Sharpeners revisited


 

Rick Kramer

TVWBB All-Star
Call me a rookie, but for the life of me I can't get a super sharp edge on my knives using a steel. Mostly I want to be able to achieve and maintain an edge on my two Henckels. Eventually, my main collection will be all Henckels but for now, the rest of my knives are these cheapo "Old Homestead" brand. I can get an edge on all of them but not as sharp as I think it should be. The simpler the system, the better. Electric, fool proof ... better yet!

I'm not beyond using a steel to get a sharper edge just before carving but, I just can't seem to get it down. In the meantime, am I ruining my edges on the Henckels with inaccurate steeling?
 
Originally posted by Rick Kramer:
Call me a rookie, but for the life of me I can't get a super sharp edge on my knives using a steel. Mostly I want to be able to achieve and maintain an edge on my two Henckels. Eventually, my main collection will be all Henckels but for now, the rest of my knives are these cheapo "Old Homestead" brand. I can get an edge on all of them but not as sharp as I think it should be. The simpler the system, the better. Electric, fool proof ... better yet!

I'm not beyond using a steel to get a sharper edge just before carving but, I just can't seem to get it down. In the meantime, am I ruining my edges on the Henckels with inaccurate steeling?

A steel only shapes the edge and does not sharpen. It will not do a thing to a dull knife.

Get yourself and AccuSharp Sharpener, if you don't have a sharp knife I will buy the AccuSharp from you! You can find them cheaper on Amazon, I got one for $8 plus shipping. I use them on my Wustof's and Forschner's and my knives have never been sharper!
 
Steeling is meant to finish or maintain a sharpened edge, not achieve it. You need a sharpener. Though I don't care for electrics (imo, they remove too much metal), that would be better than not sharpening them. Another problem with electrics is that their angles are set for typical American and Euro knives. Fine, that's what you have, but hand sharpening means you can tighten the angle a bit, something I think is beneficial for Henckels. That means going with stones or getting a system that allows for adjusting angles (that would be my choice). Go with all Henckel's if you wish but I'd suggest other avenues before going down that road.
 
Thanks Larry. Seems almost too easy!

I'm listening Kevin! What system that allows for angles do you suggest? The Henckels are actually an annual gift from my mother-in-law. I could always suggest another brand to try out.
 
Originally posted by Rick Kramer:
The simpler the system, the better. Electric, fool proof ... better yet!

In the meantime, am I ruining my edges on the Henckels with inaccurate steeling? am I ruining my edges on the Henckels with inaccurate steeling?

If your steel is grooved or diamond coated then yes, you may be damaging them some (but don't worry, they should shape up & last fine unless you've really taken a lot of metal off).

If this is the case, first get yourself a ceramic "steel". This is much less heavy handed and better for maintaining the edge (which isn't really put on by a steel at all).

Sharpening:

For simplicity and speed, the chefs choice model 110 (or higher) is a pretty well recommended electric sharpener. They have several newer models that I assume (dangerous) should work like the old model 110. These will run $80-$130 or so. Just make sure it has three slots, and the knife can run all the way to the hilt. Don't be tempted by the cheaper models (300,310) etc. They work but won't sharpen the handle end of the knife cause you can't stick it in far enough to begin with(especially on a forged Henckels or similar). Be aware that these will scratch up the knife a bit near the edge so your Henckels won't look as pretty after a while.

If you want to spend a little time doing it yourself, taking care not to scratch them as much and getting a somewhat better edge than is possible with the chefs choice, I recommend the Spyderco Sharpmaker 204. I bought mine from New Graham (online site) and love it it. I think Amazon has them now. Your restricted to a 15 and 20 degree angle (30 and 40 overall) but this is no biggie if your just interested in making your kitchen knives sharp. I use mine on my pocket knifes as well. Having two angle settings also allows you to double bevel, making the edge a bit stronger and last a bit longer (again nice for kitchen knives). I was in your situation, this was the route I went, I am satisfied. My Henckels are sharper than when new.

If you want to sharpen yourself, take a bit more time still, but be able to get any edge you want while still not having to learn freehand, you should get an EdgePro Apex. These are about $125 for basic setup. I bought the spyderco because it is faster setup, and it cost less than half this price.

