Buying meat - frozen or never been frozen ?


 

Lynn Dollar

TVWBB Emerald Member
We have a local meat market that takes pride that nothing they sell has been frozen. I bought four slabs of spare ribs there this morning for $2.75 pound. Had another errand that took me to the grocery store where I shop weekly, and they had a meat sale in progress with frozen spare ribs at $1.69, same brand name, Hormel. That's about $16 diff I paid for unfrozen.

What's your preference ? Do you think it makes a diff ? I gotta think it does , but maybe not worth a $1 a pound.

Btw, the meat market sells quality, its really just a butcher shop and has a cook shack in the parking lot with a big offset. Here's some tomahawks, bone in rib eye, and tri tip from this meat market.....


OKWlFeg.jpg
 
When meat is frozen the water in the meat forms ice crystals that will pierce the cell walls. When the meat is defrosted, fluid that was locked up inside the cells can now escape. I can almost always tell the difference between fresh and frozen meat. To me it's particularly noticeable with ground beef. The fresh always tastes better and juicier.

With ribs I suspect it matters less because you're cooking them to the point that most of the water is going to be driven out anyway, depending on collagen to provide the sensation of moisture. Whether I would pay $1/lb. more for fresh would probably depend on how many I was buying and how rich I felt at the time. Paying $1/lb. more for non-enhanced meat, that's a no-brainer. Always go for the non-enhanced product.
 
I load up my freezer when meat is on sale. Bought whole or half cows/pigs for years and kept them in the freezer for over a year and enjoyed every bite.:)

Tim
 
It seems to me that the thawing method is even more important than the freezing method, the SLOWER you allow those aforementioned ice crystals to melt, the less cell wall damage. Think about fish! If you can allow fish to thaw as slowly as possible, the better end product you will end up with.
Melt for mush, thaw for....?
Chaw simply does not seem any “better”.
Time to check my KFC!
BUT, frozen is without doubt less “toothsome” than fresh, no doubt in my addled mind.
 
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Well, after reading this, I'm happy with my purchase from Wheeler Meat Market :)

I knew turkeys were enhanced, and ya have to watch for that if ya gonna brine your turkey. But I'd not paid attention to ribs or other meats. I will from now on.

Gotta say though, when they're frozen, its hard to read all the fine print on the package due to frost and ice. Its even hard to get a good look at the marbling of the ribs. I've always just picked up a package of spare ribs, without paying much attention.

And I found when Googling " Always Tender " , that the price of those ribs is always lower than " Natural Choice " . Hormel must produce far far more of the enhanced ribs, thus create a larger supply. Have to pay a premium for " Natural Choice " . Sort've like 100% gasoline and 10% ethanol pricing.
 
I don't feed my fam fresh beef or pork; that way they'll never know if they're missing out, lol. But seriously, I nearly always buy beef and pork during what I consider a good sale price. Hence, the majority of it gets vacuum sealed and frozen. But I also don't shop at a true butcher and have only once bought a prime grade steak as opposed to choice or Angus and usually shop somewhere like Kroger or Meijer. Our household just simply isn't very discerning or demanding. Wednesday evening I moved a Tri-Tip and a couple baby backs to the fridge for the weekend :)

None of this answers your questions; I'm just babbling.
 
There used to be probably ten or twelve real butchers in Kalamazoo. Now, there are maybe two left. One is pretty close but, I don’t use them unless I want something specific, they do some “unusual” butchering, like butterflying filet mignon, some odd pork configurations too.
I miss the old “Hoekstras meat market” hanging beef in the back, hanging pigs, you could have them cut you anything! They did freezer bundles too.
I do try to make the most of my meat purchases and when a good deal appears, I do my best to take advantage of that to be sure. But, I seriously try to allow enough time for the slowest thawing possible, texture “can” be pretty close but, “speed thawing” I think, breaks down cell structure and may return more mushy texture.
Call me a brook too, I feel like I’m just babbling too Fletch!
 
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I'll join the babbling party as well.

I am lucky I have a butcher 10 minutes from my house. I have been shopping there for the past 10 years since it opened. I can count on one hand the number of times I have shopped at a grocery store for meat since it opened. For me the look and color of some of the steaks and chicken at the local grocery stores turn me off. I know I am paying more and may need to forgo having a steak as often as I want but the quality I feel is noticeable. Being a loyal customer for as long as I have been I also enjoy the social aspect of chatting with the butcher and employees.
 
