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Thread: Should my stainless grill / flavorizer bars look like this after 1.5 years?

  1. #21
    TVWBB Pro Jon Tofte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg M View Post
    Thars not true of the new genesis II. I didn't test the internals but the external stainless parts are all non magnetic. And pretty robust in my opinion. I would bet the internal parts are good quality stainless too.
    That’s a pretty notable observation. Chinese or not, private equity sharks or not, at least give the designers credit for using better stainless and improving the cart. I don’t like the made in China and have had my own bad experience with private equity buying out my employer, but I do appreciate the positive improvements.
    Genesis 330-SE Genesis Silver C Q3200 Q1200 Performer 1 green kettle. Projects: Genesis Skyline 4000 one redhead and one maroon Genesis 1000 Summit 650.

  2. #22
    TVWBB Guru LMichaels's Avatar
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    I have not bothered to put a magnet on one. I am simply so disheartened with Weber I never bothered especially since if I spend THAT kind of coin it darn sure better have been made by American hands (or at least on this continent) i.e. Napoleon or such. Sick of seeing the US balance sheet going to China

  3. #23
    TVWBB Super Fan Greg M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMichaels View Post
    304 is definitely non magnetic. Weber used to use it but now they've gone el cheapo all the way. I'll bet it won't be too long before they go to powder coating everything instead of porcelain too AND increase the price to boot
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Tofte View Post
    That’s a pretty notable observation. Chinese or not, private equity sharks or not, at least give the designers credit for using better stainless and improving the cart. I don’t like the made in China and have had my own bad experience with private equity buying out my employer, but I do appreciate the positive improvements.
    I agree. I wish weber products were still made in the USA too. But Chinese made products can be good quality and IMO the new genesis II looks very well made. Light years ahead of any char broil, kenmore, members mark, etc. Of course the price is higher but it would likely last many years longer.

  4. #24
    TVWBB Pro Jon Tofte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMichaels View Post
    I have not bothered to put a magnet on one. I am simply so disheartened with Weber I never bothered especially since if I spend THAT kind of coin it darn sure better have been made by American hands (or at least on this continent) i.e. Napoleon or such. Sick of seeing the US balance sheet going to China
    Larry, I do sincerely admire your principles. I hate to see our country turning into smart phone operators that consume but make nothing ourselves. I do think a manufacturer of grills trying to make it work here in the US does have a pretty uphill fight anymore. People vote with their pocketbooks. When Home Depot, Lowes and Menards started mowing down the small hardware and appliance stores around the country there was an outcry to support your local hardware stores. I remember one old-time hardware store that tried extra hard to carry unusual items and differentiate themselves from the big box monsters. I think those lamenting the change and pushing against it were sincere. But, alas, these stores are sadly mostly a thing of the past and the particular store I mentioned didn't make it either. People SAID they wanted the hometown small hardware store, but they took their $ to Home Depot.

    I am afraid that grills are similar. Serious fanatics like us would probably reward Weber for keeping US production, but most of the general public buyers I don't think would. I don't have affection for, or confidence in, private equity, but I have to wonder if the family owners of Weber saw the handwriting on the wall and felt that they could not hope to remain competitive. Too many buyers will be swayed by the huge, but tinny "stainless" HereTodayGoneTomorrow grills on display at the big box retailers and wouldn't see the value in the classic old Genesis we all love. I don't have any inside knowledge, and it may be nothing more than the pure greed on the part of Weber's new owners to which you attribute their actions.

    I guess I would say one last time to at least give the designers (who I would believe DO work in the US) credit for addressing some of the short-comings of the last generation of Genesis grills. I haven't personally conducted the magnet test on the new Genesis II grills, but I have done it on the "all stainless" S-310 (2011-2106 model) and it failed miserably, even the hood. If they switched to better stainless, brought back the open cart, and even used what appears to be better frame design (ala the old Platinum II), then I think the people who designed it and talked the bean counter, private equity money grubbers into approving these changes are deserving of our appreciation. Of course, just my opinion...

