High heat with WSM vs. Kettle


 
BFletcher

BFletcher

TVWBB Platinum Member
I ask this out of inexperience and hope that how I phrase the question does not appear as critical to any recipe or suggested methodology offered by this hugely resourceful site. I prepared a turkey using the recipe and cooking method of the Apple Brine link. We loved it but here in Ohio with a starting outdoor temp of 30 and ending temp of 40 I struggled getting HH from the 18.5. I started with two heaping chimneys and intake vents at 100% (my intermediate experience level prompted me to start fully open rather than 50% open). Once the 16 lb turkey was placed, the dome thermometer was 330 and climbing at a pace that led to my decision to close intakes to 50% open. From there it went downhill for me and even after opening to 100% again I could not go above 310* even after having added more lit and having the door cracked. Ultimately, I added my fan and controller--which did the trick--though too late in the game. When avoidable, I'm not a fan of using the fan and in manual mode I have consistent success at smokes where I desire 225-275.

There are probably hundreds of you whom have HH success on your WSM's but I saw a few posts over the past couple days where others also struggled with their WSM. One attempt does not merit a definitive ruling but I've done several long cooks on my Kettles without incident, so I feel compelled to ask this: what is the appeal to using a WSM for HH as opposed to a Kettle?

Thank you
 
If I have a long cooking cut of meat, I tend to prefer the WSM, as I typically don't need to refuel like I might with the kettle. If I'm cooking something that either takes less time, or space (or both), then I might opt for the kettle instead. My opinion of the WSM as it pertains to running it at high heat (300+) is that you have to take into account that those are temperatures that are likely not in the sweet spot of how Weber engineered the grill. Since your temp is moderated by available fuel, volume of incoming air, and volume of exhaust, sometimes it's just unavoidable that you will need to make some modifications to the unit to cook above it's "natural" temperature window. These modifications need not be permanent.....you can flip the door on the WSM and prop it open a bit to provide a greater amount of air on the intake side, and you can slide the lid so it's a bit askew to provide more exhaust. Both of these things should give you a better ability to reach (and maintain) higher temperatures presuming you have enough fuel on hand.

EXAMPLE: On my turkey cook this year, I was having trouble getting to 325, even with my automatic temp controller engaged. So, even though the temp controller is supposed to run with all other vents closed, I opened up one of the unused vents to 100%, and was able to push my temps to where I wanted, and maintain them effectively. Part of my issue is that I use the same fan that I bought for use with my WSM18, so it probably doesn't quite push enough volume of air for the WSM22. However, it still illustrates the need to provide more air to reach a higher temp.

Each WSM will cook a bit differently, but virtually all of them will need some help in terms of the intake and exhaust volume to overcome the fact that it was designed to run at lower temps.

Someone who has studied thermodynamics may come in here and disprove all of what I just wrote, but based on my observations and experience, if you can't get the temp up where you want it, you need to find a way to provide more airflow both in and out.

Interested to read other replies.....

HTH,
Rich
 
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I agree with Rich and I took Thermo in grad school - 45 years ago. The heat you get depends on Oxygen (air) supplied to the coals. I've cooked on all 3 sizes of WSM and if I want a higher temp I stick a 3/8" dowel under the lid and that gets me above 350. Not elegant but it works. I don't use my ATC for HH. I won't go as far as some who installed a second vent in the lid but that will definitely increase air flow, get you higher temps, and is much snazzier (and controllable) than a dowel.

With that said I suspect there are thousands of guys on here who are better with the WSM than I am so I'm hoping we get more input on this.
 
A couple of comments.

I guess I'm partly to blame for HH cooking on the WSM because I'm running a WSM website and publishing articles that demonstrate all the things you can do with the WSM, including using HH to cook chicken, turkey, etc. I don't do that to suggest that the WSM is superior to a kettle when it comes to grilling a turkey, just that it's something that can be done using the WSM in addition to low & slow cooling. Besides, while I have a Summit charcoal grill now, I've not always had a kettle, so doing kettle-like grilling in the WSM has been a necessity for me at times.

