Sourdough Starter Culture


 

Shawn W

TVWBB Emerald Member
I'm gonna try my own sourdough starter culture.

I've got two containers, one with just straight flour and sterilized water, the other with the smae plus 1T unpastuerized kraut juice.

I found the info here.

I thought 'hey, I know where to bet some lactobactilli'. I sterilized everything (except the kraut juice) to reduce the chance of unwanted organisms. Boiled the 5 stage RO water for a couple minutes then let it cool.

The acid level of the kraut juice might kill it, but then again maybe there a still a few live ones in there and they will take off. We'll see how it goes.

No idea how this will turn out, but I'll update in a week or so. If it bombs I'm out what ... 6T of flour?

Anyone else try making sourdough starter culture?
 
Hey Shawn, cool idea!

I live here in the Bay, and the sourdough here is amazing. I'm certainly no bread expert, but I do recall reading that it is due to the unique strain of lactobacilli sanfranciscii that is found only here.

Makes me wonder if I could culture my own from just water and flour, but not sure I'd go thru all the work.

Is it just me, or does that loaf in the picture on the first link appear way too dense? Looks like a paperweight more than a nice loaf of bread.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom Chips:
...Makes me wonder if I could culture my own from just water and flour, but not sure I'd go thru all the work.

Is it just me, or does that loaf in the picture on the first link appear way too dense? Looks like a paperweight more than a nice loaf of bread... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Hey why not start one ... shouldn't consume much time.

I thought that loaf looked kind of like a brick too ... though they are using half whole wheat flour, I think that explains the appearance ... I'd eat it.
 
Hi Shawn,

I've made my own sourdough starter numerous times. It's really easy. I've made it by using either whole grain rye flour or whole grain wheat flour. I follow the instructions found here.

Occasionally, I've had the leuconostoc problem mentioned by Peter Reinhart here. After learning about Reinhart's fix for the leuconostoc problem I've made starter without fail using pineapple juice for the first two feedings as described by Reinhart.

Below, is a photo of sourdough made on the fourth day after beginning a starter using the method listed above--except using pineapple juice instead of water for the feeding on the first two days of feeding. It was a wonderful starter!

4-day-oldstarter.jpg


Good luck!

###
 
I've started a third batch with pineapple juice and store bought whole wheat flour.

The ww flour also contins: amylase, ascorbic acid, azodicarbonamide, l-cysteine hydrochloride

Those are preservatives I imagine since ww flour will not keep on it's own (so I've heard).

I wonder if the starter will work or if fresh ground ww flour will be needed. ?


PS: Stupid label Alert! Just to recap, the product is Whole Wheat Flour. There is a large exclamation symbol beside the following bold text, immediately below the ingrediants list:

Caution
Allergy Warning

Contains wheat.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn W:
PS: Stupid label Alert! Just to recap, the product is Whole Wheat Flour. There is a large exclamation symbol beside the following bold text, immediately below the ingrediants list:

Caution
Allergy Warning

Contains wheat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Funny stuff there.
I've done the Rye flour starter, per excellent guidance/directions from Rita. Worked great, didn't use the pineapple juice.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn W:
The ww flour also contins: amylase, ascorbic acid, azodicarbonamide, l-cysteine hydrochloride

Those are preservatives I imagine since ww flour will not keep on it's own (so I've heard). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amylase: an enzyme that breaks down starch into sugars to more easily feed yeast.

Ascorbic acid: has some antioxidant properties and aids in gluten formation. L-enantiomer of ascorbic acid is commonly called Vitamin C.

Azodicarbonamide: Bleaches carotene in flour making it appear whiter. Also strengthens gluten by oxidizing cysteine.

L-cysteine hydrochloride: Reducing agent--helps dough become more extensible, shorter proofing time, adds more uniform quality to bread.

###
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bryan S who knows that Rita always offers good advice!:
I've done the Rye flour starter, per excellent guidance/directions from Rita. Worked great, didn't use the pineapple juice. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I originally began making starters with whole grain rye flours and had little or no problems with them. In my first attempts at making a starter from King Arthur White Whole Wheat Flour, I had a couple successive failures. I, later, found out these failures were likely related to the leuconostoc bacteria as described by Reinhart. Apparently, difficulties with leuconostoc dominance of young starter cultures has become an increasing problem of late.

As you know, sourdough starters are really easy to make. Some have presumed that the first starters were simply grain that got wet. Perhaps, a happy mistake! Imagine discovering the key to sourdough bread and, perhaps, beer in one serendipitous moment!

