Smoked Chicken: August 12, 2017.

Smoking it now.

Flame Boss sent me new pit and meat probes after they weren't working last week.

I plugged them in during a dry run last night. They worked.

I plugged them in today for the actual cook. The pit probe works.

The meat probe said 34 degrees for a second, then stopped working.

I do have another meat thermometer. But the point of the Flame Boss was to have all probes working and connected to the controller.

The orange line is the meat temp. As you can see, it worked for a second at the beginning.

Flame Boss sent me 2 new meat probes. So I'll try them next time.


My first attempt was here: Smoked Chicken.

This is about my second attempt.

Pics:

http://imgur.com/a/MIpr5/layout/grid

I used 2 applewood, 4 hickory this time.

I think I just can't taste smoke the first day, as was also briefly discussed in the earlier thread.

There was good smoke taste during one of the leftover days.

Cooked it for about 4 hours, 13 mins. It reached 155 then. Pit temperature, as shown by the graph, hovered between 250 - 275.

Maybe I could try cooking it longer to see how long it takes to reach 165.

Maybe I could try cooking at ~ 375.

I'm fine with how the skin turns out, it's flavorful to me.

I sprayed the chicken with lemon juice just before 2 hours.

But maybe I could get the same smoke taste with an < 2 hour cook at higher temperature.

Maybe I'll try it, maybe not.

Also, this time I used a seasoned salt + seasoned pepper + rosemary, thyme blend that I've used before in oven roasted chickens.

However, I didn't taste much of the seasoning this time.

During my last cook, I used curry powder, and even after the cook, I could taste it.

I think I need grind the spices into a finer texture when I use this seasoning blend. So it will stick to the chicken more.

I think I'm at a point where I don't have to change any of the cooking process (temperature, wood). But maybe I could for one try, to see how it compares.

Should I get a tobacco grinder? (To make the seasoning blend more of a fine powder).

It looks like it's not posting the whole Flame Boss chart.

Here's the direct link:

http://i.imgur.com/MKLqlO0.png

From both the neck and the back end, carefully run your fingers under the chicken skin to separate it from the meat. Attacking from both ends you should be able to get most of it separated. Don't forget the thighs and legs. Then work your rub into the meat under the skin. Mix it with a little oil if you want. I wouldn't bother with getting the rub overly fine. If you have fresh herbs, just chop them up well with a chef's knife. Fresh rosemary is excellent with chicken and pork. It's very easy to grow and would likely be year round in your area. If the herbs are dried, rub them between your hands first to crumble and bruise the leaves. With herbs like rosemary and thyme the smoke is going to make them take a back seat. They'll be very subtle. If you have fresh, toss a couple sprigs into the chicken cavity.

Six chunks of wood, particularly hickory, is a lot of smoke wood for a single chicken. Hickory is fairly assertive. For a single chicken I'd probably go all apple or a couple apple and one hickory. I've come to prefer the smoke to be complimentary to the meat, not the predominant flavor. But not everyone has the same taste. With a rosemary/thyme rub I'd definitely stick with a lighter smoke wood and relatively little of it at that.

With the curry you mentioned before, I'd bloom the spices by adding them to hot oil and stirring for just a moment. Remove from the heat and let cool. Then rub them under the skin and inside the cavity. With a heavy spice mix like curry you should be able to get away with a lot more smoke and not drown out the spices.

JayHeyl said:

From both the neck and the back end, carefully run your fingers under the chicken skin to separate it from the meat. Attacking from both ends you should be able to get most of it separated. Don't forget the thighs and legs. Then work your rub into the meat under the skin. Mix it with a little oil if you want. I wouldn't bother with getting the rub overly fine. If you have fresh herbs, just chop them up well with a chef's knife. Fresh rosemary is excellent with chicken and pork. It's very easy to grow and would likely be year round in your area. If the herbs are dried, rub them between your hands first to crumble and bruise the leaves. With herbs like rosemary and thyme the smoke is going to make them take a back seat. They'll be very subtle. If you have fresh, toss a couple sprigs into the chicken cavity.

