Brine versus cure

I thought I had this sorted out, but after reading several posts the two latest days, I'm not sure anymore.

Here's a stupid question- what's the difference between brining and curing?

Charcuterie pg 38

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Curing means to preserve meat or fish with salt. For dry-curing as opposed to curing in a brine, a salt mixture is simply rubbed over the meat or the meat is dredged in it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the book goes on to define "salt" as sodium chloride and "curing salt" as having nitrite and sometimes nitrate as well.

IMO, curing is all about preserving and that involves 3 factors: salinity, pH and active water. Salting, drying, acidifying and smoking all help to preserve meat. Curing salts (as defined by the book) are specific for preventing growth of C. botulinum , therefore aren't really a part of the core definition of what it means to cure.

I'm with you so far. I have the book as well.

Then- you can cure with brine. A brine is a salty solution, and the word should not be used as a verb, as in "to brine", as that would be the same as "to cure" ? (Or is not really needed)?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Then- you can cure with brine. A brine is a salty solution, and the word should not be used as a verb, as in "to brine", as that would be the same as "to cure" ? (Or is not really needed)? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

For sharing of information via the internet, I try to be a specific as possible. I'll state whether the item was cured in salt (dry-cured) or in a brine.

I was under the impression that dry-curing involved curing in salt then a drying period, but that doesn't agree with the book's definition. Actual drying is not part of their definition, which begs the question why a chamber, in which one dries dry-cured meats, called a curing chamber?

I'm sure we are over thinking all this as the steps are the key parts. As long as we are specific about what we did, then others can make appropriate comments.

jBiesinger- I'm still with you so far.
I've read things like "Did you brine it in brine, or did you cure it in brine" among other things, so I started to think there was something I have not understood the detailed meaning of the words "brine" and "cure"

(I'm used to the word Speke, which is both salting and then drying.
If we salt meat, we simply say that we salt meat.)

I'm sure I know how to "make meat salt", both by using salted water as well as dry salt, but it seems to me that at least some of you use the word "cure" oand "brine" as two different processes.

Yeah, over thinking. But probably not for you guys -- you're trying to get a process right.

For me, the reason I read this thread was "brine vs cure" in terms of the results. I'm not a special fan of brining as it has changed the texture of my meat (poultry) -- tender but different. Using a salt cure, on the other hand, did not have that same effect -- so I preferred that result.

Since you guys seem to be so deep into this, would you mind commenting about this observation?

Rich

Here's my take and I'm definitely no expert...
To me, a cure, dry or wet, must have salt in a specific percentage to inhibit the growth of various dangerous bacteria. I don't think it technically needs nitrites though modern cures generally do. A brine is a liquid solution with salt (and other ingredients if wanted)in a specific ratio to the water used. A cure is foremost a preservative, and a flavor developer second. Today, curing isn't as necessary do to refrigeration, but we do like the flavor of cured meats as we have kept the desired recipes even though the threat of dangerous bacteria is no longer as real. Brines can be used to cure but don't have to. Brines can simply be used to pump the meat with additional water and salt or to add flavor; no preservation effect intended. Brines can last mere minutes like when used for shrimp or days such as with a pork loin. The bottom line is perhaps technically cure and brine are really the same but a brine always will be in water. On this forum, I use the term brining as an aid to add moisture to meat; not a preservative method. That may be technically incorrect.

Rich, the change in texture may be do to the breakdown of some proteins in the cells. Maybe you've seen diagrams of the muscle fibers unwinding after being soaked in a brine.

Paul

Thank you for the input. I can't say I'm much wiser, but none the less, I've learned that I'm not the only one who is a bit unsure about de details in the meaning of the two words.

"wet cure" versus "brine", and "cure in brine" versus "brine in brine"

You can cure without brining and you can brine without curing.

It's confusing because the words have different meanings depending on the use. A brine can be weak to impart moisture/flavor or much stronger to salt-cure a piece of meat.

Besides the obvious issue of curing salts, the main difference comes down to salinity levels and time of application. In a wet (brine) application lots of salt will cure. Lower salt levels will brine. Curing usually also involves a longer soak in the brine than brining for moisture.

Essentially the difference is based on context and both words can mean different things so it is hard to explain.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Geir Widar:
I thought I had this sorted out, but after reading several posts the two latest days, I'm not sure anymore.

Here's a stupid question- what's the difference between brining and curing? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cure is achieved by RUBBING DRY SALTS mixed with sugars and sodium nitrite (both items are optional) into the meat, it's like a RUB. BRINE IS A SOLUTION of salts and other things, pretty much like a cure that has been dissolved in water, that the meat is SOAKED.

CURE IS A DRY RUB, BRINE IS A SOAKING SOLUTION MADE WITH THAT DRY RUB, AS IT WERE. Just yesterday I smoked 25 pounds of cured pork belly, AKA BACON, that's been curing for 20 days.

Most commercial bacon that you buy at the store has been brined therefore soaked in salted water for however long of a time. Therefore upon purchase, you're paying partly for the water weight, the weight of the water that the meat has absorbed.

Thank you for the input.
I think it more or less proves my point, if you read the posts in this thread.

Hi there,

I am new here, and late to the conversation, but maybe i can provide some more information about brine/cure. Because there is in fact a difference !

First, a brine is just a solution made of water and salt, and sometimes other ingredients (nitrate, nitrite, sugar, spicies).

That said, you can use a brine solution, to brine OR to cure !

If you just brine, for exemple a turkey, your intention is to give flavor and moisture to the meat through osmosis. This processus can take a few minutes (if injected), or a couple hours (even 2-3 days). For this operation, you may or may not use nitrate and nitrite.

Now, you can also CURE meat using a brine solution where your intention will be to preserve the meat for a longer period. When doing so, you will definitly use nitrate and nitrite for longer conservation period. This process may take up to two months depending on the weight and thickness of the meat. A 3 inches brisket that you soak in brine WITHOUT injection will take 14 to 20 days to cure.

Finalle, let's just say that i often use a brine solution to add flavor to my fish, poultry or turkey, i let them soak in the brine for a few hours. On the opposite, i cure my beef brisket using a combination of process where i inject brine in the beef and then soak it in brine (this is quicker, maybe 7 days for a 3-3.5 inches thick brisket) ...

I hope that helped and sorry for my english !