ad, texting and calling the customer it was meant for.

In the end, this was likely about a $3 an hour job. Much more labor of love than money.
Fortunately, not every grill is like this, and valuable lessons are learned each time as well.
I certainly have a new found appreciation for the Starving Artists Guild.
 
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Dave, nice write up. As for parts I always try to keep it as low as possible. I try to reuse as much as I can and then try to find the cheapest replacement parts where needed.
How far do you go in regards to firebox and inside lid cleanup?
This has been the most time consuming and honestly most annoying part of the restoration for me. And since I try to be perfect I have easily spent 8-10 hours per grill.
 
Stefan,

This seems to be a topic that is coming up a lot lately. I will be interested if others will also respond. I personally feel really good when the inside of a grill sparkles and looks almost new. It seems like some of us are starting to second guess that. I know Bruce is experimenting with just doing a thorough cleaning and passing on the wire-brush/grinder routine. And to think, I was trying to justify that HF Hercules grinder that they have had on sale for $59:rolleyes:! I have to say as something in addition to consider is that not only is wire-brushing a hot (especially in South FL) and dirty job, it is not without risks. Even with decent masks, eye and ear protection, you are not entirely home free.

I think a possible compromise that I might try - if I ever get done with taxes:p and am still alive - is to wire brush the inside of the end caps and the upper part of the firebox that shows over the grates and just use the Sam's grill cleaner for the lower part of the box. I don't think most potential buyers would even notice and obviously after a couple cooks it would look the same anyway.

Dave,

A very insightful post that helps keep perspective on doing grills as a hobby/sideline income and dealing with customers. You have to be realistic in doing this stuff. I also think you exercised pretty amazing restraint at that unkind, selfish prospective buyer. I remember once, at the CPA firm I worked for in NC, where one of the firm owners listened for a few minutes to a client complaining about my boss's proposed fee. He just calmly got the client's stuff together and handed it all to him. The startled, now ex-client said, "Wait a minute, I am not saying..." He was cut off by my boss who basically told him, "You don't understand. You don't have a choice. Here you go. Have a nice day!"

As a side note, I complain about doing taxes as a second job (evenings & Saturdays ruined:mad:), but I was just finishing another boring tax return today and realized that I probably made more $ in an hour and a half doing it than I would working all Saturday on a grill:eek:. So, I guess I will keep at taxes and let grills be my relaxation and fun and not expect much $ return.
 
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Nice wright up Dave. That's the reason I don't do flips anymore is almost exactly what you wrote about. Chasing grills, hunting for inexpensive parts, dirty filthy work and the worst part is the "wanting something for nothing crowd" it stared out as a hobby mostly for grills I was going to keep and then it was chasing down the gen 1000-5000 to flip. Finally I took a gen 2000 I was going to flip and traced all my time and expenses from travel time, gas for the car to parts for the grill, cleaning supply's. When I sold the 2000 Barb and I made $2.00 an hour. I said enough.
I have one three burner spirt that's left to flip it's super clean and will be an easy restore. The box is clean so just a little shine here and there and it will be good to go. My other will be the gen2 but I'm keeping that for Barb and I.
Those two will be the last ones.
I envy you guys who can do this day in and day out but at 71 with a bad heart I just don't have the stamina and at $2.00 an hour it isn't worth it.
 
I don't expect to make a lot of money fixing up old grills. But I do hope I don't loose money doing it. Being new to this everything I know came from reading threads and asking questions here. When I really get at a grill it can still take me a month to finish because I work on them for a couple hours at a time when I get free time. But that couple hours here and there really ad up in the end. So I don't even factor in the time I put into the restore as part of the expenses.

If I can come out a little ahead after expenses it would be my first hobby that didn't cost me lots of money.
 
I don't expect to make a lot of money fixing up old grills. But I do hope I don't loose money doing it. Being new to this everything I know came from reading threads and asking questions here. When I really get at a grill it can still take me a month to finish because I work on them for a couple hours at a time when I get free time. But that couple hours here and there really ad up in the end. So I don't even factor in the time I put into the restore as part of the expenses.

If I can come out a little ahead after expenses it would be my first hobby that didn't cost me lots of money.

I will help you JMan. Just sell me that Platinum II with the stainless doors and you will be well on your way to making mad ca$h!!! Just remember when you do finally cave, and you will, I will not be insulting you like that neighbor of yours. I mean come on you sold that Skyline! Just think of that Platinum II as money in the bank. I will be here waiting.....
 
How far do you go in regards to firebox and inside lid cleanup?

I typically will not post a grill for sale without the entire hood shining like a new dime.
The firebox is more of a case by case basis. If I can get lucky to find one of the older
500 to 5000 series that has a nicely seasoned firebox where the entire surface is covered
I may leave it be, and sell it just like that. However, normally, the surface is splotchy with
small areas of the grill box showing through. When that's the case, out comes the grinder.

On newer models - 2008 to present, I can normally get by with cleaners. The Sam's Club
grill cleaner is excellent and is dirt cheap. Incredible value for the dollar.

