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Steve Cutchen
12-24-2009, 09:29 AM
Several folks have asked for a compilation of the High Heat method. I have a recipe database on my Mac, and so I was creating a compilation for myself. I originally posted this in the original HH thread that Craig started. I've corrected and added based on comments there. You'll notice a lot of direct quotes and much paraphrasing. I've also added a bit from other tvwb pages. A huge thank you to everyone for sharing. ---Steve

High Heat Brisket

The Virtual Weber Bullet : Kevin Kruger, Craig Castille and others
Servings/Yield : 5 to 6 lbs cooked brisket

The beauty of doing High Heat briskets is that you can do it pretty much on spur of the moment. Craig does them for football tailgates regularly---who would ever be able to do that cooking conventionally? And the spur of the moment cooks gives you plenty of practice to experiment with pastes, rubs, temp control, etc. For the 20 bucks invested in a brisket, you can make a lot of friends with edible gifts....

1 beef brisket, 10 to 12 pound, untrimmed Select or ungraded packer
Kevin's Paste Rub:
1 onion, small, chopped
3 cloves garlic, chopped
1 tablespoon Worcestershire sauce
4 teaspoons pickled jalapeno peppers
1 tablespoon pickled jalapeno pepper juice
1 tablespoon Dijon
ground green pepper, to taste
1 pinch kosher salt
2 tablespoons extra-virgin olive oil
Kevin's Dry Rub:
1 tablespoon coffee beans, (recommended: dark- roasted Ethiopian, can substitute ground)
1 tablespoon garlic powder, (recommended granulated garlic)
6 whole cloves, (can substitute a scant 1/2 teaspoon ground)
½ teaspoon fennel seeds, (can substitute 1/2 teaspon ground)
1 teaspoon coriander seeds, (can substitute 1 teaspoon ground)
4 whole cardamom pods, seeds (can substitute 1/3 teaspoon ground)
1 tablespoon marjoram
1 tablespoon ground thyme
1 1 inch piece ginger, (can substitute 2 teaspoons ground)
1 tablespoon granulated onion
1 ½ tablespoon aleppo chile powder
1 teaspoon whole white peppercorns, (can substitute 1/2 teaspoon ground)
½ teaspoon whole black peppercorns, (can substitute 1/2 teaspoon ground)
½ teaspoon kosher salt
Craig's Paste Rub:
½ yellow onion, small
5 cloves garlic
1 tablespoon dijon
1 tablespoon Worcestershire sauce
1 tablespoon steak dust seasoning
1 tablespoon bourbon, (recommended: Jack Daniels)
1 tablespoon pickled jalapeno peppers

Method

**Summary

- Prepare brisket, trimming fat a little more than usual.
- Apply a wet rub followed by a dry.
- Fire the WSM using the Minion method, with 3/4 of a chimney of charcoal and all smoke wood on top.
- Put the brisket on as the WSM is heating up. Target a lid temperature of 325 to 350.
- Flip the door and crack it open as an additional air source if needed to get the temperature up.
- Cook the brisket to an internal temperature of about 170, just past plateau.
- Foil the brisket loosely, but with a tight crimp. If you are removing the point, do that now, and don't foil the point.
- Continue to cook, but not by temperature. Remove the meat when the flat is just probe tender.
- Remove brisket from foil and carefully reserve all liquid.
- If you are firming the bark, return the meat to the smoker, directly on the grate for 30 minutes.
- Rewrap in new foil, adding about 1 1/2 cups of reserved liquid to the flat, and rest in towels in a cooler for 30 min to 3 hours.

**Select and Trim Brisket

Note: if you are well organized, you can fire up the chimney for the WSM before trimming and applying the rubs. Or between trimming and applying the rubs.

This method can be used on just the flat, but most folks seem to be doing whole packers. This method most commonly recommended for Select and no-roll (ungraded) briskets since they don't have the marbling that Choice or other higher end branded briskets do. Traditional low and slow is still recommended for these higher end briskets.

Trim the fat from a packer a little more than usual. Keep the fat cap trimmed to about 1/4 inch, but don't remove it. The brisket will be cooked fat-side down to protect the meat from the higher heat. The reason for the higher trim is that the shorter cooking time will not allow it to render down like it does when cooked low/slow.

**Prepare and Apply Rubs

Because the brisket is finished in foil, you won't get a hard bark. There are two levels of technique for dealing with this. First, use a wet paste rub followed by a dry rub for all high heat method briskets. The paste will set up and be similar to bark, but will be a bit moist. Second, if you want to try for a drier, more traditional bark, return the brisket to the smoker uncovered for the last 30 minutes in order to firm up the outside.

For Kevin's Paste Rub, use a blender to puree all the ingredients except the oil until very smooth. Then, with the machine running, add the oil in a slow stream. The paste recipe is enough to cover a whole 12-14-pound packer with the exception of the fatcap side.

For Kevin's Dry Rub, Using your spice grinder of choice, combine all ingredients and grind together. If some or any of the spices are in whole form (cloves, fennel, coriander, cardamom seeds, white peppercorns, black peppercorns), toast them, if desired, in a dry pan heated over high heat stirring constantly, until very fragrant, about 1 min. The dry recipe will make more than you need.

Craig Castille's paste rub is also shown.

If you plan to separate the point, you can insert a toothpick into the fat seam between the flat and point as a marker before you put on the rub . This will give you an idea where they join when it's time to seperate them.

Apply your paste with the back of a soup spoon to the brisket and spread it fairly evenly. Sprinkle the rub over the paste lightly, wait a few minutes, then sprinkle on more rub, as desired.

**Fire-Up The Cooker

Use an empty water pan. The water in a water pan is a heat sink, and does not add moisture to the meat. Since water boils at 212, using water as a sink will tend to hinder your ability to get the cooker to the mid 300s needed for the high heat method. Instead of water as a heat sink, use a 14" pottery flower pot base. The flowerpot base should just fit on top of your water pan. The empty water pan acts as an air insulator to prevent the flowerpot base from getting so hot it will burn the drippings and the water pan also supports the flowerpot base more securely than trying to hang the pottery off the tabs all by itself. Some folks recommend putting sand in the base before foiling to add additional mass and thus a larger heat sink. Line both the pan and pottery base with foil to make cleanup easier, to catch the drippings, and to keep fats from absorbing into the pottery.

Light the cooker using the Minion Method. Open all vents. Start with a full ring of briquettes. Don't skimp on the charcoal. If you end up with more fuel than needed, you can shut down the cooker after removing the meat to preserve the remaining coal for a future cook. Top with your smoke wood. Because the cook is faster, and since you will foil for the end, you want all of the smoke wood on top. This allows it to be consumed and add its flavor before foiling. Light a 3/4 filled chimney of briquettes spread them over the unlit briquettes and smoke wood chunks. Then wait until the ring feels real hot before assembling the unit (probably around 15 minutes). Expect it to take an hour or so to come up to the cook temperature.

High heat cooking is between 325 and 350 on the lid. To get to this temperature with the Minion method, you may need more air than the vents allow. Flipping the door upside down (so the knob is on the bottom) and propping it open 1/2 to 1 inch is usually all you need to boost temps. Use a piece of split wood to adjust the opening of the door. Unless the smoker is sitting in the direct sun light, expect to have to prop the door open. Sometimes the door stays propped open the entire cook. It ususally settles around 325-335 lid for the duration.