From the competitive bbq side of things... Most teams, from what I understand, purchase their big meats at the start of each season or at least in 'bulk' during the season. Most will be frozen until the week of the competition. From first hand experience, the cooked end results can be and are frequently Excellent in texture. Given that an SRF 16-18 lb American Wagyu Gold Grade Brisket (or equiv) goes for $200 each in bulk, I doubt teams would freeze them if freezing caused cell damage that could be detected by KCBS BBQ judges. Oh... SRF ships these briskets frozen.
 
I believe all meat is at least partially frozen during shipping unless you have a meat locker or slaughterhouse nearby.
I worked In Fulton Market in Chicago a few years ago and that area ( west loop) is or was a meat handling district.
Some really good wholesale butcher shops that were open to the public on certain days, and I bought a few steaks/ roasts on occasion to put in the cooler for the ride home.
Honestly I didn't notice any difference in taste or texture compared to stuff I already had in the freezer.:)

Tim
 
From the competitive bbq side of things... Most teams, from what I understand, purchase their big meats at the start of each season or at least in 'bulk' during the season. Most will be frozen until the week of the competition. From first hand experience, the cooked end results can be and are frequently Excellent in texture. Given that an SRF 16-18 lb American Wagyu Gold Grade Brisket (or equiv) goes for $200 each in bulk, I doubt teams would freeze them if freezing caused cell damage that could be detected by KCBS BBQ judges. Oh... SRF ships these briskets frozen.

Thanks for sharing your expertise!
 
From the competitive bbq side of things... Most teams, from what I understand, purchase their big meats at the start of each season or at least in 'bulk' during the season. Most will be frozen until the week of the competition. From first hand experience, the cooked end results can be and are frequently Excellent in texture. Given that an SRF 16-18 lb American Wagyu Gold Grade Brisket (or equiv) goes for $200 each in bulk, I doubt teams would freeze them if freezing caused cell damage that could be detected by KCBS BBQ judges. Oh... SRF ships these briskets frozen.
I think it depends very much on the cut and how you prepare it. As we all know, typical BBQ cuts are full of collagen and are cooked for a long time to a high final temperature in order to render that collagen. The long cooking chases most of the water from the meat, but the lip-smacking goodness of collagen replaces it and convinces our mouths that the meat is very juicy. Obviously, some juice will still be left in certain cuts, but without all that collagen the experience of eating pork shoulder or brisket cooked to an internal temp of 205F would be very unpleasant. The point here is that ice crystals piercing cell walls and causing juices to leave the meat is just speeding up the process we're going through anyway when we're talking typical BBQ cuts.

Now, if we're talking rib eyes or New York strips, the situation is very different. No collagen to speak of means no covering for juice that's been driven out of the meat. To my mind, freezing steak is akin to cutting it the second it comes off the grill rather than letting it rest. Which is not to say I never freeze steak. I've got a few New York strips in the freezer right now because the Christmas roast was too big and smoking that beast was more than enough outdoor cooking for my taste in late December. We do what we have to in terms of meat preservation.

To me, ground beef is probably the most susceptible to the ice crystal formation. It's already been very much torn asunder during grinding. Ice crystals piercing what few intact cells remain can really make for a very dry burger. I can almost always tell when the burgers have been made from frozen beef. In other dishes where there's maybe binders and other ingredients bringing more moisture to the party, the impact might be less noticeable. Frozen is probably okay for meat loaf or chili. For burgers, it's way better to stick with fresh.
 
From the competitive bbq side of things... Most teams, from what I understand, purchase their big meats at the start of each season or at least in 'bulk' during the season. Most will be frozen until the week of the competition. From first hand experience, the cooked end results can be and are frequently Excellent in texture. Given that an SRF 16-18 lb American Wagyu Gold Grade Brisket (or equiv) goes for $200 each in bulk, I doubt teams would freeze them if freezing caused cell damage that could be detected by KCBS BBQ judges. Oh... SRF ships these briskets frozen.

I would guess , that they have to do this. They can't rely on the availability of fresh never-frozen meat at the locality of the event. That would be difficult and risky to source.

Next trip to my meat market, I'm gonna ask about this. I think the owner of the market does some comps. And even if he doesn't , he's pretty knowledgeable on comps cuz he tells me what the latest trends are at the events.
 