    Jon
    Genesis 330-SE Genesis Silver C Q3200 Q1200 Performer 1 green kettle. Projects: Genesis Skyline 4000 one redhead and one maroon Genesis 1000 Summit 650.

  5. #25
    TVWBB Guru LMichaels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg M View Post
    I agree. I wish weber products were still made in the USA too. But Chinese made products can be good quality and IMO the new genesis II looks very well made. Light years ahead of any char broil, kenmore, members mark, etc. Of course the price is higher but it would likely last many years longer.
    I'm sorry I do not see a light years better product. We've gone around on this before. At the prices Weber was commanding they could have kept production here rather than Chinese slave camps. Or at the very least they should have SUBSTANTIALLY reduced the price. But noooo they are going exactly the way Charbroil, and Charmglow did. They were the real pioneers of high quality well made gas grills that were simple, easy to maintain and just plain worked. But to their credit they at least reduced the price of the products appropriate to the Chinese production. Weber has not. And seriously I don't think the new cart is an upgrade IMO it's a downgrade. I like having an enclosed cabinet for my accessories and such. And I don't call a few sheets of 304SS that much of an "upgrade" either. At their prices that entire grill should be 304SS including the frame. And honestly I don't see that much )or at least a price appropriate difference between the box store stuff you quoted. They could cut their prices by a full 1/3rd and still make twice the profit per unit they were before. Admittedly the way they treated me with my Summit issue left a REAL sour taste in my mouth for them as a company but their latest shenanigans completely ruined it for me with them as a company. Add to that I could walk into a Sam's Club buy a VERY well made all stainless (and again Sam's advertised it as solid high quality non-magnetic) for $500 with a LIFETIME guarantee and simply replace it for free every 5 years or whatever I decide instead of buying maintenance parts and so on. To me a much wiser use of my hard earned retired $$$$

  6. #26
    TVWBB Super Fan Greg M's Avatar
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    Yeah we've been to this rodeo before. It just gets really tiresome that every single time someone mentions one of the new Webers you slam them down. You offer no objective evidence that they aren't well made. You just go off on the "made in China shtick". It just gets old. You don't like the open cart? Fine but that doesn't mean the cart on the new Weber isn't well made or that lots of people don't like or even prefer them. If you look at that new grill objectively it's really not made much differently than our beloved vintage genesis 1000's and B's. And the $699 price is not cheap but considering what the vintage genesis cost in their day it's really not out of line at all for a comparable grill given inflation. Neither of us knows if the new grills will stand the test of time like the old vintage webers. You think not. I think they will. Time will tell.

    Regarding the Sam's grill - you know the grill itself is only guaranteed a year by the manufacturer right? There's likely a good reason for that. Yes Sam's has a "lifetime satisfaction guaranty" but you know that isn't always honored? I know multiple people that have tried to return things several years after purchase and been told that the guaranty isn't like a warranty and they didn't honor it because in Sam's opinion the purchaser had gotten a reasonable service life from the product.
    Weber Genesis 1000, Weber Genesis Silver A

  7. #27
    TVWBB Guru LMichaels's Avatar
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    I have never seen Sam's or Costco back down on their warranties ever. I have never known anyone either who have used them to be dissatisfied either. Their only caveat (at least in Sam's case since I am not a Costco member myself) is that you have the original purchase receipt. Not really too much to ask IMO. I'll also add that IMO (given how I was screwed by Weber) that I'll put more faith in them keeping their promise/warranty than Weber will. But hey, if you're happy over paying for a "name" which IMO is all it is now than great. I am not. I'll continue to heap praise on the older products which imo are better products though. Witness I just bought another. Sure it was a whopping good deal but I would have given more for it. In any case my gripes with Weber are NOT SCHTICK they are true concerns about what was once a great company with a great product (like so many others).

  8. #28
    TVWBB Super Fan Greg M's Avatar
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    Maybe your Sam's clubs are more equitable regarding their warranty than the ones in SW MO? But the fact is that here they refused to take back a mattress with the receipt and same thing regarding a computer. Anecdotal evidence? Sure but it happened.