When I cooked my HH turkey in the WSM late Wednesday afternoon (no wind, high 60's), I used 1 chimney of Kingsford Original and 1/2 chimney of Weber charcoal (which doesn't burn as hot as Kingsford), got it good and hot, and added a 12.44 lb turkey that sat at room temp for 45 minutes. I used the water pan but left it empty. It took 2 hrs 45 minutes for the turkey to hit 160-165°F in the breast.

The WSM jumped up to 330°F with all vents wide open but didn't go any higher. It stayed around 320-325°F for 1 hr 45 minutes, then started to decline over the next 15 minutes so that with 45 minutes left the WSM was down to 300°F. I flipped the door upside down, propped it open for 10 minutes, and that boosted the temp up to around 330°F again, but when I closed the door it started ramping down again as I approached the end of the cook.

So B, if you've got a kettle and like how it does HH turkey, I'd stick with it. If you want to try the WSM again, I'd say make sure the turkey spends some time on the kitchen counter to take off some of the chill; consider a smaller turkey (I think 12-13 lb is ideal for the 18.5" WSM); use a hot burning charcoal and use lots of it; no water in the pan; keep those vents wide open; crack the door and/or lid for extra airflow; cook in a sheltered location if it's windy; and hope for the best!

Glad to hear that people loved your turkey despite the challenges! :)
 
BFletcher said:
what is the appeal to using a WSM for HH as opposed to a Kettle?

Thank you
Click to expand...

Well first it's the headspace, more room between lid and top grate, ( I've done a few 20+# on my 18.5", did a few
on the OTG but the lid is tight ) and also your more indirect, farther away from the coals.
I get what your saying, the kettle is designed for HH, and the WSM is more L&S, but you can do either on both with some changes.
Last time I did a 25# turkey on my OTG I took the lid off my 22.5" WSM and used that on top. Worked like a dream and something I learned on the board.

Tim
 
I cooked a 14 lb bird. I though it might be a little tall for the kettle. I put a turkey and a ham in my 22.5 and though it was in the 50s the wsm didn't want to do 350. I was at 330 most of the cook after adding another chimey of lit to the 2 chimneys I had. I was at 300 mostly the last 45 minutes. This is with the lid propped with a skewer. I wasn't exactly surprised by this. The turkey turned out great. This has me thinking really hard about adding a lid vent. I'm not a huge advocate for high heat. I prefer cooking 250 to 275. But with poultry I wanna cook hotter. I know with no water pan at all, I might have had better luck. I wish I had thought about using the lid from the WSM on the kettle!

There is a guy on youtube that did some cool mods to his WSM to make it more like a kettle. I think it amounts to bringing the charcoal up closer to the top grate.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC37sumA6yjPraqZpPM8U4dg

He even uses a slow and sear in his last video with turkey and was getting around 400 on his smoke thermometer.
 
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Dustin

Great Youtube find for making the 22.5 WSM into a Kettle, He sure put a lot of wings on the grill with the WSM Vortex cook.
I haven't used my 22.5 WSM in about a year, after finding faster ways to cook the same items. Maybe its time to break her back in with a few Mods.
 
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Dustin Dorsey said:
I was at 330 most of the cook after adding another chimey of lit to the 2 chimneys I had. I was at 300 mostly the last 45 minutes. This is with the lid propped with a skewer.
Click to expand...

Just curious, how do you add another lit chimney to the wsm when you're already in the middle of a cook?

Thank you,
Mike
 
Mike D. StL said:
Just curious, how do you add another lit chimney to the wsm when you're already in the middle of a cook?
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My preferred method is to lift the entire middle section with lid, grate, and food off the charcoal bowl, add more hot charcoal, and replace. AKA "the hot squat". Easier done on the 14.5" or 18.5" than on the 22.5". Not recommended by Weber (that's why they don't include handles on the middle cooking section) and done at your own risk especially if water in the pan.

Some use the access door as a sort of charcoal chute to drop hot coals in one or two at a time, or you can make your own charcoal chute. There's also this example of a long shovel that can be loaded with lit or unlit coals and dumped through the access opening.

I'm curious to know how Dustin does it.
 
Dustin Dorsey said:
There is a guy on youtube that did some cool mods to his WSM to make it more like a kettle. I think it amounts to bringing the charcoal up closer to the top grate.
Click to expand...