###
 
I've got 4 starters on the go:

W1 November 1st 1400hrs
Sterilized container & utensils, boiled RO water
3T White unbleached coarse flour
3/4C cold water
stir & feed twice daily (add 2T of white flour) for first 5 days

K1 November 1st 1400hrs
Sterilized container & utensils, boiled RO water
3T White unbleached coarse flour
3/4C cold water - 1T, + 1T unpasturized kraut juice (ferment complete)
stir & feed twice daily (add 2T of white flour) for first 5 days

P1 November 1st 2000hrs
Sterilized container & utensils, boiled RO water
2T WW flour
3T pineapple juice
stir twice daily
dump half, add 1/2C ww flour 1/2C pineapple juice once daily for first 3 days, then switch to white flour and plain water

V1 November 1st 2200hrs
Unsterlized containers & utensils, RO water
1/2C WW flour
1/2C Vinegar & RO water (3/4Vinegar, 1/4water to approximate ph3.6)
Vinegar ph is 2.4, Calgary tap water avg ph is 8.0
stir twice daily
dump half, add 1/2C ww flour 1/2C water vinegar once daily for first 3 days, then switch to white flour and plain water

W1 & K1 are alive, getting clumpy & bubbley, W1 smells yeasty & sour, K1 (kraut juice) smells like roadkill ... it's nas-ty (at first I thought it smelled great, but now it's akin to few day old large animal roadkill that's been in the sun)!, but I'll let it live and see what happens.

P1 has no activity, V1 is bubbling somewhat and it might yet work out.

I think W1 is going to work out. When I said clumpy, the flour is turning into an oozy ball and it smells like yeast but sour. Seems about right, does it sound about right?
 
My favorite starter is a potato starter. Easy to start, easy to feed, easy to bake.

Starter
1 C. lukewarm water
1/2 C. sugar
3 TBSP potato flakes
1tsp yeast (just for the starter only)

Mix all ingredients and place in sterilized container. Let sit out all night.

Next day, place in refrigerator.

Feed weekly (can as much as 3 weeks, but I don't recommend it) with
1 C. lukewarm water
1/2 C. sugar
3 TBSP potato flakes

Bread is slightly dense and slightly sweet. Been making this bread for years.

-Matt
 
Thanks Matt! I'm going to go get some potato flakes and try that too. Might as well try a few and see what I like. Did you mean use it within 3 weeks, don't keep it alive any longer? Or after the three weeks you just feed it regular flour?

Yeah, those whole wheat ones really aren't doing much ... I'm going to get some rye flour while I'm at and do the method D.L suggested proper. The whole wheat flour is at least 8 months old.

So, with any luck I should have a rye flour starter, a starter made with white flour, and a potato starter going.
 
Dumped my two whole wheat starters for absolutely no sign of life.

Big change in the kraut juice white flour starter today, I was suprised. It's bubbly and smells yeasty. I think there was a war going on and the foreign organism lost.

Got the rye flour and potato starters going.
 
The rye flour starter is going great. Working as advertised.

The white flour and water is barely doing or not doing anything, I can't really tell. It smells sort of like latex paint, 2 - 3 bubbles on the surface.

The kraut juice starter is a huge suprise. It's bubbly, active and smells sour, not funky any more. I think the kraut juice helped but not for the reason I intended. Either the acidity helped prevent a problem or some kind of bio-competition helped the yeast to survive and thrive. Hey Bryan, are you interested in trying a starter with some unpastuerized kraut juice and see if you get the same results? If you want to wait until I SURVIVE my first loaf that's cool
icon_cool.gif
.

The potato starter was visibly active in mere minutes. It's in the fridge.
 
I baked my first loaves with the most active starter, the kraut juice starter.

The recipe (called San Francisco Sourdough) was 5.5C white, 1C ww, 2.5C water, 1/4C starter, 2t salt, knead 15 - 20, raise 30, form, place in pan(s), raise 12 - 15 hours, bake 375ºF for 40 - 45 minutes.

I made two loaves in pans out of it. I let it rise for 16 hours. The bread was fairly dense, perhaps 3 times the volume it started out. The sour was a little strong but a good flavor.

I was hoping for a little lighter, less dense but I think it's just the recipe.

Thanks all for your help!

Next up: sourdough bagels
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn W:
Hey Bryan, are you interested in trying a starter with some unpastuerized kraut juice and see if you get the same results? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
My kraut is at week 3 and slowing down. I should be ready to can here soon. I'll save some juice and give it a go. I ain't scared none Bud.
icon_biggrin.gif

I've always had great success with the rye flour SD starter.
icon_wink.gif
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bryan S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn W:
Hey Bryan, are you interested in trying a starter with some unpastuerized kraut juice and see if you get the same results? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
My kraut is at week 3 and slowing down. I should be ready to can here soon. I'll save some juice and give it a go. I ain't scared none Bud.
icon_biggrin.gif

I've always had great success with the rye flour SD starter.
icon_wink.gif
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>. I'll be interested to hear if you think the starter has a different taste once it's rolling. And if you go with all juice half juice or just a little bit at the start like I did.

I nearly threw it out at one point it smelled so bad, but it came around.

The main point of doing all this for me was to try the sourdough pizza crust recipe recently posted. But while I'm at it I'm going to try bagels, English Muffins and some bread.
 
So I'm doing the throw out half, add 3/8C flour + 1/4C water thing.

How long should it take to double in volume? Two of my starters can now double themselves but it takes a good twelve hours on the counter ... ambient temp is around 65ºF.
 

 

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