Salt vs. sugar in rubs


 

John Mason

TVWBB All-Star
This weekend did two slabs of spares. One I put my usual rub with a lot of brown sugar in it and very little salt, the other I used a rub with no sugar, but a considerable percentage of salt.

As they sat waiting to go on the smoker, the "sugared" one became very wet. The "salted" one's appearance stayed completely dry. When they were done and rested, the "salted" one was much more moist when I sliced the ribs apart, the "sugared" one was noticeably drier.

And I thought salt attracted moisture. I know one attempt isn't enough to make generalizations about, but I will definitely continue this comparison and see what results I get. I likely the juiciness of the "salted" ones much better. Family concurred.
 
I've been a big fan of low sugar rubs for my pork cooking. I like some sugar though. Can't say I know anything about the chemistry going on, just that I like a bit o' sugar in my rub.

For beef though, I use no sugar.

AR
 
But I did run into this on the web:

"Salt myths and urban legends
Opinion by JOE O'CONNELL, cbbqa Past President
Updated October 12, 2001 at 7:58 AM PDT (1538 GMT)

Salt has been used since antiquity to preserve and season food. An accompanying story discusses the types and science of salt. However, there are many myths and urban legends about salt, and they will be reviewed here.

Most cooks misuse salt, and many (perhaps most) recipes err in how salt should be used.

As explained in the accompanying story, the human tongue detects salt very easily and then wakes up the nose. The net effect is that food with salt tastes better than food without it - for exactly the same reason that food tastes better to a person who does not have a stuffed-up nose than it does to someone with a stuffed-up nose.

Here are the common myths and urban legends about salt and food.

Myth: Salt meat before cooking
As a general rule, in my opinion, salting meat before cooking it is not a good idea. Salting meat after it is cooked helps the flavor. But salt draws moisture out of the surface of the meat. If salt is left on the surface of meat for a significant period of time, the salt will dehydrate the meat. Usually, this is not a good idea before cooking meat.

There are exceptions. If the meat is going to be cooked quickly (like a grilled steak) and if the salt is added just before cooking, then the salt will neither help nor hurt the meat (i.e. there will be no noticeable difference in the outcome). There is too short a period of time for the salt to dehydrate the surface of the meat. Nevertheless, although this will not hurt the meat, the salt will not help it.

Another exception is for the preservation of meat. Salting acts to dehydrate both the meat and the bacteria on the meat. As a result, the meat dries, and spoilage (rotting) is retarded.

For barbecue, the addition of salt (or any other sodium, like MSG) to a rub or marinade before cooking will affect the meat by dehydrating the meat's surface. Sometimes, this is desirable, because the texture of the surface will be very different from the texture of the interior -- as with burnt ends of beef brisket and the bark of pork shoulder. I think that many barbecue meats are too dry because of the addition of the salt to the outside of the meat.

Why is this urban legend so popular? Probably because few cooks have conducted controlled experiments (blind-taste tests) of their rub or marinade recipes so that they can compare the results and determine the difference. The major problem is that barbecue cooks rarely conduct a controlled test. The best rule: add salt to raw vegetables (which typically are not cooked slowly, and do not lose moisture) and add salt to cooked meat.

Myth: Adding salt to boiling water speeds the cooking time
Adding salt to boiling water to speed cooking time is a myth. It is often said that adding salt to boiling water will increase the boiling point of water and thus speed the cooking time. To be extremely precise: the addition of salt does increase the boiling temperature and thus decrease the cooking time, but the changes are miniscule: much too small to be noticeable or significant. In other words: nice theory, but wrong on a practical level.

Adding salt may add saltiness to the food, but it will not change the cooking time. More information is on the Bad Chemistry website.

Myths: Kosher salt is kosher, comes from the Dead Sea, is blessed by a rabbi, and contains no additives
Kosher salt (1) is kosher; (2) comes from the Dead Sea; (3) is blessed by a Rabbi; and (4) contains no additives. All are false. Kosher salt refers to any coarse-grain salt that is used to make meat kosher. Kosher salt usually is mineral salt, which may mined anywhere. A rabbi does not "bless" the salt to make it kosher (although Morton's Coarse Kosher Salt in the past has claimed to be packaged under Rabbinical supervision). As with any other salt, some commercial Kosher salt (like Morton's Coarse Kosher Salt) uses anti-caking additives to make it free-flowing. Kosher salt is usually free from iodine additives.

Myth: One part of table salt equals two parts of kosher salt
It is only half-correct that one part of table salt equals two parts of kosher salt. It depends on how the salt is used.

Not all kosher salts weigh the same. For example, ordinary table salt weighs 10 oz. per cup; Morton's Coarse Kosher Salt weighs 7.7 oz. per cup; and Diamond Crystal Kosher Salt weighs 5 oz. per cup. (The difference is explained because of the differing sizes of the kosher salt grains.) One grain of Diamond Crystal Kosher Salt is much larger than one grain of table salt.