**Barbeque the Brisket

If you can time it such that the meat is going on as the Minion start is beginning, you can achieve a better smoke ring. Figure a packer taking 4-4.5 hours by this method.

Put the brisket on the grate fat side down. The fat layer helps protect the meat from the higher radiant heat. Cook until a probe inserted from the side into the flat reads 160 to 170 or so. This should be through he plateau.

Now remove the brisket to foil it. If you are going to separate the point, now is the time. The point can be cooked unfoiled on the grate next to the foiled flat to make outstanding burnt ends. Foil the brisket (or flat), fat cap UP, tenting and leaving room, but making sure it is crimped together tightly. The brisket will throw off a good deal of liquid. Having room around and above it will contain the liquid but lessen the pressure on the foil.

As an alternative to HD foil, consider a foil pan. These come in an 18" x 12" x 3" oval size that is an excellent fit on a WSM 18.5. Then foil over the brisket in the pan. This will allow much easier access for probing for doneness, and will make physically managing the liquid easier and safer.

Once foiled, use the probe to determine when the brisket is done, but NOT by temperature. Just prove vertically Abandon any notion of a targeted finish temperature. Especially because a foiled brisket will give artificially high temperatures. When the brisket hits the low 190s cook at the clock. If it's been over 90 min since you foiled but not quite 2 hours you'll likely need more time, 30-45 min, but check the brisket. Don't move it--check it where it is. If you're not using a foil pan, keep the crimp high to keep from losing liquid, uncrimp enough so that you can probe in a few places to feel the meat. (Note about how much liquid is in the foil, so you can select a proper sized container when it comes off.) Check in the usual center area, not the tip nor the point. It's OK to probe vertically. You want to probe to go in like it would in butter. If there's some resistance, remove the probe, reseal and cook another 30 min or so and check again.

Remember, too, that since you're cooking higher you'll get good residual cooking after pulling. And if you are returning the brisket unfoiled to firm the bark, you will get further cooking. There is more leeway, finish-wise, with briskets cooked this way--if you go 30 min but the brisket needed 15 no problem.

A 12-pounder will take between a bit over 2 hours to 2:40 in the foil.

When it is time to pull the foiled brisket, get your liquids container ready and new foil. You will have scoped out the liquid quantity situation the first time you checked. If it seemed scant (not likely) have some chicken stock (or beef) ready. Carefully lift off the package and drain the juices into the container. You could have as much as 3 cups so be prepared.

Now you have a choice. If you want to firm up the bark, return the brisket unfoiled to the smoker for about 30 minutes.

**Resting

When you are finally done cooking, wrap anew in doubled foil (or foil pan) and stick a good 1 1/2 cups of liquid back in there, unseparated. Separate and de-fat the remainder, if desired, for sauce.

If you need to reduce excessive residual cooking, rest the brisket in opened foil on the counter or on top of the cooler for 5-10 minutes.

Seal tightly, wrap in towels and rest in the vessel of your choice. Rest for an absolute minimum of 30 minutes, or a typical 1 to 2 hours. Towel wrapped and stored in a cooler, the brisket can be held for 3 hours or more, as long as the temperature does not drop below 140.

**Storing Leftovers

Brisket tastes great as leftovers, and it can be refrigerated safely for 3-4 days. The bark on brisket gets soft during storage and reheating. But the high heat method did not generate a strong bark to begin with, so that is less of a concern. Take care to not dry it out during reheating. A good method is to take brisket in zip bags with as much air removed as possible, and reheat them in simmering water. This limits the maximum temperature to 200 or so.

Brisket freezes great in a zip bag (again, suck as much air out as possible). You can freeze chopped, sliced or unsliced. To reheat, you should thaw it first in the refrigerator. Then place the bag in simmering water until heated. You can take it straight from the freezer to simmering water until thawed and heated if you have to.

Notes

Questions, Todd D:
1) Trim or don't trim? I've read some that say trim more aggressively than usual for low slow. Have also read don't trim anything.
2) Previous briskets have used a little worcestershire and then the midnight brisket rub from the cooking section. Is that still acceptable on a HH cook, or do I need to move on and try a paste & rub combo?
3) Should I get the smoker up to temp before placing the 2 briskets on? Concerned that cold ambient temps (probably in the 30s) along with 2 packers could delay the time to get up to temp. I normally cook with a Stoker.
4) Should I swap briskets between top and bottom shelves when pulling out to foil?
5) If resting in a towel lined cooler for an hour to two, would you return to fat side up during that rest?
6) Is there much fat trimming that needs to be done after a HH brisket? Normally I have very little left on a low slow
7) When probing for done, are you probing perpendicular to the meat, or coming in horizontally from the end?

Answers, Craig Castille:
1) I only trim in the cavity between the flat and the point. All else stays on until the end
2) experiment with what you like. I use a paste as it adds a crusty flavor. Bark is a casualty of HH cooks.
3) I'd get the fuel very engaged before assembly and putting the meat on. Once assembled, I'll leave the door off until temps get to 400. Then I'll play with the door or lid to maintain temps.
4) Probably a good idea.
5) I wouldn't turn it upside down if you use a paste. Keep in mind that the brisket will continue to cook if it's in a cooler. If you want to hold it for a couple of hours, then take it off just before tender or you may end up with pot roast.
6) Fat depends on the brisket It's easier to remove after cooking.
7) To check for tenderness, I insert the probe from the side.

Answers, Kevin Kruger:
1. I only trim the fat, some, in the cavity, like craig. Often I don't even do that. Depends on the brisket.
2. I use a dry over paste. I like depth and breadth.
3. I always Minion the start, using twice as much lit. In cold ambient temps I just up the lit. I prefer to have the meat cold and the cooker cold when I start. On virtually no cooks do I bring the cooktemp up first.
4. I do.
5. I don't. I don't cooler either. I rest 20-30 on the counter after draining most of the foil juices.
6. I usually go with perpendicular, un the middles of the flat (not the middle of the packer).

Paul Berman
12-25-2009, 11:36 AM
Thanks. This is great.

Eric Simon
12-26-2009, 07:38 AM
TYVM!

LarryR
01-02-2010, 09:33 AM
Well done, very nice summary that I'm sure took a couple hours to put together. Many will benefit from your efforts.

Mark B
01-19-2010, 08:04 PM
Just came across this. Excellent job and thanks for taking the time to put it together.

Garland Hudgins
01-20-2010, 04:50 AM
Very nice. Thanks for thaking the time to put this together, Steve.

Dan N.
01-22-2010, 09:22 AM
Good job. Thanks.

Dave Russell
01-23-2010, 10:55 AM
I did a little 8.65 lb. packer yesterday afternoon ala Kevin C. and it was quite a surprise! I put it on at 2:15 and pulled it at 6:00 and it was fork tender!

Next time, I plan on not wrapping till the meat temp is 170 or getting close to looking "right", and I'll try to wrap it in foil with a foil "lid" that I can take off for the last 45 minutes or so. I know this will add some time to the cook, but I feel there's just something wrong with not having bark formation of any sort. The paste and rub was very flavorful, but with it all still "raw and mushy", it over-powered the meat and thickened the juices.

