Natural Gas Regulator


 
J

J Sheriff

TVWBB Member
Saturday I noticed that the new natural gas grills don't have pressure regulators. What's the reason? Is the customer expected to supply his own regulator or was it deemed unnecessary for some reason.

I looked at Weber and Napoleon grills as I was shopping around and none of them came with a regulator. My 2004 Summit Silver A has a regulator and it came with the grill.
 
I am not an authority on NG, but I think some NG supplies to homes have different pressures and for some you would want a regulator. Larry would be a good one to weigh in on this.
 
Bruce said:
I am not an authority on NG, but I think some NG supplies to homes have different pressures and for some you would want a regulator. Larry would be a good one to weigh in on this.
Click to expand...

The line pressure is whatever it is. That's why you need the regulator - to knock the pressure down (if necessary) to what the appliance needs. It seems short sighted to leave it to the customer to decide since nobody wants to spend any more than the minimum. I'm not suggesting that its a good idea to leave it off. I'm suggesting that it seems outrageous that the new grills I looked at don't come with it. Its a safety item.
 
There are 2 ways I have seen NG delivered and distributed throughout a home. First the most common. fairly high pressure to the house and than into a regulator and a meter. It is regulated at this point to 7" WC and distributed. But in Minnesota at a friend's home I saw a weird thing. The gas went through a meter, but NOT a regulator. It was distributed at high pressure in flexible copper lines to each outlet and a regulator was at each outlet. IMO this is dangerous and an oddball way of doing it. Though at this point her house has not burned down...................yet :D
If you have the most common type there really is no need for a regulator on the grill. All that has to be done is "jet" the grill for 7" WC. I made this mistake when I gave my grill to son in law. I forgot I have a regulator on the gas line PRIOR to the gas quick connects. Well I gave him the grill jetted for (IIRC) 4" WC and it was running REALLY hot and he could not figure it out. Once I remembered I simply bored a new set of orifices for 7" and all is fine in there now.
So there is not a NEED for a regulator.
Many home appliances i,e, gas stove come with a regulator that is "switchable" between NG or LP as NG is 7" and LP is 11" WC and they come with an LP set of orifices too. Your grill doesn't need that. So again no need for a regulator. I kind of like one as it "evens" out the gas flow. IOW if your gas line is "at the end of the run" if a heavy use appliance turns on (like my 200k demand water heater) and the grill is running very low temp you COULD see a flame out. The regulator will even out those surges.
 
LMichaels said:
There are 2 ways I have seen NG delivered and distributed throughout a home. First the most common. fairly high pressure to the house and than into a regulator and a meter. It is regulated at this point to 7" WC and distributed. But in Minnesota at a friend's home I saw a weird thing. The gas went through a meter, but NOT a regulator. It was distributed at high pressure in flexible copper lines to each outlet and a regulator was at each outlet. IMO this is dangerous and an oddball way of doing it. Though at this point her house has not burned down...................yet :D
If you have the most common type there really is no need for a regulator on the grill. All that has to be done is "jet" the grill for 7" WC. I made this mistake when I gave my grill to son in law. I forgot I have a regulator on the gas line PRIOR to the gas quick connects. Well I gave him the grill jetted for (IIRC) 4" WC and it was running REALLY hot and he could not figure it out. Once I remembered I simply bored a new set of orifices for 7" and all is fine in there now.
So there is not a NEED for a regulator.
Many home appliances i,e, gas stove come with a regulator that is "switchable" between NG or LP as NG is 7" and LP is 11" WC and they come with an LP set of orifices too. Your grill doesn't need that. So again no need for a regulator. I kind of like one as it "evens" out the gas flow. IOW if your gas line is "at the end of the run" if a heavy use appliance turns on (like my 200k demand water heater) and the grill is running very low temp you COULD see a flame out. The regulator will even out those surges.
Click to expand...

I'm working from a memory from about 15 years ago, but I recall when I put in my Silver Summit A that it required a pressure 3.6 to 4 inches WC. I have no idea what my line pressure is because I've never measured it. I hooked it up and it worked fine out of the box - nice blue flames front to back. I've been having problems with yellow flames and only the front half of the burner tube lighting. The burners near the regulator burn more robustly and further to the back. I've been planning to replace the regulator since its 15 years old and there are some tiny parts in there that can corrode over time. I thought I might take it off just to see if the performance improves before I go ahead and order a new one. I don't really want to go without because of my concern of a flame out or a leak. I believe the regulator also has a choke or bypass mode that cuts gas flow way back if there is a leak. I'm pretty sure LP regulators have this but not sure about NG.