If the kosher salt is going to be used in cooking, then the same amount by weight should be used. Why? Because salt is soluble, so its original form (as kosher or table salt) is unimportant in the final recipe. In general, substitute twice as much Diamond Crystal Kosher Salt for table salt, but substitute only 1 1/3 measures of Morton's Coarse Kosher Salt for one measure of table salt.

However, if the salt is to be added to a finished dish, then twice as much kosher salt is needed to equal the "saltiness taste" of one part of table salt. Why? Because the surface area of one grain of kosher salt is much less than the same weight (and more grains) of table salt. Thus, on the tongue, a teaspoon of table salt tastes "saltier" than a teaspoon of kosher salt.

Surface area of salt
The surface area of Kosher salt is much less than the surface area of an equal amount (by weight) of table salt. Here's the reason.

Assume that a single grain of Kosher salt is a perfect cube which is 4x4x4. Basic geometry shows that the interior area of the grain is 4^3, or 64. However, its surface area of the cube is 96 -- the area of each surface is 16, and there are 6 surfaces.

However, assume that a single grain of table salt is 1/8 the size of a grain of Kosher salt, so that a single grain of table salt is a perfect cube that is 2x2x2. Basic geometry shows that interior area of each grain is 2^3, or 8. The total interior areas of 8 grains of table salt is 64, which is the same as one grain of Kosher salt. However, the surface area of each grain of table salt is 24 (6 surfaces of 2x2 each), and, since there are 8 grains of table salt that weigh the same (in this example) as one grain of Kosher salt, the surface area of eight grains of table salt equals 192 (24 x 8).

In this example, a grain of Kosher salt has a surface area of 96, while the same weight in table salt has a surface area of 192. The result: because the human tongue interacts with the surface of the salt grains, the table salt seems to be twice as salty as the same amount of Kosher salt.

But, to demonstrate the proof: compare a dish sprinkled with one gram of Kosher salt with the same dish sprinkled with one gram of table salt. The latter will taste twice as salty as the former, because the surface areas are different. However, if the gram of Kosher salt is run through a food processor to reduce the size of the salt grains to the table salt size, the two salts will taste exactly the same because they are exactly the same."
 
Contrasted by this:

"Kitchen Notes: Brining
In several articles, I've mentioned the need to brine chicken or pork to produce juicier, more flavorful, and tender cooked meats. The net effect of brining is to infuse the meat with extra salt (and sometimes sugar and other flavorings) and water. But how does brining work? In this article, I examine what happens when you brine.

What does brining do?
Brining is the soaking of meat in a solution of water and salt. Additional flavorings like sugar and spices can also me added, but salt is what makes a brine a brine (just like acid makes a marinade a marinade). This soaking causes the meat to gain some saltiness and flavoring while plumping it up with water so that after cooking it still contains a lot of juices.

The explanation for why brining works that I hear most often is that by surrounding the meat with salt water, salt and water are forced into the tissue through osmosis. Unfortunately, I've never been happy with that explanation. Osmosis is when a solvent (usually water or other liquid that can hold another substance, called the solute, in solution - like salt) moves from a low solute concentration (like the tissue of the meat) to a high solute concentration (like the salt water) through a semipermeable membrane (a surface that allows small particles to pass but not larger ones - like the cell membranes of our chicken or pork) to form an equilibrium. Hmmm... wait a minute. If that's true then water will be drawn from the low salt concentration meat to the high salt concentration salt water. At the same time, if the salt can enter the meat (which it can), then salt will be moving from salt water to meat. Won't that result in a salty, dry piece of poultry or pork?

Obviously, there's more going on than simple osmosis. It is true that salt enters the meat (it tastes more salty after brining). But why is it also more juicy? Well, when water flows out of the meat, salt flows in and begins to break down some of the proteins in the cells. In the broken down state, the molecules become more concentrated and the solute levels rise within the meat. This causes additional water to flow into the meat.

But doesn't that mean we've got the same amount of water as before brining? Nope. The cell membranes are semipermeable. They allow salt and water to flow in both directions freely, but larger molecules (like the denatured proteins and other solutes in the meat released by the salt) cannot flow out from within the cells. When the solutes of a solution on one side of a semipermeable membrane cannot pass to the other side, osmosis causes more and more solvent to move through the semipermeable membrane. This continues until the extra pressure from holding more solvent equals the rate at which solvent is "drawn" through the semipermeable membrane. (This rate is called osmotic pressure. How Stuff Works has a short article describing osmotic pressure with a diagram that may be helpful to visualize the water flow.)

What has happened is that through brining, we've caused a state change in the cells so that they will draw and hold more water than before. As we cook the meat, the heated proteins will begin to draw in tighter and squeeze out water, but, hopefully, enough water will remain to produce a juicy, tender piece of meat.

Brining Solution
So, how much salt in water is used for brining? That really depends on how long of a brine you want and how salty you want the final product. A weak brine will require a longer brining time to achieve the same saltiness as a strong brine. When I need a moderate strength brine, I use 1/2 cup (about 150 g) of table salt per gallon of water. (Higher concentrations of salt can be used to reduce brining times, but the amount of salt and the time it takes to brine is dependent on the muscle structure of the particular piece of meat.) Using kosher salt is a common practice, but different manufacturers grind the salt to different levels of coarseness, so kosher salt should be weighed before adding to water. For small amounts of salt, the salt can be dissolved into cold water, but for larger quantities it may be necessary to heat the water to dissolve the salt.