The hi-temp method is definately a method that I want to learn, though. It just sucks to take all the time on low and slow briskets and having the flat sometimes ending up dry. Thanks to all for the info posted, and next time maybe I'll get it right.

J D McGee
01-27-2010, 10:08 AM
Outstanding job...thanks Steve! http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/images/wsmsmile8gm.gif

Gerry D.
02-10-2010, 08:21 AM
Just one question. If cooking at high heat why use anything as a heat sink? I just use an empty foiled water pan and I can keep the temp at 350.

K Kruger
02-10-2010, 09:51 AM
No heat sink required and none is called for.

Tony C.
02-19-2010, 04:32 PM
i prefer packers, but i have success doing flats high heat as well.

DW Frommer II
06-14-2010, 04:11 PM
Is there a link that shows the difference between brisket cuts and how to trim them?

K Kruger
06-14-2010, 04:35 PM
Chris has info here (http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/brisketselect.html).

I don't often trim at all - until service. However, if I get a brisket with an extreme fat knob between point and flat I'll cut out a bunch of it; or if the point end flat is very thick I'll take some of that off.

DW Frommer II
06-15-2010, 03:47 AM
Thanks Kevin

Tom O
07-10-2010, 12:07 PM
Thanks to all of you. This is wonderful...tom

Mark_C
07-15-2010, 07:46 AM
2 questions:

1) why separate the point and the flat mid cook? I like a nice moist point that usually chop up for sandwiches -- is the separation necessary?

2) My butcher is having a hard time getting a select brisket. Can I use a choice, or will it be too tough?

K Kruger
07-15-2010, 07:56 AM
1) No. I pretty much never separate. That's for people who want to cook the point much longer. If you don't, don't bother separating.

2) Choice is a higher (better) grade than Select. If you can get Choice, do so. HH works well with it.

Mark_C
07-15-2010, 10:26 AM
Thanks Kevin.

The first part of the post said

"**Select and Trim Brisket

Note: if you are well organized, you can fire up the chimney for the WSM before trimming and applying the rubs. Or between trimming and applying the rubs.

This method can be used on just the flat, but most folks seem to be doing whole packers. This method most commonly recommended for Select and no-roll (ungraded) briskets since they don't have the marbling that Choice or other higher end branded briskets do. Traditional low and slow is still recommended for these higher end briskets.

Trim the fat from a packer a little more than usual. Keep the fat cap trimmed to about 1/4 inch, but don't remove it. The brisket will be cooked fat-side down to protect the meat from the higher heat. The reason for the higher trim is that the shorter cooking time will not allow it to render down like it does when cooked low/slow. "

So I was looking for some specific commentary with regards to that statement. I would have thought that higher grade briskets would be even better for this type of cooking as well (high heat)... but... ???????

http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

K Kruger
07-15-2010, 10:38 AM
Primes and Wagyu I low/slow, at temps lower than typical. Selects and Choices I HH. It's a good method for Selects because foiling helps retain moisture and rendering.

Unlike the statement, I do not trim much if any. If there is a large knob of fat at the point I might trim that some; if a large pocket between flat and point I might trim some out of that, but I ;eave the fatcap alone. It's easy to remove after cooking, at serving, if necessary. Just cut a few slices, trim the fat quickly; serve.

Mark_C
07-15-2010, 11:30 AM
Wagyu Brisket? You just made me incredibly hungry! :-)

Thanks for your input, MUCH obliged. I'm looking forward to a nice and moist HH brisket on Saturday!!

Kirk J
07-19-2010, 04:54 AM
Hi guys, finally tried my first High Temp Briskett, and had a couple questions, since it didn't turn out perfect. I think I just left it on too long before checking it....the flat was quite burned. Salvageable, but not something I'd have wanted to serve. POint was OK though. When I put it in the foil pan the temp on the grate shot up..400ish which I decided was the heat coming off the pan, so I moved the probe through the top vent, and temp was registering 360 there....so that seemed OK. However I did not even check it for 2 1/2 hours, and it was more than done. I had a 12.5 pound packer. Took about 2.5 hours to hit 170...then 2 1/2 hours in foil. So was it the heat or more likely just that I should have checked it sooner? Also if this is a risk, why couldn't a person just put the fat side down and protect the meat from the high heat of the pan? If the fat gets burned it wouldn't matter to me. Has anyone tried fat side down the whole cook?

T Tills
07-19-2010, 06:19 AM
I made this Saturday for some friends that were coming over for a visit. My first brisket ever.

I had a 14 pounder that I put on at 8:30, I intentionally kept the temp in the 320-330 range because I realized I started too early. By noon we foiled, and at 2ish I tested it and it was perfect! In the cooler for a couple hours.

At dinner time, it was amazing. I'm definately doing this again for camp this coming weekend.


Thanks for all the info!

K Kruger
07-19-2010, 06:33 AM
So was it the heat or more likely just that I should have checked it sooner?
I only cook fat side down. Start to finish.


Yes, you should have checked it sooner. For packers I recommend checking at the 3:50 mark - counting from when you put the meat on.

Mark_C
07-19-2010, 06:58 AM
<quote> I only cook fat side down... </quote>

This is surprising to me... I thought that in the pan, it went fat side up? (which also makes sense to me -- to allow the fat to baste the meat)

Anyways, I cooked mine on Saturday... it was amazing all around. I highly recommend this recipe to everyone!!

K Kruger
07-19-2010, 07:17 AM
Some might do it that way. I don't. I want to keep the rub above the level of the liquid that will exude. I keep the fat down to protect the bottom of the meat, as you suspected upthread.

Fat up doesn't really baste meat, except for the sides as some rolls off. Fat rendering on the top will not soak into the meat or anything like that. And the fatcap on brisket is hard fat. It does not render very much.

Mark_C
07-19-2010, 07:46 AM
Interesting -- I'll try fat down the whole time my next go. Thanks!

Kirk J
07-19-2010, 10:35 AM
Thanks Kevin. I don't know what I was thinking waiting so long to check it. I switched to fat side down a long time ago for my low and slow cooks, but didn't know if there was some major reason, that I couldn't think of, why that couldn't be done here as well. I guess I'll just have to do another one soon.

Curt
07-19-2010, 10:42 AM
Just did my first HH brisket yesterday.
A 15 pounder, it took from 11:50 until 3:15 before I foiled it at 170, but then it was unbelievably tender and ready to take off at 4:30, though I gave it an extra 20 minutes minus the foil to bark up.
I had a tough time keeping the temp consistently above 325 for the first part, which I'm sure is what took it so long, but it all worked out great in the end. Even my oldest son, who swore off brisket after too many Famous Daves attempts, is now a fan, as long as there's some #5 sauce handy.

Cory L.
07-27-2010, 05:49 AM
I did a 5 pound flat this weekend that turned out super. My only complaint would be the lack of a pronounced smoke ring. It was there, just not as large as I would like to see. The flat went on the smoker right out of the fridge after the smoker was already at temp. My question, can I go at a lower temp initially say around 250 until the internal temp is 170, then foil and finish at 350. Kind of a low then high method? Thinking the longer time at a slower temp will help with the ring formation. Am I way off here? Thanks.