Basically, you just have to do within reason, whatever it takes to get the best visual appearance.
 
I will postulate that you flippers (and there is not an iota of negative connotation there) are just so enamored with Weber grills that you cannot control your impulses to make them as close to perfect as possible. This forum really helps me a lot, because I did the same exact thing with a grill I flipped (by accident, I got a Silver B but then when I joined the forum I knew I needed a 3000). The guy I sold it to got a really, really solid deal. I had bought (BOUGHT!) a new top part of the frame, new burners, flavorizers, cast iron grates, and, and, and. The grill was perfect. I probably put $300 into that grill, and I definitely got less than $150 for it, I don't remember the exact amount I got. The point I'm making is, I do not do flips because I know myself a little now. I'm 45. A lot of you guys have more life experience than I do, but at this age I think you can start to take a step back, evaluate who you are, what you do and what you want to do. For my personal grill, yes, RC grates, RC flavorizer bars, no problem there. That is why I won't do flips. I'd put all that stuff into a flip grill, and turn a $300 investment into something that wouldn't sell for more than 200 bucks. I'm trying to cut losses and I know myself. I think every Weber with a squareish colored top and east west burners deserves nothing but the best in rehabilitation, and would absolutely be buying people grills for the most part. The sad part? I really wonder how many people who buy rehabbed grills keep them up. After all, they let somebody else do the rehab. They probably junk them after a couple of years.

I'm not trying to be negative, I'm just thinking. They probably go on craigslist a couple years later and get another quality grill at a junk grill price.
 
Well hell, might as well wade into this. If you are doing this to actually make any kind of real money, you picked the wrong occupation. Sure, there's the occasional grill that you find for free, can drop an $11 igniter in and sell for $150, but those are few and far between. Kind of like $200 Ranch Kettles and $30 Performers.

Here's the way I look at it. It would cost me $20 to go sit in a movie theater for an hour and a half, counting concession stand purchases. It would cost me $50 for 6 hours of golf. Yada, yada, yada, most other hobbies actually cost me money. Hell, I can go blow $100 in an hour at a casino or a gun range.

A Weber ? I can spend some hours working on it and have a good time. I can take someone else's junk and make it pretty and functional again. I can then either pass it to someone I know who needs one at a really good "friend" price (earning more bonus points in that relationship), or I can sell it to a stranger for some small amount of profit. I might even make enough to pay for other Weber toys that I might stumble across while looking for candidates to flip.

On another note, if/when I flip a grill, unless it's for someone I barely know who is on a really, really, really tight budget, that firebox will be shiny and it will have stainless rod grates and FBs. They won't be RC's products, unless I know the person is willing to pay for the quality, but they won't be junk either. We probably all have that fairly close friend or family member who says "Hey, I really need a grill but can only pay $100 for it". For them, I do what I can. Depending on the relationship, I might throw in my time and grind their box down. Hell, I might even eat some of the cost and lose money on the grill. That's just what you do for friends and family.

Anyways, those are my thoughts on it. Long story short, it's a relaxing hobby for me that hopefully pays for itself either monetarily or through "goodwill". And maybe it provides a little extra to fund my Weber addiction.
 
I must have spent $350 at least on the Genesis B for myself. I don't regret it but I would not do it again. I got a E310 II stainless for $400. Yes it was lucky but the Genesis B just was not worth it. I must have spent $40 to $50 just in paint alone. RC bars, grates, igniter, tray, tray rails, burners, screws, got expensive. What I don't like no matter what I do there is way too much smoke coming out the both sides. That has been the case with about four Silver B and one 1000. Thats a design flaw. The poor quality parts Broiling I had never done that smoke was always at the back.
 
DaveW,
Well said for those of us who are hobbyists at heart and just like doing a grill now and then for others. I think that some here, such as Bruce and Dave in KC, have achieved a level of efficiency where they do make some true profit on a more consistent basis. They accept that you have to distinguish between collecting and personal preference vs. the realistic market value of used grills, regardless of how nicely restored.

I have been way overboard on the collecting aspect which makes it hard for me to look at these Webers as a commodity to be efficiently redone and moved out at a profit. I need and want to learn, though, because I have more than enough collector stuff and a wife who is understandably tired of unstarted projects lined up in our back yard.
 
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Dave I am with you here. I love to tinker and fixe things and bring these grills back to life. Only the cleaning part is what I don’t like. Lol
I never intended to start this to earn lots of money because it does not work. I just started it because it is so easy to fix these old beasts. I just finance my hobby with it. Some people spend $1K on one grill. For that amount I can have a whole range of grills and accessories. On top of that I also like to work on old bicycles.
 
And one more reason I like to restore: we have become a “Throw Away” society and we are generating a huge amount of trash which is just disgraceful. Call me old fashioned but I like to fix stuff instead of discarding it.
 
THyde, DaveW, Jon and Stefan, great points by all.