In retrospect, I wouldn't mind the setup time on an EdgePro since I only sharpen every 6-8 months anyway. Still the cost is a factor. And that said, I also long for an elctric at times cause I have three small children and don't have a lot of time. I sometimes find myself whipping out the spyderco for a kitchen knife, wishing I could sharpen all my knives while it's out, but only having time for 2 or 3 (about 20-30 minutes). An electric would allow me to sharpen all my knives in this time. An EdgePro would take longer- I would have to do it after kids were in bed. But the results (I'm guessing) would probably make it worthwhile. Personally if I had one of these I'd probably just make a "sharpening day" out of it every 8 months or so and offer to sharpen family/friends knives as well.
 
As for that accusharp Larry mentioned, depending on the angle (ie is it close to 30 degrees) you might be able to use that to put a basic edge on then use a spyderco or similar stone setup afterwards to get a finer finish. I have something similar to accusharp and use it on really dull knives before the sharpmaker- makes the process much faster. Alternatively they have more aggressive rods you can buy for the sharpmaker which should also speed up and probably work better- but they cost mega-$.

Sorry my message was so long before. If you have time and wish to learn more than you care about sharpening, I highly suggest this site...

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=26036

This is where my recommendations came from, although they have others as well. And a lot of knowledge on freehand/stones which I didn't bother touching on.
 
Has anyone here used a waring-pro electric sharpener model ks80? I can't find much info on it but a local store has them for 39.99 (they are $99 everywhere online). Looks very similar to chefs choice from the box. If I knew that they were made by chefs choice, and sharpened the whole edge, I might grab one at that price just to try when I'm in a hurry.
 
Rick,

I use an EdgePro Apex and like it a lot. More $ but I get the precision fine knives need and that I require. There are others out there (though not many) that allow for angle adjustment.

It's not that Henckels knives are problematic, it's just that I would suggest not necessarily going with a single brand for all your knives as you might well prefer different knife types (chefs, boning, fillet, etc.) from different manufacturers--I know I do.

I have been using knives from Japanese makers for over 20 years now and far prefer them to the French and German blades I used to have. (The harder steel and process used means more acute angles are used for edges (they stay sharper longer too) but this means systems/machines with set angles (typically set for Euro/American knives) will not work well at all.) Shun, Global, Tasagato, Tojiro, Misono, Glestain, are the brands I use. Not saying you should go that route but I'd highly suggest checking out, say, the chefs from Shun and the boning knife fron Tojiro.

Willie,

Good posts. Just a POI: As one gets used to the EdgePro one gets faster. I do larger knives in less than 10 min each. So when and if you're next in the market for a system...
 
Tons of info here. Knife sharpening
I'm with Kevin on not buying all the same brand of knife. I do have a Wusthoff set, which I like. I also have several high end knives, all different manufactures. Kasumi, Porsche, Al Mar, and Shun. But if I had to pick just one brand from those that I own and use it would be Shun. That D shaped handle is just so comfortable in my hand. Even though it's a small handle and I have large hands, it just feels so right in my hand. I do want to try a Global, that will be my next knife purchase. HTH
EDIT, Hours Later:
As far as the steel goes, here's what it does. The steel straightens out the edge of the knife. When you use your knife to cut, chop, etc the very thin edge of the blade folds over. The steel straightens the folded edge back out. But once the edge is gone, the steel does nothing. I'm tanked right now so if this doesn't make sense I'm sorry.
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Kevin,

I long ago decided an EdgePro would be my next major sharpening purchase, if there is one. Thanks for the affirmation
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Regarding speed, I bet you sharpen more knives/more often than I do considering you're work. I doubt I'd ever get as fast as you on any system. I just sharpened my santoku (thread got me itching). It took 5 min. However it was really just a touch up. It honestly takes me 10-20 min per knife when they're dull. Which reminds me another thing that probably helps your speed- you work with your knives. I bet you don't "let them go" too much. I'm sure it bothers you (and others here in food service) to have a dull knife much sooner than it would bother us typical home users (is anyone here typical?
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). Anyway, that's another point to remember... don't let you're knives get really dull. Sharpen/steel them often, and it's less work to sharpen them. I use ceramic rod on mine just before I use them (try to remember this every time and the edge holds better).
 
I agree about the multiple brand knives. All my "good" knives are Henckels b/c I chanced upon a block set on mega-clearance at JC Penney for $35. Couldn't turn that down. If not for that, I don't think I'd have bought a block set at all. I'd love to have some japanese steel, but can't justify the money currently.