I documented several ways to convert the WSM to a grill in this article that don't involve using power tools: Grilling On The Weber Bullet. Just by moving the charcoal grate + charcoal chamber up onto the tabs where the water pan sits, you can get the charcoal much closer to the cooking grate. And if you add another charcoal grate on top of the chamber, you get even closer. And of course, there's always just placing the cooking grate right on top of the charcoal bowl, aka "the Weber egg" configuration.

I've got a version of the bookshelf clip grate modification here: http://virtualweberbullet.com/increasecapacity.html#middle

But again, back to the original poster's question...if one has a kettle, it's not clear why you'd do many of these things in the WSM, except perhaps for the added headroom of the lid as a couple have mentioned.
 
Mike D. StL said:
Just curious, how do you add another lit chimney to the wsm when you're already in the middle of a cook?
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I'm not expert, but on my 18 I've added lit by lifting the midsection as described by Chris A and I've also used this scoop on both the 22 and 18: https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000FPLXUQ/tvwb-20. I don't add fuel very often but when I use the scoop to do so I also use a long instrument--such as tongs--to distribute the coals as best as possible.
 
I get to 325*F + but placing a metal skewer sideways between the center section and lid using one lit chimney of lump. I do this for HH Brisket and poultry.
 
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I also had trouble for the first time getting the WSM up to 325. It's never been an issue in the past. Eventually I propped open the top lid and that got enough air flowing to bring the temp up to where I wanted it. If I do much more cold weather HH cooking in the WSM I may think about drilling a couple more holes in the lid and plugging them with corks or maybe silicone bottle stoppers.

For adding more charcoal, I have a small shovel that I think was once part of a fireplace set. I can get 8-10 briquettes on it without serious danger of them falling off as long as I don't shake too much. The business end of the shovel is small enough to fit through the door. The handle is long enough that I can drop the new briquettes pretty much anywhere I want within the charcoal ring.
 
I might be a bad example, as I have always had a kettle, even before I had my WSM.

I use the WSM almost entirely for low and slow, and that goes for chicken also. I have found that for my taste, even if I cook chicken low/slow for about 4 hours, the meat is still moist and like the texture/taste better.

I have seen people doing a lot of HH cooks on the WSM, but I have just never favored such as I would use the kettle for that.

I don't think there is any rule of thumb, and I don't blame Chris for people doing HH on their WSMs, there used to be a guy named Bryan S on this site, he was in Lancaster, PA, but he doesn't use TVWBB much anymore...he was the king of HH brisket on the WSM and his results were XLNT and would rival low/slow, but for me I have always just done low/slow and prefer it that way...I just feel the way smoking was meant to be done is low/slow and when it's done it's done.

I 'que up a lot of stuff that is done HH on the kettle, and probably use my kettle more than the WSM, most certainly, because more cooking I do is suited for HH on the kettle. This goes for all fish, chops, steaks, etc...and we do a bit of fish in our house, so the kettle gets used frequently. I do lust for a Summit Charcoal, but I'm gonna hold off for right now and keep using my kettle. The Summit Charcoal is just a better kettle, period, and I would do all of my HH and possibly some low/slow on it. Could I replace my WSM with the Summit Charcoal??? It's possible, IMO, but I suspect I will always want more than one smoker/grill, just because I need to split up meat/fish/veggies and having just one won't do. :eek:
 
Clint said:
do you have good pictures of that here? I searched but only found a good pic off-site (even the Weber manuals don't seem to show it that well):

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n228/sipes2/BBQ Throwdown Pics/Pizza2.jpg

I've cooked some of my best steaks using or copying the Little Black Egg configuration. My other bests inc banked coals on my platinum.
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Clint,

That setup sucks, IMO, because I don't like charcoal on the middle grill.

I use the bottom, just take the entire body off and toss the kettle grill on top, works ok. I just got some of those tabs from Rock's BBQ, they sell them for about $10 a set. That will allow you to use the same grill from the top on the bottom section. I use that for finishing off ribs sometimes to get a nice char on them before I serve. This is important with some of the sauces I use as some are not "dipping" type sauces. IOW, you wouldn't slather them on before serving as they need to be cooked into the meat, so not like BBQ sauce. I do use BBQ sauce and like it, just that I use other sauces as well that are not like that. Miso is just one example.
 
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