Mark_C
07-27-2010, 06:16 AM
Originally posted by Cory L.:
I did a 5 pound flat this weekend that turned out super. My only complaint would be the lack of a pronounced smoke ring. It was there, just not as large as I would like to see. The flat went on the smoker right out of the fridge after the smoker was already at temp. My question, can I go at a lower temp initially say around 250 until the internal temp is 170, then foil and finish at 350. Kind of a low then high method? Thinking the longer time at a slower temp will help with the ring formation. Am I way off here? Thanks.

I would think you can do that, since that's similar to what's suggested for the high heat pork butt method. Could be an interesting thing to try if you're willing to give it a bit more time....

r benash
07-28-2010, 03:33 AM
First time I'm seeing this. Thanks for pulling this all into one place Steve. Going to do one and was about to go through all my saves and voila! Found you had already done the work for me.

Kirk J
07-29-2010, 11:14 AM
Corey You'll loose the beauty of the quick time if you start at 250. Check outBrisket - Smoked & Oven Finished (http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/brisket1.html)

JP Stanley
07-31-2010, 07:08 AM
How important is it to add rub and let rest overnight? I noticed some of the Texas BBQ joints that use HH season and throw on the pits right after seasoning.

Would a 1-2 hour rest in the fridge be enough?

K Kruger
07-31-2010, 07:26 AM
It is not important. I usually make rubs while the coals are lighting for a Minion start.

K Kruger
07-31-2010, 07:30 AM
Originally posted by Cory L.:
I did a 5 pound flat this weekend that turned out super. My only complaint would be the lack of a pronounced smoke ring. It was there, just not as large as I would like to see. The flat went on the smoker right out of the fridge after the smoker was already at temp. My question, can I go at a lower temp initially say around 250 until the internal temp is 170, then foil and finish at 350. Kind of a low then high method? Thinking the longer time at a slower temp will help with the ring formation. Am I way off here? Thanks. I'd suggest putting the meat on at assembly and not waiting for it to come to temp.

Walter Eugene Brooker,Jr.
08-03-2010, 06:18 PM
Going to our local Walmart and trying that trick this weekend myself.

MPatti
08-14-2010, 03:48 PM
I cooked a 12 lb. packer. It took about 3.5 hours to reach 170. Although the taste and texture were wonderful, I also had a very small smoke ring.

I used Minion Method w/ KF Comp. Bricks, 3 chunks of pecan, 3 chunks hickory and 2 oak. All dry. After about an hour I added 3 more chunks. Also, put the brisket on during light up, as suggested.

Most of my stuff has a weak smoke ring, not just this brisket.

What am I doing wrong?

Russell McNeely
08-14-2010, 05:39 PM
I did the HH brisket recipe from the cooking topics section on my gasser (before I got my WSM) and it turned out great (except no smoke flavor which is why I got a WSM). Can't wait to try it on the weber bullet.

Chris in Louisiana
08-14-2010, 07:04 PM
Here are the notes on my run at High Heat Brisket:

12.89 lb. brisket. Trimmed, oiled, and rubbed with variety of spices (ancho chili powder,chipotle powder, black pepper, salt, onion powder, cayenne, cumin, paprika, Cavender’s Greek Seasoning, etc.) as the fire got ready. Injected with a can of beef broth.

Almost filled WSM (with foiled clay saucer in pan) with unlit Kingsford briquets and 6 hunks of hickory. Put one starter full of lit on top. Let hickory get caught good.

Meat on fat-side-down at 2:00 p.m.

Temp was only about 300 for first 45 minutes, so I turned the access hatch upside-down and propped it open a bit with a chimney starter (perfect height) to let more air in. Temp shot up, and the needle went way past the 350 gauge. Put lid back in place. Adjusted from time to time for rest of cook to keep temp around 350.

5:30: Meat at 168 in thickest part. I think the lower initial temp and large hunk of meat made it take the 3.5 hours to get here. Next time I will crank it from the get go. Put brisket in foil pan fat-side-down and covered with foil.

6:00: Meat at 189. Meat temp climbed very fast after it was foiled. I won’t hesitate to foil earlier next time once the meat has good bark.

6:20: Meat at 200 in thickest part. Took off fire and let rest in unlit oven.

Sliced after about 30 minutes rest. Very good and still moist, but I have liked brisket better when pulled at 195. Seems a little juicier when pulled at 195. That will be the goal for next time.

I’m sold on the high heat method after this run. Several lucky neighbors loved it too.

We made brisket tacos with flour tortillas, cilantro, jalapenos, cheddar cheese, scallions, and caramelized onions (the onions really add a great flavor component). I also made some Kansas City Classic Sauce per recipe at:

http://www.amazingribs.com/rec...assic_BBQ_sauce.html (http://www.amazingribs.com/recipes/BBQ_sauces/kansas_city_classic_BBQ_sauce.html)

Thanks for all the HHB tips. This is a winner.

K Kruger
08-14-2010, 07:59 PM
Very cool.

I suggest not temping at all after foiling. It is very easy to get numbers that really don't mean anything. A particular number does not 'mean' done, even with low/slow cooks. It might correlate with tender and it very well may not. Because of the change in cooking dynamics that the combo of foil and high temps fosters, temps can jump quickly sometimes (I've foiled 2.5 hours into the cook and had temps of >190 within 10 minutes).

The best way, imo, to know when the brisket is tender and done is to feel it - a probe will enter into the middle of the flat effortlessly. A temp won't tell you this.

K Kruger
08-14-2010, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by MPatti:

Most of my stuff has a weak smoke ring, not just this brisket.

What am I doing wrong? Are you letting your meats warm first or putting them in cold? Are you waiting for the cooker to get to a specific temp or loading the meat immediately when you dump the lit on the unlit?

MPatti
08-15-2010, 06:43 AM
The meat is out for maybe 30 - 45 min. before I load. I do load imediately after dumping.

Robert T.
08-21-2010, 03:19 AM
Curious on how long this will take if I am only doing a 7.5# flat. Trying to get my timing right for dinner tonight. I have done this method before and it works great but it's been a while.

Buckeye Bob

K Kruger
08-21-2010, 05:31 AM
I don't do flats, but the timing should be similar, ~4 hours. Caveat: While packers may vary in weight, weight is not very operative - overall and average thickness are, and to that end packers don't vary much. The same cannot be said of flats.

The weight of the flat doesn't mean a whole lot - and this goes for low/slow cooks as well - it's the thickness that's key, along with the grade. A 7.5-lb flat that's been 'trimmed' (read: hacked) by the 'butcher' (read: meat department employee) is not the same as a 7.5-lb flat that's been merely separated off the packer and remains otherwise unmolested.

Plan to check for tenderness a bit sooner - about 75 min or so after foiling - and gauge from there.

Dave Albracht
08-21-2010, 12:51 PM
Need a little help...

I did a 7.5 lb packer HH. Everything went beautifully. The point and the flat underneath the point were nothing short of incredible. Seriously, heaven like.

However, the other portion of the flat was approaching leather, couldn't eat it (not enjoyably). That wasn't a problem since there was only two of us.

Now what do I do. I assume I overcooked it as a whole but if I cooked less then the portion that was good would have been undercooked.

Details... Cooked at 350 till flat under point was 170. Foiled for 75 minutes. Checked for tender with probe (like butter in point and flat under point but not easy in the flat only section.

Thoughts?