Six chunks of wood, particularly hickory, is a lot of smoke wood for a single chicken. Hickory is fairly assertive. For a single chicken I'd probably go all apple or a couple apple and one hickory. I've come to prefer the smoke to be complimentary to the meat, not the predominant flavor. But not everyone has the same taste. With a rosemary/thyme rub I'd definitely stick with a lighter smoke wood and relatively little of it at that.

With the curry you mentioned before, I'd bloom the spices by adding them to hot oil and stirring for just a moment. Remove from the heat and let cool. Then rub them under the skin and inside the cavity. With a heavy spice mix like curry you should be able to get away with a lot more smoke and not drown out the spices.

Click to expand...

I had used dried rosemary and thyme.

I can try fresh next time.

The seasoned salt and pepper blend I put together includes salt, sugar, paprika, onion powder, garlic powder, corn starch, black pepper, white pepper, cayenne pepper, rosemary, thyme, and a little tarragon.

I've been using this in roasted or smoked chickens since 2012.

Here's what the smoked curry chicken looked like before cooking, in which I was happy with how the curry flavor came out afterwards:

http://i.imgur.com/gmOMUew.jpg

Here's what the seasoning blend smoked chicken looked like before cooking, in which I thought some of the herb flavor was a little too light:

http://i.imgur.com/wbw4fY8.jpg

For the latter, do you think mixing a little oil in this blend, and also using fresh rosemary and fresh thyme will enhance them? Do you have any feedback from looking at the pictures, about how they looked to you?

I use a vertical roaster, so I'm not sure if putting things in the cavity would be worth it since they'd just fall out once I put the chicken on the roaster.

I think I'm also at a point where I might just accept that I can't taste smoke on the same day, I have to wait until one of the leftover days. I was happy with the smoke flavor during those leftover days.

Also, I've thought about whether I should cook it at a higher temperature (~ 375-400) instead of (~230-260 for 4+ hours). But I don't want to change too many things, since I think I'm close to my desired end result.

If I were to change something, I think your herb suggestions are what I'd prefer, vs. the cooking time.

Fresh vs dried... If you have access to fresh herbs in a garden or you golf with Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, then I'd definitely suggest going that way. If you work for a living and don't have an herb garden, I'd probably make do with dried. I have a garden with a rosemary bush. This time of year I could stuff a turkey with rosemary and still have plenty left. The stores want truly ridiculous prices for fresh herbs. My one rosemary plant probably has a retail value of about $50.

Curry is a very flavorful seasoning. It would be quite an accomplishment to hide it. Rosemary, thyme, tarragon are never going to be that assertive. If you're trying to pump up those flavors in the final product, do the under the skin thing I mentioned before. You aren't removing the skin, you're just loosening it so you can get the flavoring right next to the meat. It may help somewhat to apply the flavorings and let them sit on the meat for several hours, possibly even over night. Most of the spices and herbs you mentioned are oil soluble so mixing them with oil will help to distribute their flavors. Even more so if you warm the oil, mix in the spices, and then let it cool before applying. If possible, I would exclude the sugar and the corn starch, applying them like a dry rub just before putting the chicken in the smoker. The corn starch should help in crisping and browning the chicken skin. I'd spit the salt between the dry rub and the wet spice mix.

To be honest, I think you're kind of at cross purposes trying to smoke a rosemary, thyme, tarragon chicken, particularly if you're using a lot of hickory in the smoke wood mix. Herbs tend to be more subtle flavors, really perfuming the meat more than anything else. It's a bit like applying a drop of a subtle perfume and then bathing in English Leather. It would be the rare nose that would detect even a hint of the subtle perfume.

I have noticed the lack of smoke taste on the day of cooking but had always assumed it just took a while for the smoke to fully permeate the meat. If it's smoke fatigue, that might explain why everyone else seems a lot happier with my cooking than I am on the day of the cook.

