Whole Pork Shoulder

Any advice for smoking a whole pork shoulder... its about 17LBs and is a mighty impressive looking hunk of pork...This will be my first effort at the whole shoulder so any thoughts would be much appreciated...

Welcome to the board Andrew.

Personally i don't see an advantage in keeping whole shoulders whole, so for the times i happen to get one I don't. I separate the butt from the picnic and cook that way.

If you want to cook whole that's fine of course. Measure the meat and make sure it will fit okay. Plan to place some foil around the edges (if using a WSM or similar cooker) so as to protect the meat that is nearest the sides of the cooker from being constantly buffeted with direct heat. And plan for a very long cook.

thanks. And thanks also for the virtual weber bullet site. Its been a huge help in my BBQing...or perhaps has fed a growing addiction to smoked meats...by the way the pastrami recipe on the site doesn't get enough credit. Whenever I make it, people rave...

One small follow on question on pork should and ribs...in comparing my BBQ to many of the photo's sent it, I seem to not be creating the type of bark that others do...any thoughts on mistakes I might be making that would inhibit bark creation...even my renown mr brown was relatively light on bark...

thanks for the help.

Andrrew

Are you foiling during the cook? If so that would definately hinder the bark formation. If not a liberally applied dry rub and a good hunk of time in the smoker at low temps (anywhere from 225 to 300, depending how fast you want to cook it) you should be getting bark.

I guess it you describe what your doing from start to finish that would help a little.

Have fun with the whole shoulder. I do them quite often. I can get them cheaper from the butcher. Should cook up the similar to the butt or picnic by themselves though so if you've done that you should be just fine.

Kevin, why do you seperate? Cooking times? To much meat at once?

Clark

Foiling shouldn't have much to do with bark problems unless you are foiling very early, before bark forms at all. If foiling late (or later) in the process its use might very well soften the bark already formed, but the original texture can be restored simply by returning the meat to the cooker for several minutes, unfoiled, when the foiled phase is completed.

I, e.g., foil ribs late in the process if I foil. The bark is well established by this time. When unfoiled, I return the ribs to the cooker to re-establish the bark texture. This only takes a few minutes (the cooker is in the mid-300s). Others foil earlier but return the ribs to the cooker unfoiled for a much longer period of time. That works too.

I foil brisket as well. Because I do not return it to the cooker after unfoiling (I really don't care about have a particularly textured bark on brisket) the bark remains soft. Butts I never foil during cooking.

Foiling aside, bark formation problems usually come from a lack of coverage, i.e., applying the rub too lightly, or from ingredient issues.

I don't include salt in rubs that I make. I salt the meat first, separately, and allow the salt to draw moisture to the surface. Then I apply the salt-free rub to the meat over the salt. This allows me to apply as much as I want without affecting the salt level. That is something you might try (though I would suggest using a more flavorful, better ingredient rub than Mr Brown).

Clark-- Yes, I separate because of cooking time.

Kevin,

Since you mentioned it...what rub would you suggest for a pork shoulder?

Thanks for the advice.

Andrew

Also, what is the theory behind wrapping meat in tinfoil? Is it to get a braising effect or is it for self basting or is it something entirely different?

Do you do this for pork ribs and shoulder? Do you recommend it for beef brisket as well?

Thanks so much.

Andrew

The theory behind wrapping the meat in tin foil really is like you said a bit of a braising affect. The purpose would be to speed up the cook and get a more consistent finish. Personally I do not foil butts. I foil brisket every time but this is because I prefer to do high heat brisket cooks. For ribs I'm about 50 50 on whether or not I foil. It depends on if I am lazy or in a rush or whatever! It works out either way though.

For a rub are you looking sweet, spicy, salty? Just wondering thatn we can give you some more ideas!

Clark

These are similar, but try one like this or this.

Note the comment on keeping salt out of the rub and salting first, separately. Since we're talking butt, see this as well. It is a vinegar sauce I use with some things but not the comment [in brackets] on using it as a finishing sauce for pulled pork. I use it this way all the time.