K Kruger
08-25-2010, 04:18 AM
I assume I overcooked it as a whole but if I cooked less then the portion that was good would have been undercooked.
Probably not. It depends, though, on the shape of the brisket.

I have heard of 7.5-, 8-, 9-pound packers but have never seen one. Was this in cryo or in retail packaging? Beef just isn't slaughtered that young. I am asking because what I have seen on occasion is briskets in that size range that look somewhat packer-esque, but really aren't. They're trimmed (cut, really) at both ends. Just wondering.

Were the end of the flat end to be very thin it would be possible - maybe - to undercook the other end, but not very likely. However, if you are cooking something other than an actual packer imo you have to treat it like a trimmed flat and that means foiling sooner - 165 if thick, 160-ish if overtrimmed and/or thin.

Dave Albracht
08-25-2010, 07:41 AM
hmmm. I got it from my butcher. it was pretty heavily trimmed. I thought if the point and flat were still intact it would be considered a packer. Should I ask for an untrimmed packer next time?

K Kruger
08-25-2010, 12:00 PM
Packers are what packinghouses pack - whole brisket with only the deckle removed prior to packing.

If typically sized, your guy removed 40-60% of it.

Ask for a whole packer, still in the cryo. If possible, have a look at all the cryo'd ones he has. Select the one that with the best flat, i.e., a flat that is thick from point to end, rather than one with a flat that thins considerably toward its end.

Dave Elliott
08-30-2010, 06:28 AM
Has anyone tried injecting using the HH method?? I'm guessing it's not necessary since I haven't seen any mention of it here.

Dave

Chris in Louisiana
08-30-2010, 06:43 AM
Yep, I injected with a can of beef broth. (See post on page 2.)

It was good, but I have not done a HHB w/o injecting, so I have no comparison to offer. Maybe I'll try w/o next time.

Dave Elliott
08-30-2010, 06:52 AM
Thanks Chris, I missed your earlier mention of injecting.

I'm going to try my first HH this weekend and was curious about injecting it.

MKEvenson
08-30-2010, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by Dave Elliott:
Has anyone tried injecting using the HH method?? I'm guessing it's not necessary since I haven't seen any mention of it here.

Dave

Dave, did my first comp Brisky Injected with Kosmos beef injection, also did a test cook last weekend with Kosmos. I will most likely inject every time now.

Mark

Dave Elliott
08-30-2010, 05:49 PM
I inject when I cook it low 'n slow, but wasn't sure about whether or not to try it while going high heat.

Gary H. NJ
09-04-2010, 05:31 AM
I've been studying this thread for a long time. Tomorrow is my first high heat brisket! Kevin, I'm surprised that you use so little salt in the wet marinade and dry rub. Is this right? In the past I've sprinkled my brisket with kosher salt (like a light dusting of snow - about 1.5 Tbsp), then added my dry rub. I will be using a wet marinade, follow by a dry rub tomorrow. Should I lesson the amount of salt I use? Thanks.

K Kruger
09-04-2010, 06:12 AM
If you'll see here (http://tvwbb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1980069052/m/4400070474?f=1980069052&a=tpc&m=4400070474&s=98110183&cdra=Y), the paste, like several others I make, contains ingredients that already contain salt (Worcestershire and the pickled jals; in some I use beef or chicken base) so I add a pinch to the paste and some, if needed, to the rub. Salting as usual, first, risks oversalting. You can salt the meat first with less salt (don't let it sit though) to mitigate this possibility. Since I'm not looking to use the salt to draw moisture so the dry rub sticks well (the paste will do this), I will salt the meat first if making a paste with no salt-containing ingredients, but salt the paste (if necessary) if making a paste that does contain them.

Gary H. NJ
09-04-2010, 04:23 PM
Makes sense. Just put the marinade on tonight, and brisket's back in the frig. I'm up early to start the WSM. Thanks much!

MKEvenson
10-13-2010, 08:47 AM
Good day all. I have cooked several HH brisket and both for home and comp. This is the 1st time I noticed this statement in this thread:

"When you are finally done cooking, wrap anew in doubled foil (or foil pan) and stick a good 1 1/2 cups of liquid back in there, unseparated. Separate and de-fat the remainder, if desired, for sauce."

Since I have never added liquid to my final holding package and the meat has come out very nice, juicy, tasteful etc. I am wondering what added benefit I would get by adding juice to the final hold? I also realize I don't need to hold in a package at all but due to limited cooking space and other time issues I do hold at times longer than just 30-40 min tented.

Mark

K Kruger
10-13-2010, 01:20 PM
I am wondering what added benefit I would get by adding juice to the final hold?
I know of no benefit. It's not something I'd do myself. One could certainly hold in liquid, but if the temps are too high the meat will get pot roast-y.

LarryR
12-30-2010, 08:57 PM
Has anyone ever used turbinado sugar when using the HH method? I'll be running my cooker around 325. Thoughts?

K Kruger
12-30-2010, 10:11 PM
Not an issue. I only use sugar in beef rubs that need it - those with bitter elements, and that can be quite a few of my rubs for beef (unsweet cocoa, coffe, etc.) - and I routinely hit temps of over 350, even before foiling.

Sugar caramelizes at 320, burns >350 - but there is evaporation at the surface which keeps temps there lower (for a time; once surface moisture is gone all bets are off, but this does not occur with typical cooks). Because temps at the surface will hit the caramelization point eventually, if not the burn point, expect significant darkening (for me, not an issue with brisket), but not burning.

LarryR
12-30-2010, 10:39 PM
Cool, thanks Kevin, I'm doing Smoke and Spice's Coffee Cardamom rub and it calls for 1/2 cup brown sugar, figured I'd use turibinado vs. the brown sugar.

K Kruger
12-31-2010, 06:28 AM
Wow. That's a lot of sugar.

MKEvenson
12-31-2010, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by LarryR:
Has anyone ever used turbinado sugar when using the HH method? I'll be running my cooker around 325. Thoughts?

Larry, where do you want to add the sugar? And why? I only use turbinado sugar in my BBQ but not on beef.

Mark

LarryR
12-31-2010, 07:38 AM
Larry, where do you want to add the sugar? And why? I only use turbinado sugar in my BBQ but not on beef.
In the rub/paste. It's a recipe that I've done many times low and slow and absolutely love the results, and it gets rave reviews. As I stated above, the recipe calls for brown sugar, however I'm concerned about the sugar burning and have read turbinado will hold-up to heat better than others, thus my substitution and question.

You can see the entire recipe HERE (http://simpledailyrecipes.com/4359/coffee-cardamom-brisket-rub/). I cut the salt way back and use Kevin K's method of salting vs. including in the rub.

K Kruger
12-31-2010, 08:07 AM
Looks good.

Sometime try a fenugreek addition to that. 2 tablespoons, finely ground. (If you make the sauce too, add some to that.)

Let us know how it goes.

MKEvenson
01-01-2011, 07:16 AM
Larry, I see. Looks good. I am going to try. That's what I love about this site, new ideas just keep on coming.

Mark

LarryR
01-01-2011, 05:11 PM
Zero issues with the sugar, worked out great and brisket was kick ***. My two kids who are visiting who are NOT coffee fans loved it. Son even asked how he could get more of the "black stuff" that was on the outside of the brisket.

I'll post some pictures once SO gets home with the camera.

