Injecting and probes (Danger zone)?


 

Mac LA

TVWBB Super Fan
Hello Team,

So I was reading on another site, debating whether I should inject a brisket or 2 I'm going to do this weekend (I always do), and came across this post below.

"NOTE: If you inject your brisket, or if you insert a temp probe, or do anything to break the surface of your Brisket, you must get that piece of meat from 40˚ to 140˚ internal temp in no longer than 4 hours.

I do not inject for that reason. I do not insert a temp probe until my Brisket is in 225˚ heat for 3 hours, so I no longer have to worry about the danger zone."

As I mentioned above, I've never had an issues before as I always inject so have I just gotten lucky or is this a real concern? Perhabs I surpass 140* in less than 4 hours, not sure as I've not timed that part of the cook.

Thoughts?

Johnny
 
I wouldn't worry about it. For one you'll probably reach 140 in 4 hours if you go from the fridge to the smoker. Also, you are going to cook that brisket to far beyond temps that would kill any bacteria that you would introduce.
 
I wouldn't worry about it. For one you'll probably reach 140 in 4 hours if you go from the fridge to the smoker. Also, you are going to cook that brisket to far beyond temps that would kill any bacteria that you would introduce.

That was sort of my thoughts as well.
 
Johnny...

I think it is safe to assume all briskets cooked for a KCBS competition are injected. Have judged 56 KCBS competitions. Using 6 as the number of briskets judged per competition, I would have had 336 chances to get a bug. So far... Nada !
 
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"NOTE: If you inject your brisket, or if you insert a temp probe, or do anything to break the surface of your Brisket, you must get that piece of meat from 40˚ to 140˚ internal temp in no longer than 4 hours.

FYI, some people smoke brisket by hanging (i.e. piercing with hooks) in barrel smokers.
 
IMO, a vacuum marination set up would infuse more germs/bacteria than a needle.

Since I am a homebrewer I'm used to sanitizing all my equipment and utensils which include my needles and probes before inserting them.
 
Yes, you "should" get the temp to 140, but then your SHOULD cook all meat to 140. Ever have a 140 steak? Yuck. We tend to smoke most briskets and pulled porks to ~200. Anything you inject or push in with a temp probe or whatever will be long dead by the time you get to it.
Better chance of somebody sneezing on the bread than an injected microbe surviving the cook.
 
LOL! There's not bus within 30 miles from where I live. We have trains.
So then, you getting hit by a bus would have slightly greater odds than getting sick from injecting with clean equipment a brisket subsequently cooked to an internal temp close to 200F.
 
Johnny...

I think it is safe to assume all briskets cooked for a KCBS competition are injected. Have judged 56 KCBS competitions. Using 6 as the number of briskets judged per competition, I would have had 336 chances to get a bug. So far... Nada !

That def puts it in perspective.

I guess I need to stop reading so much and just keep doing what I've been doing.

You could get hit by a bus if you go outside too......


LMAO!!!!

Yes, you "should" get the temp to 140, but then your SHOULD cook all meat to 140. Ever have a 140 steak? Yuck. We tend to smoke most briskets and pulled porks to ~200. Anything you inject or push in with a temp probe or whatever will be long dead by the time you get to it.
Better chance of somebody sneezing on the bread than an injected microbe surviving the cook.

The stated 140* was 140* in less than 4 hours, but yes gotcha.


Thanks for all the replies fellas.
 
Anytime you puncture you have a chance of driving in surface bacteria on raw meat. I've seen a few times where they rinse the outside with vinegar and pat dry.
Makes me wonder if the amount of vin in a mustard slather does the same thing.

Tim
 
I read somewhere a recommendation to wash all your fruit in cold water with some vinegar in it. I have gotten violently ill from something I'm almost positive came from some fruit, but I suspect it was insecticide, not bacteria, so I'm not sure the vinegar would have helped all that much more than just a thorough washing. (It was a grapefruit and I stupidly figured I was taking the peel off so it didn't matter if I washed it. I'm sure it got on my hands, then to the fruit, then... Well, I'll spare you details other than to say it's the closest I've ever come to calling the paramedics.)

That said, I'm still not convinced bacteria from the thermometer probe is a big issue with meat that's going to spend several hours above 180F. Contamination after cooking is far more likely to be the source of any problem that might occur.
 
I read somewhere a recommendation to wash all your fruit in cold water with some vinegar in it. I have gotten violently ill from something I'm almost positive came from some fruit, but I suspect it was insecticide, not bacteria, so I'm not sure the vinegar would have helped all that much more than just a thorough washing. (It was a grapefruit and I stupidly figured I was taking the peel off so it didn't matter if I washed it. I'm sure it got on my hands, then to the fruit, then... Well, I'll spare you details other than to say it's the closest I've ever come to calling the paramedics.)

That said, I'm still not convinced bacteria from the thermometer probe is a big issue with meat that's going to spend several hours above 180F. Contamination after cooking is far more likely to be the source of any problem that might occur.

Jay, somebody on the board (and I don't recall who) became violently ill while plunging a knife into an avocado when separating it.
IIRC he said his Doctor recommended a mild bleach and water solution for cleaning off the outer skin.
I've been doing that since then, and esp anything from Mexico or abroad.

Tim
 
Jay, somebody on the board (and I don't recall who) became violently ill while plunging a knife into an avocado when separating it.
IIRC he said his Doctor recommended a mild bleach and water solution for cleaning off the outer skin.
I've been doing that since then, and esp anything from Mexico or abroad.
I don't know about putting bleach on something I'm going to eat, even if it's just a skin that will be discarded. At least vinegar isn't going to poison you if you don't get it all washed off.

I suppose if one was sufficiently concerned about this they'd buy a commercial preparation specifically for this purpose. I'm sure somebody must make such a thing. Yep, $9/pint on Amazon. I found several articles online with various DIY mixes, most of which have vinegar as the primary active ingredient. A couple recommend vinegar and lemon juice mixed with water. I'm not sure what the lemon juice does that the vinegar doesn't. In this application I'd think it was just the acid content that mattered and the vinegar should have that covered. I bought a big bag of food grade citric acid to use for cleaning the coffee maker. I suppose I could add some of that to vinegar. At least it's all edible.

The most interesting recommendation was to load one spray bottle with undiluted vinegar and one with undiluted hydrogen peroxide. They said spray with vinegar, then with hydrogen peroxide, then rinse. What I thought strange was the recommendation to use this on raw meat to kill E. coli, listeria, and salmonella. I don't know about spraying hydrogen peroxide on raw red meat. It would likely make for quite a foamy display, but I'm not sure I'd want to eat a peroxide blonde steak.

If anyone's interested, the FDA recommends washing fruits and vegetables under cold running water. That's it. They specifically do not recommend commercial preparations. They said to use a stiff brush on firm items like cucumbers or melons.
 
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