Dead Pi? 4.2 seems ok otherwise


 

JayC

TVWBB Fan
Guys,

I'm at a loss as to what's going on with my 4.2. It's working fine but I think the Raspberry Pi B board is screwed up somehow. This manifested itself when I changed my WiFi at home from a single point router/WiFi to a gateway with multiple access points all sharing the same SSID. I changed the original WiFi router SSID to "obsolete" so that I could still connect to it while I was getting the the new access points up and running. They all have the original SSID and after about a week, most of my devices reconnected to one of the three access points without any issue. I had a couple of Echo Dots that had to be reconfigured but for the most part it was just a transparent cut over.

I didn't think too much about it until I tried to fire up my HeaterMeter 4.2 and it failed to connect. I plugged it in with the network cable and reconfigured the WiFi but it never connected. Now, the thing is completely offline. The Edimax USB isn't blinking blue at all while plugged into the Pi (but it will blink when plugged into a computer USB). When I power it off/on, I get an IP address on the display of 192.168.200.1 and I can ping that from the Windows command line. However, if I go to that same IP with a web page there is nothing. If I do the heatermeter/devices, I also get "No HeaterMeter found at your site".

I found the WiFi config.txt documentation on the github site and manually edited the config.txt file and that didn't help. I even brought it to the office and tried to connect from a different computer and different lan only with the same results. I've reverted that back to the original config.txt before I monkeyed with it to be back in the same spot.

All I can figure since the Edimax isn't blinking is that it's not getting power from the Pi B board and why it isn't connecting to anything. I still don't understand why I can't get logged into it via wired Ethernet though. I can ping it but that's it. I'd just try it with another Pi B but Amazon doesn't seem to have those anymore either! Is there another model I should try? Thanks in advance!

Help me Obiwan, you're my only hope!

Pinging 192.168.200.1 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.200.1: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=246
Reply from 192.168.200.1: bytes=32 time=148ms TTL=246
Reply from 192.168.200.1: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=246
Reply from 192.168.200.1: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=246

Ping statistics for 192.168.200.1:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 17ms, Maximum = 148ms, Average = 52ms
 
My guess is the pi isnt dead, though it could go either way.
As I recall the HM had a hard time connecting if you change the wifi hardware (even though the SSID is the same). I dont recall the details, whether it is because the MAC address changes maybe? I also don't know if that issue has been fixed (and that would depend on the last time you updated). So your initial problem seems pretty routine. To get around it also depends a bit on the software version, recent releases should wipe the wifi settings if you do a RESET using the menu on the HM. The HM should come back in AP mode, however, some HM software releases were wonky with the Edimax in AP mode, so you could potentially end up in a second problem scenario after the reset.
If you really think you rPi is dead you might try loading up a SD card with Raspian or other linux build and see if it boots and the wifi connects? Personally I would just download the latest HM snapshot release from heatermeter.com/dl with the preconfigured client mode settings and freshly write the SD card and see if that boots? You might also try another SD card if it doesn't boot.
If you determine your rPi B is dead I would suggest you buy a rPi Zero-w, they are really cheap and come with built in WiFi....
 
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My guess is the pi isnt dead, though it could go either way.
As I recall the HM had a hard time connecting if you change the wifi hardware (even though the SSID is the same). I dont recall the details, whether it is because the MAC address changes maybe? I also don't know if that issue has been fixed (and that would depend on the last time you updated). So your initial problem seems pretty routine. To get around it also depends a bit on the software version, recent releases should wipe the wifi settings if you do a RESET using the menu on the HM. The HM should come back in AP mode, however, some HM software releases were wonky with the Edimax in AP mode, so you could potentially end up in a second problem scenario after the reset.
If you really think you rPi is dead you might try loading up a SD card with Raspian or other linux build and see if it boots and the wifi connects? Personally I would just download the latest HM snapshot release from heatermeter.com/dl with the preconfigured client mode settings and freshly write the SD card and see if that boots? You might also try another SD card if it doesn't boot.
If you determine your rPi B is dead I would suggest you buy a rPi Zero-w, they are really cheap and come with built in WiFi....