SLIDESHOW (http://s217.photobucket.com/albums/cc317/lerobinett/KK%20High%20Heat%20Brisket/?albumview=slideshow)

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc317/lerobinett/KK%20High%20Heat%20Brisket/th_Brisket1.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/albums/cc317/lerobinett/KK%20High%20Heat%20Brisket/?action=view&current=Brisket1.jpg)

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc317/lerobinett/KK%20High%20Heat%20Brisket/th_Brisket2.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/albums/cc317/lerobinett/KK%20High%20Heat%20Brisket/?action=view&current=Brisket2.jpg)

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc317/lerobinett/KK%20High%20Heat%20Brisket/th_Brisket6.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/albums/cc317/lerobinett/KK%20High%20Heat%20Brisket/?action=view&current=Brisket6.jpg)

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc317/lerobinett/KK%20High%20Heat%20Brisket/th_Brisket8.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/albums/cc317/lerobinett/KK%20High%20Heat%20Brisket/?action=view&current=Brisket8.jpg)

Mike_L
03-07-2011, 05:47 AM
Well this high heat brisket method is amazing!! First ever packer brisket. It was so simple and turned out tender and juicy.

And this was done on my large Big Green Egg. I am now a believer of this method. Talk about time saving!

Mark_C
04-17-2011, 06:39 PM
Has anyone else had any issues with fires (no joke) when smoking two briskets? Last time I did two I had a serious grease fire.... Not sure if this was a fluke or if theres a way to prevent this, etc. I'll be smoking two tomorrow for a big gathering and would rather not have any flames brisket.... So any tips are welcome! Thanks!

K Kruger
04-17-2011, 08:11 PM
How are you foiling your pan?

Mark_C
04-18-2011, 05:36 AM
Is this a trick question?! With aluminum foil...?? :-)

Seriously -- I just coat the water pan with foil (maybe 2-3 layers)... and that's it. Is there something else I should be doing? The smoke is starting in 1.5 hours... so any help would be much appreciated!

EDIT:

So, your question made me suspect that I was missing something.... so I re-read (closely) the part of the original high heat article that outlines the method for foiling the pan:


"Foil the inside of the water pan, then line with a second sheet of foil suspended about 1" above the bottom of pan. The air space created will help prevent the brisket drippings from burning during the high-heat cook."

Missed that part.... ok, will be sure to do that. Thanks!!



Thanks again!!

K Kruger
04-18-2011, 05:48 AM
There you go.

If you wish to support the upper sheet of foil you can put a few balls of crumpled foil in the pan before putting on the top sheet. This helps to maintain the air space with the heavier amount of fat generated by two briskets.

Mark_C
04-18-2011, 06:45 AM
Thanks for the great (as always) advice Kevin. I'm trying out the coffee/ancho rub today... very excited to see how it turns out. I made an espresso bbq sauce to go with it... should be interesting!

- Mark

Tylor S.
04-21-2011, 12:39 PM
How many people will 10-12 pounds (uncooked) feed? Is there a formula or a rule of thumb to adhere to?

MKEvenson
04-21-2011, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Tylor S.:
How many people will 10-12 pounds (uncooked) feed? Is there a formula or a rule of thumb to adhere to?
Tylor, I figure 50% loss with packers due to trim and moisture loss from cooking. Figure at least 4oz serving per person if you have plenty of sides and maybe a second meat. If not figure more.

Hope that helps.

Mark

Steve E (Lititz, PA)
05-21-2011, 10:59 AM
Hello everyone. I'm currently working on my first 10lb. high heat brisket. The beast hit 170 in about 1 hour 45 minutes. I foiled it in a pan and it quickly hit 190 in about 30 minutes. I know from previous readings to ignore this temperature and base it on the tenderness test.

My question is what is the shortest time anyone has achieved tenderness after foiling?

MKEvenson
05-21-2011, 11:38 AM
Steve, having never cooked a full packer less than 12 lbs, I estimate 2 hrs in foil. I have cooked smaller trim pieces and they were done in 1-1 1/2
hrs. Don't worry about the time. COOK TILL DONE!!!!

Let us know how she turned out.

Mark

Paul H
05-21-2011, 02:44 PM
Steve, Mark is pretty close on the time. Once wrapped I check every 45 minutes or so till it's done

Tom (Gunner)
05-25-2011, 06:51 AM
I posted this in the BBQ section but just realized this thread might be more appropriate! Any suggestions would be appreciated..thanks!

Hey Guys/Gals,

So I am attempting my first brisket flat this Saturday. I went to a local butcher and asked for a brisket flat and he ended up trimming it down to 5.35 pounds. I have no idea if it's choice or anything but dang it was expensive..$6.98 per pound! I couldn't believe it when he told me the total cost. Anyways, it seems real thin, it's only about an inch and a half or so thick all the way through. Does that seem too thin? I am going to try the HH method. I understand to pull it and foil it after it hits 170 right? The only thing I am unclear is how soon after I foil it should I check for probe tenderness? Is it pretty obvious when it is tender enough to pull and rest? I am pretty nervous, I don't want to screw it up since it was like $40.00 bucks and it's my first one...Thanks all!

Mark_C
05-25-2011, 09:13 AM
Hey Tom:

I don't know how just a flat will turn out using the high heat method. The method, as outlined, requires a whole packer (point and flat together). These are usually available at your butcher, or even Costco/Sams. These are usually around 12 lbs and more like $2-$3 a pound.

I don't want to say "don't even bother with just the flat"... but I'm tempted!

- Mark

MKEvenson
05-25-2011, 10:08 AM
The HH method works with whatever size meat you want to cook. Just have to make timing adjustments. Go fer it!!!!!!!!

Mark

DaleW
07-05-2011, 03:38 PM
My schedule doesn't allow me to visit this board very often anymore, and when I do I'm usually looking for something specific. I just wanted to pop in and give encouragement to anyone who has been thinking about giving this technique a try but hasn't got around to it yet. I smoked 2 briskets on my 22.5 on July 4 using pretty much Chris' excellently documented high heat cook (http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/brisket4.html) as a guide. I placed one on the upper rack, one on lower, then switched when I foiled them. I used Kevin's rub suggested for tri tip (http://tvwbb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1780069052/m/8790047984?r=2510097984#2510097984). And I used Steve's No. 5 Sauce (http://tvwbb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1980069052/m/2870053653) with the drippings added as recommended. I have to say it might be the best meat of any type I have ever cooked in any manner. So if you're waiting, get with it!
Sorry, I didn't get pictures, but I do have witnesses!

M Getty
08-17-2011, 08:28 AM
I'm sure this has been discussed in depth somewhere and I'm just missing it, but I figured bumping this thread might be better than starting a new one.

I'm doing my first HH brisket on Saturday. I'm pretty sure I'll get put out to the couch if I don't come with some burnt ends. My question, after I remove the point and foil the flat, with the temps reaching >350, is there a suggested time for the point to cook? Is there a specific internal temp, feel, or look that indicates the point needs to come off?

TIA

Marc

K Kruger
08-17-2011, 09:50 AM
I am not a burnt ends fan so rarely do them, but when I need to I do not remove the point from the flat before foiling. I cook the brisket till done, then remove the point and return it to the cooker. At that point I choke the vents so the temps eventually drop some, cook the point longer, chop and pan with a soupçon of sauce, and finish.

