Pernil on the WSM?

Anyone done Puerto Rican-style pernil on the WSM? Obviously wouldn't be traditional, but could be really good...

Thinking of getting a pork shoulder (picnic), rubbing with an adobo, scoring the skin and smoke roasting at around 350 for four hours or so. I think I'll go light on the smoke... and use a fruit wood.

Question is... what temp do you think I should pull it off? Has anyone done proper pernil before and know what temp it usually gets to? The most important thing I'm shooting for is great crackling (crunchy skin). But the meat needs to be tender.

thoughts?

It is served sliced so I would think 170 plus or minus (as high as 180)would be close for an internal.

Thanks for pointing us in this direction.
Jim

Hi Adam
I tried this with a small, rolled pork shoulder from the supermarket. I made stabs in the meat and used a spare pastry bag to squeeze in a paste of garlic, oregano, salt and pepper. I didn't measure the internal temperature. Very tasty.

The few I know who temp it go to 185. Mostly, it's checked with a knife tip: if the meat shreds when a knife tip is inserted slightly into the meat at an oblique angle then lifted straight up (or stabbed-twisted with a fork) it's ready, though it's served sliced, as Jim notes. Since it's cooked skin up and not rotated so that the skin cooks and crisps, the condition of the skin is another marker of doneness Puerto Rican cooks use. If the cueritos look inadequately crisp the oven temp is cranked, irrespective of meat internal. For many, pernil is all about the cueritos which is why picnic is most common.

Almost removing the skin in one piece, seasoning the meat (not all cooks make slits in the meat but I recommend it), then re-attaching the skin is usual. Salt (only) the top of the skin. I recommend a little vinegar in your mix and letting the meat marinate a full day.

Thanks everyone for the thoughts.

Kevin - never heard of removing then reattaching the skin. So, do you marinate it like that so you get better penetration of the marinade? And when finished and ready to roast, I presume you'd need to tie it back on?

Last... when you mention to only salt the top of the skin... you mean don't salt underneath the skin?

I'm debating between two different adobos. Both have vinegar and oregano... one has annatto seeds... what do you think?

Adam--

Like every other popular dish in a region there are many approaches. However, many if not most cooks separate the skin and fat from the picnic starting at the wide end and working down to the narrow, leaving it attached at the narrow end so that you have a flap.

After this point approaches vary widely but here is one I like: On the underside of the skin flap remove enough of the attached fat so that it is an even .25-inch, then, on the top of the roast you've exposed by moving the skin flap out of the way, trim off any extraneous fat.

Make deep cuts in the meat and work your paste into the cuts; spread your paste on all the surfaces of the meat as well except the top of the skin--but do spread your paste on the fat side (the underside) of the skin flap. Reposition the skin flap over the meat and salt the skin side of the flap. It should look like it did before you made the skin flap. Marinate 24 hours, wrapped in plastic. Remove one hour before roasting.

Some tie or skewer the flap back onto the roast before cooking, many don't bother; I skewer. Many cook at an initial temp of 375-400 for 30-60 min then reduce the heat to 300 till done, raising the temp at or near the finish, if needed, to get the skin crisp. Some roast lower (325-350) from the outset then raise the temp at the end for the skin. If you're cooking outside roll with what will seem like it will be able to work best for you.

The big deal is the skin being crispy. Don't rest wrapped or the skin will soften; rest tented if covered at all. I serve as many do: meat sliced and piled with crispy cuerito pieces atop.

I use only a tiny pinch of salt in the paste but salt the meat first, pushing some salt into the slits I've made, then follow with the paste, covering the meat, pushing some into the slits, and applying just to the fat side of the flap as noted above. Again, the top of the flap (the skin side) is only salted. This salt-only-on-top approach is so that the skin, though flavored from the underside, has nothing to prevent it from crisping well (which might be a problem depending on the ingredients used in the paste).

I like annatto seeds. If you can grind them finely enough use them by all means--great color. An alternative is to make annatto oil with the oil that you'll be using for your paste (1 part seeds, 2 parts oil, heat till the oil is deep orange then strain out the seeds). Plenty of garlic of course, black pepper, oregano, and I like a little vinegar.