I am super careful with my gas line - it has a shut off at the source in the basement (tee off the line to the furnace) and at the grill in addition to grill control shut offs. When my daughter was small I didn't want the kids to be able to turn it on and leave it on unlit.
 
The issue with your burners is mostly likely they're dirty and partially clogged. Home gas pressure is nearly 100% of the time set to 7" WC.
 
LMichaels said:
The issue with your burners is mostly likely they're dirty and partially clogged. Home gas pressure is nearly 100% of the time set to 7" WC.
Click to expand...

Well, you may be right about dirty but I cleaned them up a few weeks ago and made sure every slot and hole was open. I used a soft brass brush and opened the holes at the igniters with a small drill bit turned by hand. After the clean up there was no improvement. I'm planning on replacing them just because they're about 6 years old but they look fine. There was some clogging but its all gone now.

Countries that regulate everything require that natural gas regulator be replaced every 10 years. So by that standard I'm 50% over.
 
LMichaels said:
The issue with your burners is mostly likely they're dirty and partially clogged. Home gas pressure is nearly 100% of the time set to 7" WC.
Click to expand...

You are right about the gas pressure. I looked up the usual delivery pressure and the required pressure at the grill and its 7 inches of water. My memory was way off.

The guy who services my furnace told me that the pressure was too high a few years ago and he fixed it for me. He barely speaks english and I never got out of him exactly what he fixed for me. I guessed that it was an adjustment to the regulator on the furnace since i doubt he can adjust the gas pressure coming into the house...another question mark. I suppose I could make a simple U-tube and measure the static pressure at the grill and I could quit wondering about it.
 
Your furnace has a regulator? I have never seen that. A gas valve to be sure but I have never seen a regulator unless it was added
 
I don't know if furnace has a regulator because I've never looked I was guessing. I get my furnace maintained annually. I have no control over who is sent to do the work. There is one guy in the rotation who is a complete nit wit. He always shows up hours late and then tells you about all the work he's done that wasn't requested on his way out the door. He usually either breaks something or screws something up. I'm always happy to get him out of the house.

Last time he was here he said my gas pressure was too high and he "fixed" it for me. He couldn't explain what he did. My grill hasn't been able to get to max temperature since. I'm just trying to diagnose whats wrong without spending a lot on unnecessary parts. I cant imagine that he was messing around with the pressure supplied to the whole house if that's even possible since I don't know the details about how gas is distributed here. I have a meter outside but no idea if it has a regulator with it or not.

Anyhow, I need to determine what the static pressure is at my grill? I've decided to make a simple Utube and measure it - an easily accomplished and virtually free project. If its 7 inches WC I can go from there and focus on other things like worn out parts. My grill is out in the back and the run of gas line is probably about 30 feet. So, that could be an issue also, but as I said in an earlier post, the grill worked perfectly 14 years ago when I put it in. The gas line was put in by the gas co.
 
Does your grill have a regulator built on? If so I bet he messed with the adjustment. If you look ny your gas meter you will see a large round looking thing (usually round) inline with the meter. That would be the regulator
 
LMichaels said:
Does your grill have a regulator built on? If so I bet he messed with the adjustment. If you look ny your gas meter you will see a large round looking thing (usually round) inline with the meter. That would be the regulator
Click to expand...

Yes my grill has a regulator. It came that way. I will make a utube manometer and see what the static pressure at the grill (before the grill regulator) measures. If its low i suppose I can get the gas company to reset it to the correct setting. I spent a little time at lunch looking for the male fitting for a ng quick connect so i can just click my manometer in the quick connect at the supply. No luck so far. Everyone seems to sell the male and female fittings together.
 