Thanks, Ralph. That setting thing sounds like the most reasonable reason to me now that you've detailed it. I know I'm on like v11 or v12--the last one before that servo timeout thing. I'd upgraded it and then downgraded because it wasn't working with my servo.

I'm tempted to go with the rPi Zero-w but was under the impression it only worked on the 4.3 and not the 4.2 because of this on the hardware thread:

Full Comparison
HeaterMeter v4.2.4
Raspberry Pi Model A or B (original), Raspberry Pi Zero, or Raspberry Pi Model A+ (with modification)
Wider, thinner form factor
Dimensions: 127mm x 92mm x 29mm (339cm3)
Single 4-way directional button
Slightly cheaper due to single PCB design


HeaterMeter v4.3.4
Raspberry Pi Model A+, Raspberry Pi Model B+, Raspberry Pi 2 Model B, Raspberry Pi 3 Model B, Raspberry Pi Zero, Zero W
Narrower, fatter form factor
Dimensions: 102mm x 101mm x 36mm (371cm3)
Four (4x) discrete buttons
Slightly more expensive due to dual stacked PCB design

Does the wireless version work with the 4.2? My Microcenter shows to have that for $10 and I could just swap the rPi and get rid of the WiFi dongle and be up and running perhaps and leave all the current stuff in tact for now.

EDIT: I already wrote the v14 to a microSD and have a new Pi Zero W from Microcenter (it's adjacent to our neighborhood). There is no header to plug it in though so I suppose I have to solder pins in. Any idea which ones? With the new SD overwrite the ATMega DIP on the HM board? Seems that the ATMega likes to overwrite the SD if I remember right. Been a long time.
 
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Ralph, THANK YOU! I had another 4gig Sandisk card and I flashed it with the v13 image and I'm running again. I still don't know what changed but I was able to get connected to the thing with the heatermeter/devices discovery tool and get the WiFi configured like I have in the past. I had no luck with the config.txt file. I'd like to turn it off and take a look at it and see what I had different just for fun but then I don't really want to take the thing apart to get the card out.

I do sill have this Pi Zero W and am curious if it will work with a 4.2 HM. I have all the parts in a box for another 4.2 and still have never built it. If I could get the Zero W to work with that one I might just relegate this one to backup duty. Does the Zero W work with the 4.2? I've searched on this and can't figure it out for certain. I did get a header to solder to the board just in case but it seems like the pin count is entirely different than the rPi B model so I'm not sure which ones to even put on or how to plug it in. I also picked up the Pi Zero 1.3 for five bucks just in case because it is apparently supported in by the 4.2 as best I can tell.

EDIT: Ah Ha! I finally found this post:
https://tvwbb.com/showthread.php?72005-Can-I-rebuild-4-2-Heatermeter-with-Pi-Zero-W

This is answering my questions. I'm going to make it a priority to get my other 4.2 built.
 
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Oops yeah I need to update that thread. 4.2 does work just fine with the Pi Zero W, I must have been smoking crack when I typed that.

Depending on how the wifi is configured, it can be a little difficult to change the configuration. There's so much customizability in the system that it can really end up with itself wedged in a configuration that can't easily be undone. The older software also would "lock on" to a specific router MAC address for some reason by default, which would of course cause these sort of problems. Glad you were able to get it up and running though, great work!
 
Oops yeah I need to update that thread. 4.2 does work just fine with the Pi Zero W, I must have been smoking crack when I typed that.

Depending on how the wifi is configured, it can be a little difficult to change the configuration. There's so much customizability in the system that it can really end up with itself wedged in a configuration that can't easily be undone. The older software also would "lock on" to a specific router MAC address for some reason by default, which would of course cause these sort of problems. Glad you were able to get it up and running though, great work!

Thanks, Bryan! I like to think I'm better at networking than the average guy so I really was perplexed by this but it's running smoothly now. I'm excited about this Zero W thing!
 