Brining Time
Always start with a cold brine. If you heated the brine, then refrigerate it before using it. The raw meat will be in the brine for a number of hours, so we don't want the temperature of the meat to rise higher than refrigerator temperatures (40°F, 4°C) if we can help it. Place the brine in a noncorrosive container like a plastic or glass container, plastic bag, or a stainless steel pot.

The brining time depends on the shape of your meat as well as the type of meat. Generally, a good rule of thumb is 2 hours per pound of solid poultry when using the 1/2 cup salt per gallon brine. Cut up poultry will have reduced brining time. For chicken pieces like breasts or thighs, 2 hours is usually enough time. Pork may take about four times as long to brine as poultry. In most cases, it's difficult to predict how fast the salt moves into the meat when you double or halve the salt in the brine, but it's worth experimenting with to have your brining "finish" at a time where you will be around to remove the meat from the brine.

When you remove the meat from the brine, rinse off the excess salt from the surface and return the meat to the refrigerator to await cooking. Pour out the brine after each brining. (No need to have a half gallon of raw meat juice infused salt water lying around growing germs...)" From Cooking for Engineers
 
Holy Mackerel! I could do a dissertation now!

"When salt is applied to meat, either dry or in a solution, it creates two effects. It begins to remove moisture and it begins to toughen meat. The first may be countered by reducing the amount of salt, waiting until food is ready to go on the grill to apply the salt or waiting until the meat is partially or fully cooked. The second effect can be ameliorated by the same and the addition of sugar." According to Smoky
 
Art, maybe I missed something in the article,is he saying that osmosis only occurs when you brine not when you salt meat prior to cooking? Then ,if that is the case .you wouldn't need salt in your rubs other than to enhance taste.
 
I think that is what it says too. However, the combination of sugar and salt is something I did not find much information about.

I've been having success with a less is more formula. I personally like my results when using salt either with sugar or without. I have never brined - yet.

Also, I don't leave rubs on the meat for much longer than an hour or two before starting the cook. YMMV.

AR
 
Sure, many times. The rubs for beef that I make have no sugar. Usually just salt, pepper, garlic powder, cumin, onion powder, cayenne, in varying amounts to suit my taste. My first visit to a real Texas BBQ joint was in Austin. The place is the Salt Lick. They have a no sugar rub that was awesome.
 
My opinion with no facts whatsoever to support it:

I don't think salting meat prior to cooking will have a significant effect on the texture or juiciness. I think it's just too little salt and too little time to really impact the meat much.

If you look at something like cured salmon, they use a LOT of salt and sugar to completely coat the fish, and they give it a lot of time, too, in order to draw out the moisture from the flesh. And a Salmon fillet is typically a lot thinner than a brisket or pork butt.

So it seems like a rub, unless it is really piled on, isn't going to make that much difference to a pork butt. Nor is it going to hurt a steak if you throw some salt on it half an hour before you cook it.
 
That is what I've gathered from my observations Tom. I would like to add that I think salting a steak before cooking actually does help. It brings moisture, and along with it, protiens, to the surface of the meat. Therefore aiding in the Malaird Reaction, the forming of that tasty brown crust on a seared piece of juicey heaven.

Ya, I have serious doubts about salting meat dries it out and toughens it.

"Undersalting in the kitchen leads to oversalting at the table"- Alton Brown

You will never see a salt shaker on my table, nor have a need for one!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I don't think salting meat prior to cooking will have a significant effect on the texture or juiciness. I think it's just too little salt and too little time to really impact the meat much. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree. Though I do not advocate salting or rubbing meat the night before, salting before cooking is perfectly fine and, in my opinion, far preferable to salting after cooking.

The statement, "Most cooks misuse salt, and many (perhaps most) recipes err in how salt should be used." is nonsense. Many recipes err on several fronts; how salt 'should be used' is not one of them. Further, though stated as an opinion to which, of course, the author is entitled, the statement, "As a general rule...salting meat before cooking it is not a good idea." is silly. Though I would agree that salting meat well ahead of cooktime is, at best, unnecessary and, at worst, potentially damaging to the taste and/or texture of the meat, such a qualification is needed before one avers a rule, 'general' or otherwise.

Salting does more than just enhance flavor. Though Maillard reactions occur without added salt, salt does draw moisture and because of this, imo, assists caramelization and aids in bark formation. Moreover, the taste enhancement that salt provides is often better if it is applied before cooking rather than after. To me, the taste of a grilled steak, a piece of pan-fried fish, chicken pieces fresh from the oven--whatever--is far better when the salt was applied before cooking rather than after.
 
Which you did well. I was agreeing with Tom and Brian's observations and disputing points of the Joe O'Connell piece.

Your experiment piqued my interest though. I'm looking forward to trying the same on different meats to see what happens.
 

 

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