Chicken skin


 

JSMcdowell

TVWBB All-Star
On my last attempt at chicken, the skin was a failure, slid right off. At least chicken came out wonderful.

Left in a marinade for 3 hours, patted dry, rubbed and let rest in a cooler for 1 hour. Smoked for 1.5 hours at 275, spritzed a few times with apple juice. The AJ gave it a beautiful color, but did not do anything for the skins texture.

I am trying to use a simple method to get a decent skin for my own liking and also my first comp on 10/2. I am doing PP this weekend, but I am going to do chicken once or twice the following weekend.

I read Chris' recipe on Kiawe chicken, and I am thinking I am going to finish the skin on the grill.

My two questions are:

#1 How good does this come out?

#2 How well does it go over at a comp?

Thanks!
 
I don't know the recipe but KCBS chicken falls within fairly narrow parameters. If the profile of the recipe fits, fine.

You will not get good skin simply smoking chicken, imo. Finishing direct or at high heat indirect can help, but usually not enough for comp chicken. For that you need tender skin, and for that, you need to break down the skin's structure using an appropriate marinade, long dry cooking, long moist cooking, direct or indirect high heat, or a combination of these techniques. There are many posts on chicken skin and comp chicken. Search for details on various approaches.
 
JS, ditto what Kevin said. I did my 1st KCBS comp a few weeks ago. Worked on my bird skin for weeks. Two approaches seemed to work for me. 1st, I tried removing skin, scraping skin, and high heat crisping skin. I found with removal I could never get the skin to stay on after cooking, kinda like your experience. I finally found, after a suggestion from another competitor, on pickled pig forum, that minimal trimming will help keep the skin intact. By minimal trimming I mean DO NOT CUT THE SKIN WHEN TRIMMING THE MEAT. i SQUARED UP THE JOINT END AND TRIMMED EXCESS SKIN BUT LEFT ENOUGH TO WRAR AROUND MEAT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. Next I worked on tenderizing skin before cooking. I decided after many tries to use a Papaya extract liquid tenderizer. It is colorless, tastless and all natural. Seems to be pretty good. I also used a manual tenderizer, multi pronged device that is talked about on The Pickled Pig. The cooking process involves initial skin down in Parkay for a few minutes follwed by normal skin up on the grate at about 275 till done. This should get you nice bite thru skin. The final step is the saucing/glazing.
I did brine over night, but think that was more for the meat may have had some benefit on the skin?

Good luck at your first comp, chicken is one of the harder time consuming entries, I believe.

Mark
 
Kevin,

Thank you. I don't plan on using the recipe, Chris just had that he finished the recipe on HH to get better skin.

Mark,

Thanks. I was also afraid of the trying to remove it as people have suggested it, seems like it would just slide right off afterwards. I read a little bit on hear about the Parkay. Guess I will give that a try.

Did the meat come out good with an overnight brine? I would fear thighs would be overbrined at that point.

Thanks again to everyone!
 
JS, The meat was juicy and tender. No salt taste. I use a ratio of 3/4 kosher salt, 3/4 cup raw sugar and about 6 oz good Italian dressing, to one gallon of water for the brine. It has worked well for chicken and pork. I don't need 1 gal of water but I use the same ratio. I then air dry on a rack in the cooler (at comp) or fridge, at home for a couple hrs.

I really couldn't find Parkay tubs here so I used another brand which seemed the same as the parkay sticks that I did find. I really don't know why "Parkay" would make a difference as long as you use a "quality" brand name spread.

Mark
 
Manual multi-pronged tenderizing device?

Sounds complicated. Is it really just a sharp fork? The parkay trick works pretty good too!

The bite thru skin seems like a bbq urban legend. Its pulling teeth to get any kind of help.
 
Were I a judge the first whiff of Parkay or any 'spread': automatic 5 for flavor. That stuff is nasty.

Tenderizing devices are those like Jaccard makes. Done right the holes are virtually unnoticeable. Though, done right, the skin needn't be pierced at all. Skin needs or cook - or 'cook', with the aid of acids, maybe enzymes - long enough to be tender enough to bite through.
 
High 5 for flavor! But nah once u start adding more rub, smoke, and glaze to it u lose the buttery aroma. I'd think with a long acid marinade u would start changing the flavor of the chicken tho.

Fyi No comper here just like good eating.
 
Um, dunno. (5 is below the worst comp score, btw.) I haven't had Parkay or its ilk in over 40 years. I suppose if you load on the flavors maybe it would be smothered. Butter's flavor won't be, but one still would wish to make it just a part of the profile, not dominant.

You won't change the flavor of the chicken simply by marinating. One can cover it up or alter it negatively by marinating, but then that means it's the wrong marinade or one badly made.
 
Sounds like we need more testing! Forks up for that! MMmm can't wait to be tending more smoked chicken.
 
I'm not sure if I'm on the right track or not in regards to how you want the skin but I was thinking that because the skin has been wet for some considerable time in the marinate, it needs to dry out more than just using paper towels and such, you need to place them uncovered in the fridge for the skin to dry out for a few hours in a non-humid environment or if you are in a hurry, use the cold air function on a hair dryer to dry out the skin without the heat (just don't get caught using the wife's hair dryer
icon_biggrin.gif
)Might be enough to dry the skin so that it'd be easier to apply a glaze.
I sometimes use these processes after I've brined chicken pieces.

Cheers

Davo
 
Originally posted by K Kruger:
Were I a judge the first whiff of Parkay or any 'spread': automatic 5 for flavor. That stuff is nasty.