Jay, I think Bryan already answered, but from my experience it is possible to get a HM network config hosed up to the point where it is hard to set straight. Best path forward is a fresh build or full reset (need to be a recent release version that will either do a full reset from the HM and/or not restore previous config to a fresh build)
As for the Zero-W, it works with all HM versions (they are identical for practical purposes, as far as software goes). The physical mating of the boards is the sticking point. On your zero-w for the HMv4.2.4 board you want to only install a portion of the header (I think its two rows of 13 pins, whatever matches the header on your HM). You install the pins on the rPi starting in the corner where the the box drawn around the header has the diagonal corner.
 
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Jay, I think Bryan already answered, but from my experience it is possible to get a HM network config hosed up to the point where it is hard to set straight. Best path forward is a fresh build or full reset (need to be a recent release version that will either do a full reset from the HM and/or not restore previous config to a fresh build)
As for the Zero-W, it works with all HM versions (they are identical for practical purposes, as far as software goes). The physical mating of the boards is the sticking point. On your zero-w for the HMv4.2.4 board you want to only install a portion of the header (I think its two rows of 13 pins, whatever matches the header on your HM). You install the pins on the rPi starting in the corner where the the box drawn around the header has the diagonal corner.

Thanks, Ralph. I have it up and running! I'm thinking I'm going to do this new 4.2 w/ the Zero-w headless as I don't have the LCD on it at the moment. I did put the button on it but looking at this it would be a tight little package without the LCD and the Zero-w. It's only about a 1/4" wider than the HM board itself and not any thicker than a deck of cards (without the button). I'm thinking about taking the button off and designing a case for this guy. Is there anywhere to get a 4.2 w/ Thermocouple STP file that I could just modify instead of having to start from scratch? I've only seen the STL files around.
 
Tom shared the original DWG file for the 4.2 case and all its variants on his google drive. The file can be loaded in the free Fusion 360 software to edit it, which is the only way I've done it. I'm sure there are other CADs that can import it as well.
 
Tom shared the original DWG file for the 4.2 case and all its variants on his google drive. The file can be loaded in the free Fusion 360 software to edit it, which is the only way I've done it. I'm sure there are other CADs that can import it as well.

Thanks, Bryan. My system doesn't support the DWG but I'll check out Fusion 360 and see if I can get a STP file out of it.

I was wondering... Do the holes on the opposite side of the LCD screen do the same thing as the holes on the side we use? In other words, take the picture below. If I were to put the pins on the "top" instead of the "bottom" edge of the LCD and moved the 4 way switch wouldn't I be able to make this thing have an LCD and be about half the height of the current 4.2 HM? Obviously, it would get thicker and I was thinking I could move the 4 way switch to between the power connector and the Ethernet connector and then just run wires to the original location. It would be about the same width, a little thicker, and half the height with an LCD and a 4 way switch. This Zero W really changes the game. I'm thinking about building another 4.2 now and really getting fancy with it.

hmkit-02_1400x.jpg
 
I was on my way to frankensteining a 4.2 when the 4.3 came out. The narrower profile of the 4.3 worked out better as wide footprint of the 4.2 would have made connections tight in the off the shelf waterproof case I wanted to use. The Pi Zero W was the icing on the cake for keeping the footprint to a minimum.
 
I was on my way to frankensteining a 4.2 when the 4.3 came out. The narrower profile of the 4.3 worked out better as wide footprint of the 4.2 would have made connections tight in the off the shelf waterproof case I wanted to use. The Pi Zero W was the icing on the cake for keeping the footprint to a minimum.

Yeah, I like that project of yours. I was reading the thread a couple of days ago. I'm thinking I can keep the single button and the display on the back side of a 4.2. It looks like I could drill right through the 4.2 HM board and miss the 12VDC+ leads between the button prongs. Worst case, I may have to just mount a 2-4 of the leads and lay the others flat and bring them back to the original location via wire. It also looks like I can flip the screen potentiometer to the other side of the board so that it can be adjusted instead of being stuck under the display. I'd think the whole thing would be about half the volume of my current HM, maybe a little more because it will be slightly thicker but it wouldn't even be headless! Headless lets it get really small.