On foil: Yes, correct, it is used for a braising or steaming effect, depending on whether one adds anything to the foil. If one adds something flavorful (I use a juice blend--usually pimeapple mixed with concentrated tamarind--for ribs) then it can adda flavor layer. I foil brisket but do not add anything to the foil; other cooks sometimes do.

Foil also has 'side effects' which, truth be told, are sometimes the primary reasons for its use: it speeds cooking, and it protects the meat from direct heat. In the first case, foil can be used well into a cook if time seems to be running out or it can be a planned thing and used to cut the overall cooktime; for the latter, many meats cooked at high heats. (I and others cook briskets ~325, foil after ~2.5 hours into the cook, then cook till tender, often at even higher temps.) High heat cooking forces a lot of evaporation and speeds rendering. This can be just fine for a while, but to facilitate evenness of cooking (higher heat cooking tends to be uneven) and to retain more moisture and rendering, foil works wonders. (Though I also cook ribs at high heat I don't always foil. For ribs it is more of a flavor layer thing for me, as noted. Though the heat is high, ribs aren't that thick--unlike brisket--and one can cook at high heat without foil.)

Because foil speeds cooking 'done' will be achieved sooner, regardless of whether one is low/slowing or cooking at high heat. This needs to be remembered.

I don't foil butts but some people do. Some do it only to speed the cook if necessary, and others always do it because they prefer the results.

Very large items like chuck rolls are usually foiled (often when the internals hit the 160s) so as to speed the cook and to protect the outer portions of the roast. These are very long cooks and multiple hours of heat can eventually dry the surface irreparably, mostly due to the grainy nature of chuck. Though shoulders as well, pork butt (or whole shoulder) doesn't really require foiling per se, but it can be helpful to even out cooking and to make the cook shorter. I'd rather separate the arm from the butt but if you'd prefer going whole, have foil available and consdider it as an option if you wish. For pork shoulder I wouldn't bother foiling till the first plateau was broken, say ~170 internal.

I was writing (a treatise!) while you were posting, Clark.

Kevin and Clark, thanks so much.
I really appreciate the insights.
Andrew

Clark...I like sweet and heat...any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Kevin, I think your advice to pre-salt prior to rub was great.
I had read your advice to a previous novice, and have been following it for sometime..

A couple of other questions...Since I am getting a schooling in smoking, I may as well ask ...

Everyone seems to say that when you take a big piece of meat (brisket or shoulder) out of the smoker, you should wrap it in foil and put it in a cooler...but for how long...I know how long to let a steak rest, but how long is optimal for a brisket or a pork shoulder...Or maybe it doesn't really matter?

Also, should I bother worrying about the difference between the temperature at the top of the smoker (i've got candy thermometer stuck in the top vent) and the temp on the lower rack?

Do you guys have any advice on coals. I've basically been using Kingsford per the instructions on this site with a few chunks of hardwood...have you guys tried other brands of charcoal and is it worth it?

And finally how much pineapple juice and how much tamerine pre slab of ribs...

many thanks.
Andrew

Hey Andrew, for a pork shoulder or brisket I would rest for at least an hour. Rule of thumb is probably half an hour but I wouldn't go below an hour. I find that it makes a considerable difference in letting the juices redistribute the longer you are able to let it rest. I often times rest for three or four hours with no detrimental affects. Basically I do this on purpose to insure the meat is cooked on time. The meat stays warm wrapped in tin foil and towels in a cooler. Some pre heat their coolers but I don't. To much effore and really the heat retention is great as is. It definately matters though. Don't go under 30 minutes.

As for difference in temp between all the racks in the smoker. I personally don't but many sure do. I just use a therm through the top vent. I don't use water in the pan (or clay pot or anything just an empty water pan) unless I am trying to keep temps really low like smoking cheese and things along those lines. Like this I find that the bottome rack is hotter than the lid temp (about 15 - 20 degrees) and the top rack is within five degrees of the lid temp. Not enough for me to worry about. I also don't really monitor the internals of the meat during cooking. Once it's on it's on until it's done to my liking regardless of temp. The thing is finding what you like and then it will be soooo easy. Trial and error is really the only way to find that. Don't get to caught in the temps though.