As to cooking temperature, I personally prefer the very high heat approach with poultry. When going low and slow I find the skin to be flabby and not remotely appetizing. But that's just me. I think mayonnaise was invented by the devil to torture me. So interpret the rest accordingly. If I'm doing thighs and legs for pulled chicken I'll go low and slow to give it more time in the smoke, but I know going in that I'm going to discard the skin. With a whole bird I like for the skin to be crisp and tasty, and the crisp part doesn't happen at low temps. Your use of corn starch might make a difference though.

JayHeyl said:

Fresh vs dried... If you have access to fresh herbs in a garden or you golf with Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, then I'd definitely suggest going that way. If you work for a living and don't have an herb garden, I'd probably make do with dried. I have a garden with a rosemary bush. This time of year I could stuff a turkey with rosemary and still have plenty left. The stores want truly ridiculous prices for fresh herbs. My one rosemary plant probably has a retail value of about $50.

Curry is a very flavorful seasoning. It would be quite an accomplishment to hide it. Rosemary, thyme, tarragon are never going to be that assertive. If you're trying to pump up those flavors in the final product, do the under the skin thing I mentioned before. You aren't removing the skin, you're just loosening it so you can get the flavoring right next to the meat. It may help somewhat to apply the flavorings and let them sit on the meat for several hours, possibly even over night. Most of the spices and herbs you mentioned are oil soluble so mixing them with oil will help to distribute their flavors. Even more so if you warm the oil, mix in the spices, and then let it cool before applying. If possible, I would exclude the sugar and the corn starch, applying them like a dry rub just before putting the chicken in the smoker. The corn starch should help in crisping and browning the chicken skin. I'd spit the salt between the dry rub and the wet spice mix.

To be honest, I think you're kind of at cross purposes trying to smoke a rosemary, thyme, tarragon chicken, particularly if you're using a lot of hickory in the smoke wood mix. Herbs tend to be more subtle flavors, really perfuming the meat more than anything else. It's a bit like applying a drop of a subtle perfume and then bathing in English Leather. It would be the rare nose that would detect even a hint of the subtle perfume.

I have noticed the lack of smoke taste on the day of cooking but had always assumed it just took a while for the smoke to fully permeate the meat. If it's smoke fatigue, that might explain why everyone else seems a lot happier with my cooking than I am on the day of the cook.

As to cooking temperature, I personally prefer the very high heat approach with poultry. When going low and slow I find the skin to be flabby and not remotely appetizing. But that's just me. I think mayonnaise was invented by the devil to torture me. So interpret the rest accordingly. If I'm doing thighs and legs for pulled chicken I'll go low and slow to give it more time in the smoke, but I know going in that I'm going to discard the skin. With a whole bird I like for the skin to be crisp and tasty, and the crisp part doesn't happen at low temps. Your use of corn starch might make a difference though.

Click to expand...

Thanks.

I usually only do a smoked chicken 1-2x a year. Although I've done both 2x recently. I could try to get some fresh herbs, just because it's a special occasion. Even if it's expensive from the grocery store.

Based on the two pictures in post #6, did I get under the skin in any of them?

Yes, I've been putting the flavorings at least 4 hours before the cook. In the past, when doing an oven roasted chicken, sometimes I've had time to do it 6-8 hours before the cook.

Is there a type of oil you recommend? And we are talking about a tiny amount, like 1 teaspoon or something, right? Visually, how do I know how much the right oil amount is?

I think I'm at a point where I try the fresh herbs and oil suggestion (as well as getting under the skin if I'm not already doing so); and maybe during another attempt I try a high heat one.

After that, if I don't like those two times as much, I'd be fine replicating this August 12th cook in the future if I could.

Arun L. said:

Based on the two pictures in post #6, did I get under the skin in any of them?

Click to expand...

It doesn't look like it to me. It appears you rubbed the spice/herb mix over the skin.

To get under the skin you need to first separate the skin from the meat. Start at one end (neck or bottom) and slide a couple fingers between the skin and the meat. Work them back and forth, pushing forward as the skin comes free of the meat. Get as much area as you can reach without tearing the skin. Then do the same thing from the other end. Be sure to work down toward the thighs and legs as best you can. You don't have to get every last square inch, but be as thorough as you reasonably can.