You can remove the point if you prefer, sooner. Do note that it will not have the foil protection so be careful of temps over 350 for an extended period (I tend to run 375 or higher after foiling), especially if you have sugar(s) in the rub. No specific internal; cook till the fat has rendered well, chop/chunk, then finish.

M Getty
08-17-2011, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by K Kruger:
I am not a burnt ends fan so rarely do them, but when I need to I do not remove the point from the flat before foiling. I cook the brisket till done, then remove the point and return it to the cooker. At that point I choke the vents so the temps eventually drop some, cook the point longer, chop and pan with a soupçon of sauce, and finish.

You can remove the point if you prefer, sooner. Do note that it will not have the foil protection so be careful of temps over 350 for an extended period (I tend to run 375 or higher after foiling), especially if you have sugar(s) in the rub. No specific internal; cook till the fat has rendered well, chop/chunk, then finish.

It was my initial thought to finish it whole, remove the point, choke the cooker, and throw the point back on, but this being my first HH, I wanted to follow the OP as closely as possible.

I appreciate your input and will give it a go.

K Kruger
08-17-2011, 01:03 PM
I don't know about the OP. But since it's your first don't separate till after the brisker is done and restmin, tented, for ten min. Serve the brisket ten to fifteen min later.

M Getty
08-17-2011, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by K Kruger:
I don't know about the OP. But since it's your first don't separate till after the brisker is done and restmin, tented, for ten min. Serve the brisket ten to fifteen min later.

I'll do it.

Thanks.

Monty House
09-19-2011, 06:02 PM
cook till the fat has rendered well, chop/chunk, then finish.

Kevin, could you please explain "finish"?

K Kruger
09-20-2011, 08:10 AM
Toss with rub, sauce or thinned sauce (my preference - and not very much) and continue till the rub and/or sauce has caramelized and tightened. (To me, burnt ends should not be saucy in the least.)

RodneyS
12-27-2011, 07:18 PM
I know this thread hasn't been touched in a while, but did want to say thanks to all who contributed. I cooked a 13 pound packer on the 26" with temps running from 350-400 on Christmas eve.
It was SO GOOD, and so easy! Took about 5 hours. I used firebricks to section off about 1/3 of the charcoal grate for coals. Used Stubbs for the first time and relly liked them. (Was also cooking a shoulder at the same time on the WSM and Temps held the best ever on both ).
I placed a large foil pan on the charcoal grate under the brisket with a foil under it and going up the side of the bricks.
Started with about 20 partially lit charcoals on top. And about 4 fist full size chunks of cherry.

I used Kruger's paste, without the onion, and BIG BAD BEEF RUB from Amazing Ribs website.

Big hit with family on both sides, will definitely make it again.


Thanks everyone for your help!

Scooter B
02-07-2012, 09:17 PM
Well as much as I love sharing sucesses, I thought i would share a bit of a failure to hopefully prevent others from my oversight.

Biggest mistake was thermometer placement.. i forgot to put in thermometer when first loading so about an hour in I had to open up and quickly get it in... the error (that i didn't notice)was that i was mostly into the point section. As a result I left it run FAR too long prior to foiling. I didn't put 2 and 2 together when my internal temp stalled before 160F.

Another thing i will change was the foil pan I used. I used one almost the whole upper grate and i feel it really restricted the airflow.

All this and yet I still love the HH method. This one is on me and not the method!

K Kruger
02-07-2012, 09:50 PM
No need for a therm at all.

NealT
06-11-2012, 09:49 AM
Let me say that I'm a brisket newbie and have only done about 5 or 6 on my WSM.

Tried my first HH yesterday.

Put on the meat at 3:15pm. Something was weird with my thermometers. Took over an hour for temps to roughly stabilize. The grate thermometer read about 325-350 but the lid thermometer was low (maybe around 275). Propped the door open a bit to get the heat higher and that seemed to work (grate=375'ish and lid at about 325-350).

5:45pm: meat temp ranged from 164-170 in multiple places. Decided it was time to place in a foil roasting plan and covered with foil. Cooking temp appeared to spike a bit to 425 at the grate (maybe due to opening the lid to foil the meat).

7:30pm: probed with a fork for tenderness and it seemed ready (like butter).

Then came the crucial mistake: I tried to firm up the bark so I put the unfoiled meat back on for 30 minutes (set my timer) but received a phone call so I didn't pull it off until about 40 minutes. I think the grate temp shot up and the ends were overdone and the middle was dry.

After removing the brisket, I then took the point to make burnt ends. Closed off all the bottom vents to bring the temp down from grate temp of 400 to 240 (after about 30 minutes)

Left the point on for another 3 hours and that was too long. Too crispy on some parts.

The taste of the flat was a bit...."chemical". I wonder if the temp didn't get hot enough before I put on the meat.

Overall, I think the method would have worked if I pulled off the brisket after the fork probe and not have attempted the bark firming/burnt ends steps.

K Kruger
06-11-2012, 01:11 PM
If you are going to firm the bark (I don't bother as crisp bark on a brisket is not something I look for) it should only take a few minutes (maybe 7-10 tops) at high temps.

I load the meat as soon as I pour the lit (about 24 coals) on the unlit. Never had a chemical taste. Maybe it was the fuel, maybe the wood.

NealT
06-12-2012, 12:16 PM
Doh! I'll try 5 minutes next time when I want to firm up the bark. She keeps telling me "DON'T OVERDUE THE BRISKET!!!" so I'll listen to her http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Been using Kingsford but maybe I need to let the chimney get to the "white coal" stage. They may have been at the "mostly gray" when I put it on the unlit coals.

Thanks for the tips, Kevin.

Dave Ables
06-22-2012, 05:41 AM
Need a little help here. This went great for me, but I noticed the end result was a texture that was kind of "Pot-roastish" Is this normal? I haven't eaten a lot of brisket, but have enjoyed what I have. I'm wondering if I did something wrong. Maybe foiled too long or too early?

K Kruger
06-22-2012, 11:44 AM
My first guess would be rested too long, especially if wrapped in foil. How did you rest and for how long?

Monty House
06-30-2012, 10:19 AM
Is there a downside to me not using Minion if I have two chimneys, e.g., with roughly a single layer of unlit on the bottom, two heaping lit chimneys fill the ring (and then some).

With no water in the pan, I start out 350+ plus, and I believe from experience that that amount of charcoal--both lit & unlit--would easily keep me at target temp for 5+ hours.

Thoughts?

Sully
07-01-2012, 06:26 AM
I finally got brave and did a high-heat brisket yesterday. Thought I'd give my blow by blow to help convince other first-timers to give it a go:

14 pound packer from Sams @ $2.38 a pound. Did a little trimming, then put on Kevin's Paste Rub and a fairly standard homemade dry rub the night before.

I was antsy all morning thinking I needed to get the charcoal going, but managed to hold off till 11am. I used the Minion Method (http://virtualweberbullet.com/fireup2.html) with a few handfuls of hickory and applewood chips. I foil wrapped the water bowl with a double layer, separated by a few balls of foil to create an air space as suggested by the original poster.
Put the meat on right outta the fridge, fat side down, while the smoker was still warming up. My temps got up to 350-375. Propped the door open at first, but quickly found I didn't need it. It was 105 degrees out and in the sun. (heck, I might not have needed charcoal at all).
Took about 3 hours to hit 170. I took it off, found I couldn't wedge it into the foil pan I had, so I foil wrapped it (fat side down still) and placed it on top the pan so I wouldn't lose any juice.
I continued to follow the temps, but as the OP said, it was not a reliable number. Indeed, the temps quickly shot up and were over 200 within an hour. Based on a fork probe, I decided I was close at about 90 minutes. I unwrapped it and put it back on the open fire to firm up the bark for about 30 more minutes.