Tenderizing devices are those like Jaccard makes. Done right the holes are virtually unnoticeable. Though, done right, the skin needn't be pierced at all. Skin needs or cook - or 'cook', with the aid of acids, maybe enzymes - long enough to be tender enough to bite through.

That's it! Jaccard. The cooking in the margerine lasts about 10 minutes. I'm sure that Kevin's nose is much better than mine but after several tries I didn't find anything objectionable. These techniques have been used by many competitors and are widly published on the competition forums, not original from me. All of my taste scores were fortunately above 5, and my biggest lack in the taste profile was sweetness, according to my team mate. For my 1st go round I received a 19/36 place for the bird. Not great but encouraging. Part of the fun with comps is getting it together with all the meats, the timing and the commradery with other teams. Gives me something to work on and a goal to look forward to.
Mark
 
it needs to dry out more than just using paper towels and such, you need to place them uncovered in the fridge for the skin to dry out for a few hours in a non-humid environment
That applies to crisp skin, not really for tender, bite-through. It certainly won't hurt but isn't all that vital. For skin to become tender it needs to thin. This occurs with long cooking (which can be shortened via marinating, braising, or a combination).

Crisp-skin chicken works best when the skin is dry. This is because the cooks are relatively short. If the skin is wet or too moist too much time is spent during cooking driving off the moisture (and that moisture makes the surface of the skin cooler, which doesn't help) for the skin to crisp well, or at all.
 
Part of the fun with comps is getting it together with all the meats, the timing and the commradery with other teams. Gives me something to work on and a goal to look forward to.
Quite true.
 
Ahh ok Kevin..completely different technique that I'm not familiar with down here and I kinda misunderstood the result that was being persued.I'll...ummm..crawl back into my little hole now
icon_biggrin.gif


Cheers

Davo
 
The bite thru skin seems like a bbq urban legend. Its pulling teeth to get any kind of help.

I hear you on this one. I'm convinced its some kind of newbie hazing.

What I get tired of is the pitches for the classes. Some people will come out and tell you how much they spent on classes to learn what they have learned and that if you want to know the same then you should buck up. Sure, that's great for some, but we don't have much opportunity around here to take classes. So, I'm stuck being an outsider, and shiggin' for tips and tricks.

Luckily, us VWBB members have a secret bbq agent that works for free and relishes any chance to undermine the KSBC establishment
icon_wink.gif


btw, I'm intrigued by the jaccard idea. Pre-chewed skin seem exactly like something that a KCBS judge would love (no sarcasm intended).
 
Ahh ok Kevin..completely different technique that I'm not familiar with down here


Yeah, its the comp thing.

While it's possible to go for crispy skin for comps, saucing is pretty much expected (there goes crispy), and, also, the chicken pieces (usually thighs) are packed in a styro box that are then hand-carried to the judging area. It's a crap shoot on how long one's chicken will be in the box, covered, before it is opened and judged. The time lag doesn't help. Because of these issues, most competitors shoot for tender, bite-through skin, with appealing texture (when it thins and gets tender it is appealing, unlike rubbery, softer, thicker skin); hence the 'chicken skin' comp-oriented posts one sees hither and yon.
 
btw, I'm intrigued by the jaccard idea. Pre-chewed skin seem exactly like something that a KCBS judge would love (no sarcasm intended).
LOL! (Notwithstanding the lack of intention!)

On the Jaccard: Not required but it can play into your game hand. Its usefulness is dependent on two variables: how you marinate and/or smoke and/or braise, and how you use the Jaccard. My recommendation: Skin only. It's a bit of work and requires a steady hand but plunge the Jaccard (use the one with the most blades) so that it just pierces the skin through, leaving the meat below unscathed. Done well it scarcely looks like it's been touched, especially with a rub on (you can see the effect if you stretch the skin - but don;t leave it stretched), and can facilitate breakdown through marinating and cooking.
 
On the Jaccard: Not required but it can play into your game hand. Its usefulness is dependent on two variables: how you marinate and/or smoke and/or braise, and how you use the Jaccard. My recommendation: Skin only. It's a bit of work and requires a steady hand but plunge the Jaccard (use the one with the most blades) so that it just pierces the skin through, leaving the meat below unscathed. Done well it scarcely looks like it's been touched, especially with a rub on (you can see the effect if you stretch the skin - but don;t leave it stretched), and can facilitate breakdown through marinating and cooking.

thanks as always.

Might give it a try on a few pieces next weekend. My last go around with my new recipe, wasn't as effective at getting perfect skin (but still got us a call). I'd like some extra insurance.

I jumped on a tip from a very respected source, that involved using a wire dog brush on duck skin. Unfortunately, the wires on the brush I bought, weren't stiff enough to get through the skin.
 
One of the few places I use a Jaccard is on duck, specifically skin-on breasts, when I want to keep the skin intact (rather than deeply scored, as one often sees) but still get some decent rendering. I use the larger-bladed Jaccard for that, but do it multiple times, going through the skin and fat but not into the flesh - freezing briefly so that the skin is stiffer helps. (The multiple-smaller-bladed one works too, though.)

Try a Jaccard and, testing, try different methods with different pieces. See what you think. How and how much you trim, whether you marinate and in what, or not, how you smoke and/or braise and in what order, how you hold, can affect results. So try different Jaccard approached first, keeping the rest of the approach the same, to see whether any method works for you and if any one works better than the others. Then, only if necessary, rework the rest of the flow.
 

 

Back
Top