Even if the guy lowered the line pressure since you have a regulator on the grill it should not have affected the grill as it's own regulator brings the pressure down to (IIRC 3,5 to 4" WC) and I think the gas company regulators are sealed. So it may be he "adjusted" the grill's regulator. I would look at the grill regulator find it's rated pressure (there should also be a sticker on the grill indicating it's operating pressure) and I would put the manometer on the grill itself to find out if the grill is operating at rated pressure. Because lets' say the house pressure WAS high at say 9 WC instead of required 7". And just for a minute assume he did adjust the house pressure to 7". It should not effect the grill operation even if he did something REALLY stupid and lowered the line pressure to 5 or 6" your grill should operate the same
 
LMichaels said:
Even if the guy lowered the line pressure since you have a regulator on the grill it should not have affected the grill as it's own regulator brings the pressure down to (IIRC 3,5 to 4" WC) and I think the gas company regulators are sealed. So it may be he "adjusted" the grill's regulator. I would look at the grill regulator find it's rated pressure (there should also be a sticker on the grill indicating it's operating pressure) and I would put the manometer on the grill itself to find out if the grill is operating at rated pressure. Because lets' say the house pressure WAS high at say 9 WC instead of required 7". And just for a minute assume he did adjust the house pressure to 7". It should not effect the grill operation even if he did something REALLY stupid and lowered the line pressure to 5 or 6" your grill should operate the same
Click to expand...

He was here to service the house furnace so I would bet he did nothing to the grill - he probably didn't even know I have it. My plan was to put the manometer on the grill as you suggest. I've been pretty busy so it may take another week before I can get to it. I'll eventually solve it but you have been very helpful in speeding up the process.

The easy solution is just to buy a bunch of new parts. I'm trying to determine what may still be serviceable and doesn't need replacement. The burner tubes are about 8 years old and as you mentioned in an earlier response they probably need replacement. They look OK and I cleaned them just to be sure but they still don't work right....good time for replacement.
 
The burner tubes don't need replacing just because of age. Usually they "open up" IOW they will crack or split. I would look carefully at all the openings or ports for signs of clogs and use a small screwdriver to carefully open them. Look carefully at the spider guards as well. They clog up with lint and wil cause flame temps to drop due to lack of combustion air. Finally be sure your valves are working correctly. I have seen (rarely) but have seen, excess grease in them migrate into the orifices in the spool and also the final orifice causing reduced gas flow. Also check your hose. Be sure it's not damaged
 
LMichaels said:
The burner tubes don't need replacing just because of age. Usually they "open up" IOW they will crack or split. I would look carefully at all the openings or ports for signs of clogs and use a small screwdriver to carefully open them. Look carefully at the spider guards as well. They clog up with lint and wil cause flame temps to drop due to lack of combustion air. Finally be sure your valves are working correctly. I have seen (rarely) but have seen, excess grease in them migrate into the orifices in the spool and also the final orifice causing reduced gas flow. Also check your hose. Be sure it's not damaged
Click to expand...


The furthest valve from the regulator quit working properly about 6 years ago - lots of resistance and not smooth. I disassembled it, cleaned everything and the orifice and then reassembled. I lubricated it with high heat brake grease. Its worked well since then.

I always save the burner tubes I replace for possible future use. The $50 a new set costs doesn't warrant my time to clean up the corroded set if it takes several hours - I just have too many other DIY project going on. I did a thorough cleaning once and it took me several hours. If they don't clean up with a wire brush in a short time I buy new ones and save the old ones to be cleaned thoroughly when they are no longer available for sale. A utility knife blade works well for knocking the corrosion out of the narrow slots. The spider guards on mine are all clear.
 
Today, I made a simple manometer and measured the static line pressure at my grill since I wasn't sure it is adequate. It turns out that its 8.25" wc (difference in inches between to top of one water column and the top of the other). That solves that. I guess I have adequate static line pressure out at the grill. It probably drops a bit when the gas is flowing. I don't want to bother with rigging up something to measure dynamic pressure at the grill.
 
@LMichaels - Apologies for reviving an old thread, but you seem like the resident expert around here. I'm thinking of getting a NG grill as I've recently moved and the previous owner had a gas line installed out to the deck. I was reviewing the manual for the grill I'm looking to get and that said it's designed to operate at 7" WC. At the same time, I'm having the gas company upgrade my meter due to some other changes to the house and they told me my current meter is set at 6.5" WC. Would this difference cause any issue with the performance of the grill?
 
No none at all. Anything between 6 and 8 will be fine. If you go outside those bounds either have the issue fixed or install a NG regulator (which are typically set to 4" WC) then simply change the orifice sizes accordingly. Don't fall for people selling "conversion kits" online. They do not work and can be dangerous
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

 

Back
Top