    It's just amazing to me that anyone would truly believe a grill from a sams club would perform as well and last as long as one from a dedicated grillcompany like weber. Chinese made or not. But hey you're entitled to that opinion. And I'm entitled to refute it.

    The truth is no big company like weber, Sam's, etc is pristine in regards to customer relations. They all have black eyes now and in the past. Once you've been screwed over by a company you tend to think that company is totally bad and dishonest. That is human nature but it isn't always true.

  9. #29
    TVWBB Wizard Bruce's Avatar
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    Greg, I agree. That is why you hear "The customer is always right". If a customer feels shorted, right or not, they will likely cease doing business with that outfit and worse, will voice their opinions to other consumers. Likewise, a positive resolution to a problem and maybe even unexpected one will earn a customer for life and positive recommendations to other consumers.

    Weber had carved out a market for grills that were not "throw away" grills from the early 90's through first decade of the 2000's. I just think that Weber began to feel pressure from the "throw away" grill market and felt the need to reduce manufacturing costs through lower labor costs and materials costs. They did this to keep their prices down to regain some of the market they were losing as well as to keep the cost vs price at a point to maximize profit.

    I think this was a mistake. Weber should have continued to concentrate in the market they were so good at. It seems like they started to cheapen their line on one end to gain back some of the "disposable grill" $200 - $300 market and then pivoted to fancy looking upper end grills on the other end that cost way more than the average middle class consumer could afford. They literally vacated the market they had dominated for 20 plus years.

    In a way, I think they had little choice. People could by an off brand grill that would put out the same BTU's and do basically the same thing that a Weber grill costing twice as much could do. The problem is, the cheap construction and materials led to those grills needing new parts two or three years later, likely costing as much as a new "throw away" grill. But, the consumer wasn't looking at that when they saw the two grills side by side at Home Depot with two hugely different price tags. Then, when it was time to put some money into the grill, they either found they couldn't get parts for the throw away grill or they realized that for another $50, they could skip the hassle and cleaning involved and just get another throw away. And there in lies the problem. Too many consumers want the bells and whistles but are not willing to maintain the grills. They go for the disposable grill and simply plan on a new one every few years. The thought of replacing burners and flavorizer bars is not even considered. I suspect there are a lot of grills out there that have never had the flavorizer bars or even grill grates physically removed from their grills in two or three years. I have picked up Weber E310's where the guy said he just wanted it gone and didn't want to deal with "fixing" it. Just needs some flavor bars and burners and if he had just done minimal maintenance would probably still be in great working shape.
    Grills and guns are a lot alike. While one would usually suffice and you can only use one a time, each grill/gun is better in certain situations.

  10. #30
    TVWBB Guru LMichaels's Avatar
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    "But the fact is that here they refused to take back a mattress with the receipt and same thing regarding a computer. Anecdotal evidence? Sure but it happened. "

    Did the computer and mattress have a lifetime warranty? I think not. Heck I even returned a set of TIRES and got FULL refund on them after using them for 60000 miles! I thought it was a mistake. I even told the service agent this. She told me, "these tires had no upper mileage limit and were essentially guaranteed for the life of the car" They were Michelin sold through Sam's and when I looked at my paper work she was right. No upper mile limit. I don't know if they still have this but they sure surprised me. I had an older version of a Sam's grill a number of years ago also made by Grand Hall. When I had a bit of a hard time getting a couple replacement parts I went in to Sam's 2 years later and asked if they could help me find a source. They simply said if I have the receipt to bring it back and they'd refund my money. And the did! Every last cent. Because it had a lifetime warranty. No BS of "well you got good use yadiyada. Boom every last cent in my hand. Unlike good old Weber who left me high and dry with a rusted out $1500 grill UNDER THEIR WARRANTY and nothing but a "too bad so sad" hey we'll give you a discount on a new one. Well even with their discount it was still even more than I could have simply gone out and bought it for! Sorry but once burned twice shy.

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