Once you've got the skin separated you can go back in with the rub and spread it around.

This same technique can be used in a variety of ways. Make a compound butter with your favorite spices. Put the butter in waxed paper and squeeze into a roll. Put the roll in the fridge to firm up. Just before putting the bird on the cooker, slice off medallions of the compound butter and distribute them under the skin. The butter will melt during the cook and spread buttery, spicy, herby goodness over the chicken. Just an option. If you want a more purist approach, just slide a few sprigs of rosemary or tarragon under the skin.

Arun L. said:

Is there a type of oil you recommend? And we are talking about a tiny amount, like 1 teaspoon or something, right? Visually, how do I know how much the right oil amount is?

Click to expand...

It's a matter of taste. I'd suggest starting with a neutral flavored oil like canola. Generic vegetable oil would be okay. It's usually a mix but mostly canola. If you're going for a Mediterranean flavor, extra virgin olive oil is a good choice. I would use the cheaper stuff for this.

You can take two slightly different approaches with the mix. You can make a paste with the oil and spices. For this you want to use just enough oil to make the paste. With this I would work the spices and oil together in a mortar and pestle if you have one. If not, just use a sturdy bowl and work the mix with the back of a spoon. You want to lightly crush the spices to release their essential oils.

The other approach is to make a flavored oil. You'd want more oil for this. A cup, maybe half a cup. Do not use good extra virgin olive oil for this. It's a waste. Gently heat the oil and herbs, stirring occasionally, until you get a big hit of herb scent. Turn off the heat and let it cool. This should be used within a few hours, particularly if you're using fresh herbs. If it sits too long there is a small danger of botulism. Treat it like you would fresh meat. You can extend the life a few days by keeping it in the fridge. For application, you just want to stir it up and then spread it under the skin. You can use some on the outside of the skin as well to enhance crisping.

I would mention again that the milder herbs are likely to get lost if you lay on a lot of strong smoke. They'll contribute to the final flavor but you're unlikely to think of it as rosemary (or tarragon) chicken. It will be smoked chicken with some subtle herb notes. If you want to taste the herbs you're going to need to back off on the smoke.

This is very interesting and helpful.

I think I'd either try the compound butter way, or the oil-paste way. Not an outright flavored oil.

So is the goal also to remove the skin from the bird? As I've never done that before when either roasting or smoking a chicken.

How would removing the skin change the final look? Or would it still look similar in the end?

Is there a video on removing the skin that you recommend?

I had read about doing this before, but never tried it since I didn't have any issues with how the final skin came out. But this would give me a reason to try something different, in order to get either the compound butter or oil paste under the skin.

I re-read what I wrote and I guess I wasn't as clear as I could have been. You are NOT trying to remove the skin. You're separating it from the meat so you can work the rub directly into the meat. You want the rub UNDER the skin. Think of it like opening up pockets under the skin into which you can insert seasoning. Done the way I described you shouldn't notice a huge difference in the final product other than more flavor in the meat itself and possibly slightly crisper skin. You can put some rub on the outside of the skin too, though I'd use a light hand because of that under the skin. If you're worried about the skin coming off, do each side of the bird separately, leaving the skin along the breastbone attached to the meat.

I take something like this approach even when I know I'm going to eventually discard the skin. Leaving the skin on protects the meat from drying out while its cooking. I like to use thighs when I'm doing pulled chicken. I'll loosen the skin and work the rub into the meat. Sometimes the skin comes off entirely, in which case I wrap it back around the thigh. It generally stays on okay.

I've removed the skin before cooking and it's not an approach I'd recommend. The outside of the bird definitely dries out. Leaving the skin on during cooking greatly slows evaporation from the meat. It also bathes the meat in the melted fat that's on the inside of the skin. Much juicier bird when cooked with the skin on.

I don't have a specific video to point to. Much of this stuff I learned from watching America's Test Kitchen. They've used this technique on a number of different shows.

Thanks for the follow up.