I think it depends very much on the cut and how you prepare it. As we all know, typical BBQ cuts are full of collagen and are cooked for a long time to a high final temperature in order to render that collagen. The long cooking chases most of the water from the meat, but the lip-smacking goodness of collagen replaces it and convinces our mouths that the meat is very juicy. Obviously, some juice will still be left in certain cuts, but without all that collagen the experience of eating pork shoulder or brisket cooked to an internal temp of 205F would be very unpleasant. The point here is that ice crystals piercing cell walls and causing juices to leave the meat is just speeding up the process we're going through anyway when we're talking typical BBQ cuts.

Now, if we're talking rib eyes or New York strips, the situation is very different. No collagen to speak of means no covering for juice that's been driven out of the meat. To my mind, freezing steak is akin to cutting it the second it comes off the grill rather than letting it rest. Which is not to say I never freeze steak. I've got a few New York strips in the freezer right now because the Christmas roast was too big and smoking that beast was more than enough outdoor cooking for my taste in late December. We do what we have to in terms of meat preservation.

To me, ground beef is probably the most susceptible to the ice crystal formation. It's already been very much torn asunder during grinding. Ice crystals piercing what few intact cells remain can really make for a very dry burger. I can almost always tell when the burgers have been made from frozen beef. In other dishes where there's maybe binders and other ingredients bringing more moisture to the party, the impact might be less noticeable. Frozen is probably okay for meat loaf or chili. For burgers, it's way better to stick with fresh.

Jay, Very well stated, the analysis of the differences in collagen content with respect to mouth feel is insightful and, I fully agree! The steak statement is also true, a fresh ribeye is better than a frozen one “most of the time” I stand by the Alton Brown science of “faster freeze creates smaller ice crystals, slow thaw simply allows, the slower breakdown of the crystals”
If I bottom of the fridge thaw one steak and countertop thaw the other, there is a significant difference even to my “NonJudge” mouth.
Now, I need to go scarf down something for lunch, grand son has put in his bid for Coney Island hot dog! If I didn’t love the little guy so much I’d say let’s do something else here! Tonight will be a sausage fest with goods from “YouzGuys” down the street, excellent product, even thawed slowly!
 
Jay, Very well stated, the analysis of the differences in collagen content with respect to mouth feel is insightful and, I fully agree! The steak statement is also true, a fresh ribeye is better than a frozen one “most of the time” I stand by the Alton Brown science of “faster freeze creates smaller ice crystals, slow thaw simply allows, the slower breakdown of the crystals”
We have an old fashioned manual defrost upright freezer. Three of the wire shelves have piping with coolant in it running directly under the shelves. I usually try to keep space on one of these shelves open so when I'm adding unfrozen meat I can put it there, the theory being it will freeze faster if in nearly direct contact with the cooling coils. I've never tried to verify if my theory is, in reality, valid, but it seems like it should speed the freezing at least a bit. Also can't say anything about the size of the ice crystals. I'd love to have a big vat of liquid nitrogen to do a quick freeze, but that's not likely to happen.

I used to squeeze ground beef into a flat slab inside a zip-loc so it would freeze faster. I'm confident that it did actually freeze faster, but I've realized that compressing it like that probably does more to damage the burgers made with it than the ice crystals do.

I'm skeptical about the thawing. If I take a big icicle and stab a steak with it, I don't think the damage to the steak will be altered to any significant degree by whether I melt the icicle fast or slow. Perhaps there's something else going on with microscopic ice crystals that I don't appreciate.

Most of the time I do the bulk of the defrosting in the microwave. We have a Panasonic with "invertver" technology that actually sends less energy into the over when you reduce the "speed". When you set it at 50% it sends half as much energy into the oven during the whole cooking time, not alternating 100% and 0% like most microwaves. This makes defrosting at 20% a much more gentle affair that is far less likely to cook the edges of the food before coming close to thawing the interior. With most items I intend to use the same day I give them a few minutes in the microwave at 20-30% and then let them finish thawing on the counter or in the refrigerator. I figure five minutes in the microwave takes hours off the thaw time. I've not noticed any negative effects of this approach.
 
Our old upright freezer is like Jay's, ours is a Montgomery-Ward, and it currently needs the dreaded defrosting.
For thawing meat I often wrap it in layers of newspaper and leave on the counter turning it over a few times.
We keep our fridge at 34F so even a pound of ground beef would take days.
 

 

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