Have fun with it.

I'm hungry.


Thanks for the tips. I'll probably do this sometime around New Years. I'll let everyone know how it turns out...

i've been thinking about how a pernil would come out on a wsm. Sure enough a thread.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
I like annatto seeds. If you can grind them finely enough use them by all means--great color. An alternative is to make annatto oil with the oil that you'll be using for your paste (1 part seeds, 2 parts oil, heat till the oil is deep orange then strain out the seeds). Plenty of garlic of course, black pepper, oregano, and I like a little vinegar.

Have fun with it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Kevin, Sorry this went so long folks, but this guy is a trip and we have so much fun throughout the day at work. My utility guy Luis is from Puerto Rico and he said yes, that he uses vinegar also in the rub, and Sasson. Instead of the Annatto they use Achiote seeds and boil them in the oil just till the seeds turn brown. Strain out the seeds, and use some for the rub and they also paint the Achiote oil on the Picnics every 45 min to 1 hr. He said when he does them over in PR at his Moms house they have a pit in the ground and put up a 3 sided aluminum panel around the pit. Build a big fire to get the coals going and place the shoulders on a spit. They then just add a log or 2 as needed to keep the coals going. He said no problem doing the Pernil on the WSM, almost the same as he does them over in PR. He said he wouldn't use smoke wood though, just lump charcaol. Over there they turn them by hand and paint the Achiote oil on while cooking. If made in the oven they still use the oil also. HTH and I'm so making this. He's going to get me the Achiote seeds this week.
On a side note he was telling me about Pasteles last week, he's going to have his Aunt make up some for us at work, and get me her recipe. She makes them the traditional way. And this was his gradmothers recipe. He has no time during the week to make them himself. He is very passionate about cooking. He and his Uncle have a food stand that they cook at every Friday and go to fairs, parades and such making and selling Puerto Rican food. He made me some boiled chicken last week that was really, really good. I know what your thinking but this wasn't your ordinary boiled chicken. I'll call it stewed chicken, but not as we know it. Last week I asked him how he made his black beans. He cocked his head at me and said Bryan, you eat black beans, yeah, really, yeah, cocks his head agian and says, I didn't think white people ate black beans. I busted up laughing, he's a hoot. Luis and I talk food/cooking several times a day. It's funny though, he'll be talking about how he makes someing and start spouting out ingredients and I always have to put my finger up as in wait a min. He just starts laughing at me cause he knows I'm walking over to get a piece of paper and a pen so he can write it down for me. Like when he was trying to tell me about the Achiote today, I had no idea what he was saying. He gets really going when talking about cooking and gets into a hybrid language of American and Puerto Rican, I just start laughing and then he stops talking and laughs at me and shakes his head and says. You don't know *** I just said do you. I laugh and say no. He goes sorry and starts again. And yes I got the same head cocking today when I wrote Pernil on a piece of paper and handed it to him. He just looked at me and didn't know what to say, which is rare for Louie, (that's what we call him). It took him awhile to figure out what to say. I know what he was thinking though, as he looked at me with his head cocked and a grin on his face. How does this crazy white guy know about Pernil? I showed him this thread about it and he goes ah, now I know how you know about Pernil.

I really like the idea of basting with the oil (btw, annatto and achiote are the same thing).

I'd forgotten about this thread. I haven't made pernil in ages.
Perhaps whenever I get back home.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
I really like the idea of basting with the oil (btw, annatto and achiote are the same thing).
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I aked Louie on Sunday at work, how the basting oil was made and said he didn't know. That's the womens job he told me. While the men are outside, building the fire and putting the meat on the spits, and turning them, the women are inside making the oil up and the rest of the meal. So he called his sister for me and said it's just olive oil, Achiote seeds and boil till the seeds turn brown/leach out all the red color and flavor. I can't wait to make this. Same as you posted above with the Annatto seeds, but he was very adamant about using Achiote and not Annatto.