For coals I always use lump. I find it gives me far more flexibility. I get far less ash and I have way more control over my temperatures. I can jack them up ridiculously high (more pertinent in the kettle) or keep them very low. I can't get the same temp range with briquettes (on the high end not the low). I don't experience the lower burn times either. I have used Maple Leaf, Royal Oak, and Natures. Kevin will have used many more! All of the above work fine though. I had started with K but don't go near it now, it is virtually the same price in my neck of the woods and it doesn't have as many benefits in my books.

How much juice when you foil, I use about a quarter cup or so (free pour) into each rack of ribs, tightly wrapped.

I'll get back to you with a rub I use soon although Kevin had some good sugestions above as well.

Anyways have a good night and hopefuly I didn't rant to much on you!

Clark

Ok for a simple rub that I often use:

2 T ground Cacabel Peppers
2 T Minced Garlic
1 T Aleppo Pepper
1 T Raw Sugar
1 T Minced Onion
1 t Cinnamon

This works out well for me anyways.

Clark

Clark,

I have just ordered the Aleppo and Cascabel peppers from Penzeys and will make your rub as soon as they arrive many thanks ( I had never heard of either, so I am eager to try them)

I assume the directions are put everything in a bowl, mix and then rub pork shoulder with a healthy coat of mixture....

Cheers,
Andrew

You bet!

Juices quite redistributing pretty much within 20-30 minutes of meat removal (for whole poultry, loins, butts and briskets) and much less for thinner or smaller items (ribs, steaks, etc.). However, juices do not start redistribution until the temps starts cooling. If one removes meat and immediately wraps it and holds it in a cooler, say, juice redistribution is delayed. Instead, continued cooking occurs, at least for a little while (the actual time will depend on how hot the item is and that depends on cooktemp and how it is handled immediately post cook). I tend to cook to the point of tenderness I am looking for while still in the cooker so I do not wrap and hold as I do not seek additional cooking. (Butts have a wide done window so, for them, I am not that concerned. Briskets are another thing. They can overcook in foil after being removed from the cooker, especially those cooked at high heat.) If I will be needing to hold then I either pull a bit sooner than the 'done' I want, allowing residual cooking to carry it there, plus add time for the resting phase or, more often, I cook to the point of tenderness I do seek, rest without wrapping (I just tent with foil) to allow for some heat dissipation and juice redistribution, then wrap and hold.

I foil with the amount Clark notes, about 1/4 c/rack, individually wrapped. A b it less for back ribs. The pineapple-tamarind is about 3:1, but the tamarind is stronger than one would typically make (I don't use much water per hunk of pulp when I make it). This adds the fruity-but-sour note I seek, cutting the sweetness of the pineapple.

I never worry about the difference in grate temps. I cook with an empty pan (except for very low-temp cooks like when I smoke bellies for bacon) and don't find that differences, if any, are worth concerning myself with. As Clark says: Don't get caught in the temps. Not a few end up with less-than-desired results because they are concerned with hitting some specific internal temp. Be concerned with tenderness--not with internal temp.

I go through a lot of Aleppo. It appears in many rubs I make for barbecue, for steaks, for fish. I sprinkle it on scrambled eggs, pizza, cut fruits, salads. By volume, I use more of it than anything else I have--and I have dozens of spices, herbs and chilies.

Note that for butt, if salting first as I do, you can lay on a layer of rub (after the salt draws moisture) then, if desired, wait several minutes, again, for the rub to moisten up as the salt draws more mositure, then apply another layer over the first.

One small follow on question: If you guys aren't filling the water pan with water, whats it there for? Is it mainly deflecting heat to ensure the meat is "indirectly heated" and to catch drippings or is there some other reason?

Nope you nailed it on the head.

Follow up question on foiling ribs....the ones I made last night were among my best efforts so I want to continue to tune this approach.

a) how long into the smoke do you put them in foil
b) for how long do you leave them in the foil
c) when you pour the pineapple/tamarind into the foil packet, do you put the ribs meat side down or up?
d) do you take them out of the foil for the final part of the smoke? How long does this phase last?

Thanks,
Andrew