It was off the fire at about 5:30pm. I foil wrapped it with some of the drippings and put it in a cooler to rest. Finally sliced it at 7pm. Served it with Steve's No. 5 Sauce (http://tvwbb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1980069052/m/2870053653) with the remainder of the de-fatted drippings mixed in.

Tell you what, it was hands down the best meat I've ever cooked. Don't think I'll ever do the overnight method again. My buddies who are all avid cooks were shocked this beast of a brisket could get so tender, so fast. My only advice is to try it for yourself.
I thank all the prior posters on this thread especially Kevin Kruger for his feedback over the 2 years this thread had been alive!

-Sully

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee504/md_sullivan/brisketon.jpg

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee504/md_sullivan/Brisketdone.jpg

Greg W
08-22-2012, 10:02 AM
Quick question, and I tried scanning through the topic for the answer. But am I setting myself up for less-than-ideal results by simply using an untrimmed flat purchased from Costco? I do have access to whole packers, but it's a bit inconvenient for me to get to the supplier.

I'd like to cook brisket this weekend, so your communal response/advice is greatly appreciated...thanks!

NealT
08-23-2012, 12:51 PM
I've only done high heat a few times with a whole packer. However, I wouldn't think there would be much of a hit by using only the untrimmed flat.

The times I've done HH is with a Walmart ungraded brisket and results were just "OK". I was able to find a "choice" graded at Smart and Final and will try that next. The ungraded was a bit too lean and I was getting used to the HH method so I'm sure that contributed to the less than ideal result.

Bear Sheppard
10-18-2012, 06:21 AM
I wanted to briefly chime in with my success story. I had two hunks of brisket provided to me for smoking by a friend. My friend scored 40 lbs of brisket on mark down, took each packer and cut them roughly in half, then froze them. What I got was a 4 lb tip and a 5 lb flat. Oh and I suggested next time that he NOT cut the packers up.

We were planning on a Sunday afternoon feast so I was fretting over what time to start a smoke (midnight or a little later perhaps) when another friend who had tried both the midnight cook and this high heat method encouraged me to go high heat. I"M GLAD HE DID. It exceeded my expectations. Several of my guests proclaimed that it was the best brisket they had ever had :-).

Since I had two pieces I decided to vary the rubs a little. For the tip I used "Jims all night rub" as listed in the original recipe except that I put the sugar back in the rub. For the flat I used coffee and cardamom paste rub found here: http://simpledailyrecipes.com/4359/coffee-cardamom-brisket-rub/

I used large hunks of apple wood and I chose to put the meat on as soon as I added the hot coals (meaning that I did not wait for the grill temp to come up before starting). Maintaining the target temp of 325-350 was challenging as it was a very windy day. Often the lid temp would read at 300 so I kept fiddling with the side door. Then in one very brief period the temp shot up to 400. That really scared me since I had sugar in both rubs and didn't want that to burn. Eventually I found a somewhat tenuous truce on the temp by holding the door open about an 1" and sitting on my hands when the temp was on the low side, just trying to be patient and let it come up on it's own.

When it came time to foil wrap it, there was a rain storm approaching so I decided to finish in the oven. At least then I could tightly control the temp and I would no longer even care about the weather.

As I said, it was really good. As far as the two rubs, there wasn't a whole lot of difference between them. Next time I'll only use Jims as it was a little easier to use (the coffee paste didn't want to stay on where as the dry rub stuck wherever I put it).

I want to add a shout out of my appreciation to those who make this site so great. Whether it's the simple step by step recipes (instructions) or the many many contributors to the forums who share their experiences and knowledge. This site is an example of the good stuff.

Bear

RichPB (richlife)
10-25-2012, 06:21 PM
I've been doing low and slow brisket for my family for a couple of years now and had really good results. Since my in-laws are only familiar with true Texas brisket, I've felt very good about this.

But I've been tempted by Kevin's HH posts for the past year now and it's time to try. Searching out this thread is fantastic!

I just got two 14 lb+ briskets from Walmart -- both the best looking I've ever seen. The thin ends are about 1 1/4 -1 1/2" thick and the fat cap less than what I've seen as the normal huge pad. One (the left-pointing) is in the freezer the other will be HH on Sat. for my Mom's 89th.

I'll open a separate thread of my own on this cook, but I wanted to say "thanks" in advance to all who helped and posted here and especially Kevin who continues to be my inspiration. I'll also put an "outcome" post here to close this out.

Rich

RichPB (richlife)
10-30-2012, 08:01 AM
Ok, just to wrap up on this, I did do the HH method on a 14 lb brisket this past Saturday. The brisket came out tasting great but too dry and I had several difficulties in the process. I'm going to open a new thread on this and hopefully ya'll can help me figure out the problem -- because I'm gonna do this again! :wsm:

Rich

Mark Rosen
11-19-2012, 11:55 AM
Do I need to avoid a rub with ANY sugar when doing a HH brisket?

Craig Castille
04-19-2014, 10:10 AM
I wouldn't use any sugar for a HH cook.

I've been doing HH cooks for years now, and still enjoy the process ending up with consistent results.

Dave Russell
04-19-2014, 10:40 AM
Do I need to avoid a rub with ANY sugar when doing a HH brisket?

Not as long as you don't use too much or wrap way too late. Myron Mixon's recipe in his book calls for a teaspoon to 1/4 cup of rub, and I've used more than that with no issues.

Len Ruvolo
11-19-2014, 11:43 AM
Guys,

First of all, thanks so much for all this great information. I am relatively new to the community, having bought a Smokey mountain cooker about three years ago with no prior experience using a smoker. To say i am in love with the cooker, the process, the website and this forum is an understatement.

i have tried three midnight brisket cooks and have never been truly satisfied with the results, with lack of moistness being my primary problem. My son and I finally tried the high heat method with a 14 lb superior grade packer brisket from Restaurant Depot, employing just a dry rub, and we were blown away by the outcome. We got great bark, great smoke and the desired tenderness on our first try. We actually screwed up a bit as we were smoking the brisket while working on a carpentry project and took our eye off the ball, resulting in placing the brisket in the foil at the three hour mark with an internal temperature (measured horizontally in the flat) at 185. We completed the cook at the five hour mark after a probe went in like the proverbial butter. Lid temperatures the first two hours stayed around the 325 mark, so we propped open the door and the rest of the cook was in the 350-375 range. Again, the combination of great bark and super moist tender meat blew us away. Having read that this result sometimes did not always happen to others who more closely the recommended change to the foil at 170 degrees, I am wondering if our accidental variation to the recipe is a refinement worth repeating.

John Thompson
06-15-2015, 01:24 PM
Thank you so much from Blighty

http://www.bionicmunky.com/brisket.jpg

Steve McKibben
02-16-2016, 01:11 PM
Any reason I shouldn't try this on a kettle?