Fueling that Weber addiction certainly ranks high on everyone's list it seems.
As I have mentioned previously, the thrill of the hunt is a huge factor for me as well.
At least where I live, you can guarantee at least once a week something will pop up
that starts your pulse racing. It may be a unicorn that you have searched for months,
or a deal that is just simply to good to be true, but when they appear, you have to be
ready to pounce. There are a handful of others here in my area that have the search
game perfected. I am amazed quite often that I am even able to pick up what I do.
It gets pretty cut throat at times.

I also enjoy the social network factor very much. The internet makes so many things
so much easier and enjoyable. Its always good to know, whatever problem you face,
there will be someone on a board such as this, WKC, or WGC that has been there,
and that help is available. Its good to be able to help others out as well. Its also
great to be able to share your successes and failures as well as those others. Sites
such as this often provide inspiration and ideas that I would have never dreamed of.
 
So i knew there was a handful of us out here but didn't know how many. I am currently putting the finishing touches on my 100th Weber rehab!

It started just casually upgrading my own collection one kettle or smoker at a time from 2012 to 2015 and did 11 during that time. I needed a gasser for a family member in 2016 and then i got into flipping gassers for profit and the rest is history.
2012-
2015 14
2016 - 22
2017 - 22
2018 - 30
2019 - 12 (7 sold, 5 being prepped or already listed)

Im just starting my 4th season ( i grill all year long, but most people in new york are more seasonal). I havent lost any real money on any but i do have a full time job


e job and a family and time is money so i have established some ground rules that i try to follow:

I try to keep to the 40/40 rule for your standard 3 burner Genesis B/Spirit which is at least 2/3s of what i find.
I generally pay $40 or less and it needs to be a 40 minute round trip to go get it.
This assumes i may need to spend another $20-40 on "maintenance parts" like ignitors, flavorizer bars, grates. These parts have a lifespan and are priced accordingly.

If it needs any other parts like frame, lid parts, side shelves, or lower accessory shelves. its usually cheaper to just buy a second beater grill with the parts and use it as a donor. If you start buying those parts you'll never make your money back.

Im going to spend 1-3 hours of labor repairing and restoring ( i take the angle grinder/drill disk to the upper cookbox and grates and it assumes im going to sell for $160-200 depending on condition.

Its a rule not law :).
I can get more for stainless or side burners or newer larger Genesis models post 2009 so i will spend more for them but i generally still try to keep them to 100 max. Based on the price of parts, these need to have lower cabinets in good shape. Any cabinet/frame rust is usually a deal beaker. I would maybe buy one for $20 and use for parts but thats about it.

Ive done a few summits that sold for 350-600 but there is often significantly more labor involved and again the parts prices are too high for cabinets etc.

I think you guys are about right with the $100 profit mark as a bare minimum on a basic flip, but my average profit is closer to 150 per grill when you factor in bigger grills that can sell for way more, or the occasional curb find or freebie that can end up as all profit. As long as i am making 3-4 times what i paid its usually worth the labor.

My wife has sent me on a few "service calls" when people on facebook post about there webers having issues.

This year has had a few new wrinkles. I got a pickup truck to make transport easier and now i will offer the occasional delivery which has opened up a new option. I've taken two webergrills on "trade in" LOL. I sell a grill and grab my next flip all at once. Its a win win.
 
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Charlie, that is a fantastic breakdown with some tremendous insight.
Chris has the little designation under each of our names. Perhaps we
need another for flippers. 100 flips are definitely deserving of some type
of special recognition. Post some pics sometime. We would all love to
see your work.
 
Charlie, that is a fantastic breakdown with some tremendous insight.
Chris has the little designation under each of our names. Perhaps we
need another for flippers. 100 flips are definitely deserving of some type
of special recognition. Post some pics sometime. We would all love to
see your work.
Thank you for the kind words:
I will post some photos ASAP
 
Well, I'll say one thing - if it hadn't been for this forum, I probably would have opted for a newer Weber gas grill instead of looking for an older Genesis model with better materials.

I wonder if the buying public realizes how rugged the older models really are.
 
I've never restored a grill as you folks have done. My only experience is replacing worn or broken parts on my personal grill. Heck, I don't even own a Weber gas grill, only a WSM 14 & 22" but I'm wondering if bead blasting or walnut shells would make the process of cleaning the box a lot easier? Full disclosure, I've never sand, bead or nut blasted anything although I'd love to give it a try. Just a thought.
 
I've never restored a grill as you folks have done. My only experience is replacing worn or broken parts on my personal grill. Heck, I don't even own a Weber gas grill, only a WSM 14 & 22" but I'm wondering if bead blasting or walnut shells would make the process of cleaning the box a lot easier? Full disclosure, I've never sand, bead or nut blasted anything although I'd love to give it a try. Just a thought.

Yes, I think if you have good media blasting equipment that you would have a valuable tool to use. The fireboxes posted here that were media blasted look superb. I don't think you can match the results using the grinder/wire brush combination that most of us are left to. I have no blasting experience myself but I found out recently that the maintenance department in the community I manage has a sand blaster. I did know we also have a large air pressure tank to fuel various air tools. So, I plan to give it a try in the not too distant future.
 

 

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