My next knives will be a slicer and a larger chefs. I think I'd like a 10in chef vs my 8in Henckels. And the 8in carver in the Henckels set I never use since the 8in chef can do basically same job. Will probably be looking at Forschner , Dexter or Mundial for price reasons, though I'd love for that new chef knife to be japanese
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For the slicer I could really care less- any decent quality stamped is fine. I don't think forged is necessary for my slicer- don't see the need for the weight and I won't use it often enough to care as much about the feel. I see good reviews on some of the cheaper Dexter chef knives, but I LOVE the weight/feel of the forged chef and don't know if I would like a stamped anymore.

Don't know a thing about Mundial, are they any good? A local store has some and they feel good in hand (which is probably more important to me than anything else)

Anyone have anything to say about this knife (or ordering from the website for that matter)?
http://www.instawares.com/f-dick-hollow.fdi-8039136.0.7.htm
 
Thanks for the excellent info guys! I think I actually kind of get it now.
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Got more I'd like to say, but I'm packing for the Mt Vernon contest and it's trying to rain on me. Talk to y'all after the contest.
 
Willie-- I have ordered things other than knives from Instawares without issue. I do not know that particular knife from F Dick but I have used other slicers of theirs and would recommend them.

I am not a stamped fan either. I too dislike the feel and, more important, the softer metal used. One cannot achieve a fine edge of any longevity with soft metal; it loses it too soon.

You might check out Tojiro's DP series. They are reasonably priced. I use their honesuki a lot (boning poultry, trimming spares). You might like either their 240mm or 270mm gyutou (chefs) knife.

Don't be so quick to sell yourself short. You obviously know enough about the importance of knife maintenance and know that sharpening is both easier and faster if the knife is not allowed to get too dull. That said, it is unlikely, imo, that it would take you very long to become naturally quicker using a system like EdgePro's. At first it seems a little dauting but the site videos or included DVD are good. One gets the hang of it fairly quickly but still goes slow, at first, to establish a rhythm. After a few knives one notices a natural speed increase and after a few sharpening sessions, tops, the speed increases to a comfortable level--not too fast that results (or safety) is compromised, fast enough so that sharpening is not something to shy from.

On edit: I should note that there are several brands that make stamped knives from quality steel that is not of the softer variety. These, as expected, are more costly than those made from softer metal. Both MAC and Global, among others, use stamped for some of their lines. The quality of these rivals that of forged, imo, because the metal is better.
 
Kevin,

Thanks for tip. Wow, that does look like good deal on a knife with hardness of 60. But then I'd need to buy an EdgePro for sure.

I wonder if the 9.4in would make enough of a length difference over the 8in Henckels or if I'd be happier with the length, weight of 10.5in? You may get me in trouble with wife!
 
That will likely depend on how big (tall) you are and how big your hands are. I tend to use 8- and 9-inch chefs more than 10- or 11-inch ones (I'm 5'9" and do not have either long arms nor large hands for my size). I find those too long for me. I do use them but only for specific tasks and thus not often. Same logic: I find the typical 6- or 7/7.5-inch santoku too small to be my go-to knife (they also do not have the 'right' blade shape). I have a couple but those too are used for tasks for which I find them appropriate.

If you have not seen this vid take a look. The knife is in good shape to begin with, not dull; sharpened in just over 3.5 min and that includes figuring out the proper angle.
 
What do you guys think of Cutco knives. They are an absolute fortune, but I have come to be really impressed by them over the last couple of years.
 
I've used them just twice--which was plenty. I have no idea what they cost but found their perfomannce very lacking. They are not very sharp (in both cases they were new) and do not slice or cut well. At least when compared to quality knives.
 
Originally posted by K Kruger:
That will likely depend on how big (tall) you are and how big your hands are. I tend to use 8- and 9-inch chefs more than 10- or 11-inch ones (I'm 5'9" and do not have either long arms nor large hands for my size).

I'm just over 6ft, but I am kinda long limbed. I've just always felt my 8in Henckels would be better if it was just a bit longer, so I always figured if I bought another I would try a 10in. Hence my dilemna. The smaller knife you linked me to is 9.4- the extra 1.5 inch might be just enough to make me happy without getting the 10.5in model. Wish I had a good store nearby where I could readily play with knives not bolted down like at dept. stores. Course if I did, I probably wouldn't be looking on internet to buy. The only knife store I've been to here is both expensive and a long drive to boot.
 

 

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