Maybe I should go down that path and leave it on all the time. I could just integrate the whole thing into my BGE stand then and not worry about the size. I need to think about this some more. What sucks is I JUST replaced the 4 way button on my old 4.2 last night (I ordered half a dozen buttons years ago just in case) and it was a real PITA to take out and I was almost sure I ruined the board. That's what gave me the idea to move display to that location though so I guess had I not taken it out I never would have had that idea. Can I just use regular headphone extension cables for the regular probes and an old thermocouple wire for the TC to extend the TC out to an additional connector? If I can do that, I could do something really cool and not care about the size (I think). I could even remote the display and the button. Talk about scope creep... I'm falling victim to Bryan's signature line.
 
I've never tried extending the probe wires, but they are 2.5mm mono type so 3.5mm stereo definitely would not work. I think 2.5mm stereo might work possibly? I think it just grounds out the 3rd wire. And yeah TC wire can be used to extend the pit probe wires, as long as you use the right ones on each wire (because the two wires are different materials).
 
I've never tried extending the probe wires, but they are 2.5mm mono type so 3.5mm stereo definitely would not work. I think 2.5mm stereo might work possibly? I think it just grounds out the 3rd wire. And yeah TC wire can be used to extend the pit probe wires, as long as you use the right ones on each wire (because the two wires are different materials).

Thanks, Bryan. I'll monkey around and see. I could also just use the HM Aux board and that might be a better way to try to do this. I started thinking about remoting the display as well and think I could do that over an old IDE cable. Or I'll just be happy to have two 4.2s up and running (nice to have a spare) both with the Zero W boards now. I upgraded my original one yesterday because those Zero Ws are so cheap and why use EoL boards if I don't have to? I really dig the way the /dl link lets you just configure the image with the WiFi. That's super slick!
 
Thanks! I find it to be quite useful myself for testing even though I'm actually pushing the snapshot to the web server then re-downloading it. It is good for checking first-time installs without having to use the tiny monitor and second keyboard on my desk to configure it (or the extra wifi adapter in my desktop... wow I have a lot of extra hardware sitting on my desk).

As far as extending the LCD with long cable, isn't it easier to just buy a $39 Amazon Fire 7" tablet and run a browser on it? With the ubiquity of cheap tablets or old phones I'm not sure what the purpose of using a 2x16 character mode display would be apart from being a fun hack.
 
Thanks! I find it to be quite useful myself for testing even though I'm actually pushing the snapshot to the web server then re-downloading it. It is good for checking first-time installs without having to use the tiny monitor and second keyboard on my desk to configure it (or the extra wifi adapter in my desktop... wow I have a lot of extra hardware sitting on my desk).

As far as extending the LCD with long cable, isn't it easier to just buy a $39 Amazon Fire 7" tablet and run a browser on it? With the ubiquity of cheap tablets or old phones I'm not sure what the purpose of using a 2x16 character mode display would be apart from being a fun hack.

As much as I love controlling everything in my house from my phone--including HM, I thought it might be nice to have the HM securely mounted in my stand so that it's protected from the elements and then remote the probes, display, and 4 way button in a lexan box that would easily be out of the elements. The reality is that it would take a ton of time to do it and I don't think I'm really that motivated now that I'm on to an outdoor dining table (that will be the same stainless steel construction as the BGE stand). I still might come back to it though. You do make a good point though--if/when I do get around to it, I should certainly entertain a 4x16 display instead so I can see all of the probes at the same time. I think remoting the probes is the big bang for the buck here and the work is already done so I should probably just do that and build a new HM that supports the remote damper/probe board. Then I could still keep the HM hidden away and safe from the elements, it would clean up my stand when I'm smoking and I'm still going to be constantly watching it on at least two computers and my phone and probably a tablet so why do I really need the screen mounted at the BGE? Except for that nullifies my whole "it would be nice argument".
 

 

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