Hmm. Annato is just the Italian for the same in Spanish, achiote--unless he has another use for the word 'annatto'. (In PR Spanish, orange juice is 'jugo de China'; in every other Spainish it is 'juge de naranja'. Maybe his use of 'annanto' is something else entirely.) And annatto/achiote oil is made the same way--just as his sister describes. It is a fairly common thing in some regional Hispanic cuisines.

I'm looking forward to it too.

Not sure K. When he was describing the Achiote to me I said to him Annotto? he said no, Achiote... Loiue also told me today, that sometimes he likes to change up from the regular Pernil rub he makes and just use Sofrito instead. He still does baste with the Achiote oil, when using the Sofrito.

OK I picked up a Picnic for the Pernil. Any negatives of making the marinade/paste and applying it to said picnic, say tonight or tomorrow/Tues, vac sealing for the rest of the week and cooking it on Sat? TIA

Hmm. The vinegar might be a concern for that long--might, not a definite. One doesn't use all that much so it probably would be fine vinegar-wise. You might lighten up on the application a bit so as not to end up with too strongly flavored meat.

The day after you bumped this thread I thought I'd tool around the Net to see what pernil recipes were out there. There were only a couple that recommended the skin removal thing as I do above, so maybe it is not as common as I thought, though I did see this procedure several times when last in PR. (20 years ago now?!) Achiote oil was scarcely mentioned either so, well, one often has to take many Net recipes with a grain...

I sometimes use some onion along with the garlic for the paste but not always. If you have fresh oregano use it. I've had pernil with and without cumin (I like a little in there). Salt and pepper. What's Luis's mix?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
Hmm. The vinegar might be a concern for that long--might, not a definite. One doesn't use all that much so it probably would be fine vinegar-wise. You might lighten up on the application a bit so as not to end up with too strongly flavored meat.

The day after you bumped this thread I thought I'd tool around the Net to see what pernil recipes were out there. There were only a couple that recommended the skin removal thing as I do above, so maybe it is not as common as I thought, though I did see this procedure several times when last in PR. (20 years ago now?!) Achiote oil was scarcely mentioned either so, well, one often has to take many Net recipes with a grain...

I sometimes use some onion along with the garlic for the paste but not always. If you have fresh oregano use it. I've had pernil with and without cumin (I like a little in there). Salt and pepper. What's Luis's mix? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I searched high and low on the net too. Only two recipes caught my eye but as a base to combine both of them somewhat to make the Pernil. I had Louie read your recipe lastweek, Here and he said yep, that's how he makes it. Def add the viengar, he always uses it. Other than what you posted, he likes to put Sazon in it, and the Achiote oil basting part. My main reason for searching the net was to get amounts TBS etc on how much of each to use. All recipes I found only had 1 - 2TBS of vinegar in them, so I should be safe on the long marinade part if I choose to go that route. He said the same thing, not much vinegar, just a little. I'll talk to him on Wed, he's on vacation till then, and let him look at the 2 recipes I printed out and have him tweak them for me. Thanks for all your help with this Kevin.
EDIT: As far as the skin goes, Loiue said that that's the most important part of the Pernil. "Slice up some of the cueritos and put it on a slice of bread, that's all I need"

Sure.

I think for me it's about 6 or 7 cloves of garlic, a med onion, some oregano--maybe a T or two--a little cumin (about 1 t) and I am fairly generous with the pepper. After that, a good splash of vinegar (it is probably somewhere between 1 and 2 T) and then oil to make it pasty and carry the flavor. I think the achiote oil is a great idea and would use it in the paste as well as the baste.

Very interesting. Wonder if this would work on the EZ Que. Since upstream mentions that the cook on a spit. Might be a tight fit though in the kettle.

I do 18-20-lb fresh hams on the kettle. A 7-10-lb picnic shouldn't be a big deal.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
I do 18-20-lb fresh hams on the kettle. A 7-10-lb picnic shouldn't be a big deal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rotie? Or are you doing standard indirect style?