Another bacon smoking question


 
T

tjkoko

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Somewhere at this forum (methinks) a poster mentioned to not taking the temperature of the pork side/belly, while smoking, above 110F and absolutely do not take the bacon temp above 125F according to the master chef for who he worked.

Why is this discrepancy when everyone else takes the belly temp to 140F-150F, a much higher temperature? Anything wrong with smoking to an internal temperature of 110F-125F????
 
No "master chef" would make such a silly claim.

Bacon is not salmon. It is not usually cold-smoked nor taken to such a low internal. To go that low could invite problems (don't eat it without further cooking). I don't really see the point in going that low (what's your rationale?) as I see no benefit in flavor or texture doing so.
 
The only thing I've read is that taking the meat to a temperature above 140F kills ALL bacteria. That's what I've read in texts concerning meat smoking.

IN my inexperience with smoking, a removing the meat at lower temperatures equals fat retention. The fat isn't rendered. And my 'philosophy' is that fat flavors food.
 
Temps of 140 or higher will pasteurize (not sterilize) foods if the time at 140 (or higher) is sufficient. It is time @ temp that determines if pasteurization is achieved. (Trich parasites, if present, are killed at > 137 if sufficient time passes.)

As long as temps don't get too near the upper 150s/160 or higher fat will be retained. Gentle smoking temps are used so that the belly's exterior doesn't overheat while the interior temps rise. That keeps exterior fat from rendering. Start with low smoking temps and let them drift gently upwards, or start low then purposely ramp up periodically as the belly smokes, keeping the rise and top moderate.
 
I'm still searching for the post or link that states to never take the slab above 110F and will report back when I find it.

How much time at 140F is required to kill microbes?
 
A bit over 11 min. At 135, 36 min; at 130, 113 min; at 145 4 min; at 150, a bit over 1 min.
 
Originally posted by K Kruger:
See this.
Click to expand...

What about cold smoking possibilities? Are cold smoked bacon slabs ever brought above 100F or do they continue to smoke at lower temperatures (<100F) for a few (or several) days??? If so can you please provide a time@temp chart similar to the one at your listed link.

Seems according to the chart listed here I could hold my slabs at 120F for at least 21 hours and therefore in a cold smoked environment much much longer.
 
A lot of the fat gets rendered out when the finished slices get fried. I'm not sure of the logic of trying to preserve 100% of the fat when after frying most of it will be in the pan anyways.

The last batch I did, did not achieve 140* in the time (or charcoal) I had allotted, so to finish it in a reasonable amount of time, I chucked it in a 300* oven on a cookie sheet. I lost a bit of fat, but the finished product came out fine.

I'm coming to the conclusion that bacon is really hard to screw up, so I'm trying not to over think it. Sure I want to make the best product possible, but at this point in the learning curve, I'm shooting for lots of trials, and not too concerned about the specifics.
 
I'm finding that I prefer keeping the temperatures low, around 110F, for an hour or two before opining the vents, gradually, to reach a slab temperature of 140-145F - around 2 plus/minus hours later. Retarding elevated temperatures imho gives a product where the dark part of the bacon doesn't seem as 'hard'.
 
What about cold smoking possibilities? Are cold smoked bacon slabs ever brought above 100F or do they continue to smoke at lower temperatures (<100F) for a few (or several) days??? If so can you please provide a time@temp chart similar to the one at your listed link.Seems according to the chart listed here I could hold my slabs at 120F for at least 21 hours and therefore in a cold smoked environment much much longer.
Click to expand...
The chart to which you refer is for trich kill, not for bacteria kill. There is not a time @ temp chart for cold smoking or very low-temp cooking because the cook temps and finish internals are insufficiently high enough (130? minimum is required) for bacteriostatic or bactericidal reliability.
 
Did a google on 'cold smoking bacon' and among the many links that popped up, here are a couple of 'em:

http://cowgirlscountry.blogspo...-3-cold-smoking.html

http://www.thesmokering.com/fo...ewtopic.php?p=263715


And I take no responsibility for any results anyone gets using those links. However, I get the feeling from reading info at those links that as long as the meat is properly cured, then the smoking temperature is irrelevant. The cure has, indeed, killed the bacteria and other microorganisms. Correct me if I'm wrong. I mean, can't bacon be cooked as long as it's been cured and not smoked???


Well, here's another comment at cowgirlscountry:

The work on my smokehouse is progresing well. Hope to have it completed before too long. I am looking forward to making my first slab of bacon. I have a question. You cold smoked your bacon below 100 degrees, more like 65 degrees. Rytek Kutas says that he pre heats his smoke house to 135 degrees, applies smoke and holds until internal temperature of bacon reaches 127 - 128 degrees F. Then he reduces temperature of smoker to 120 degrees F. and holds until "desired color is obtained". Is all that really necessary? Do I need to cold smoke than hot smoke? I would appreciate your help on this.


It appears that it all boils down to "until desired color is obtained".
 
Correct me if I'm wrong. I mean, can't bacon be cooked as long as it's been cured and not smoked???
Click to expand...

when I make pancetta, it goes straight from the cure to drying (hanging). It eventually gets cooked but I've eaten it essentially raw.

Anybody know the procedure for "double smoked" bacon. I picked some up in NYC because I was curious.
 
However, I get the feeling from reading info at those links that as long as the meat is properly cured, then the smoking temperature is irrelevant. The cure has, indeed, killed the bacteria and other microorganisms. Correct me if I'm wrong. I mean, can't bacon be cooked as long as it's been cured and not smoked???
Click to expand...
If the meat is properly cured bacteria would have been killed, reduced and/or prevented from outgrowth. Smoke is an additional bactericide and bacteriostat.

One can certainly cold-smoke bacon. That would not be my choice as its texture is much like prosciutto that has been smoked well. Not something I am looking for when I think of bacon myself, but different strokes.

'Double-smoked' can be affixed to any bacon - there is no standard definition. However, you know you have the real deal if it is too intense to to be fried and served as one normally might. Its heritage is German. It is pickle brined-belly that is slow smoked for 24-48 hours. It is mostly diced or minced and used as a sauce foundation, to flavor soups, etc. It should be leaner, as more of the fat is allowed to slowly render over the longer time in the smoker.
 
What follows is a reply I received from DeRamus Family Meats in Alabama, to my inquiry as to their method of bacon curing and smoking:

WE SMOKE OUR BACON AT 110 DEG FOR THE FIRST FEW DAYS .THEN BRING IT UP TO 130 INTERNAL TEMP FOR 30 MINUTES, THEN TURN IT BACK DOWN TO 110 DEG AND LET IT FINISH SMOKEING . SMOKE IT UNTIL WE LIKE THE COLOR. AND LET IT COOL DO NOT LET IT TOUCH WHILE COOLING AS IT COULD POSIBLY SOUR WHERE IT TOUCHES. WHEN IT IS COOLED IT IS READY TO GO. AND IS A SHELF STABLE PRODUCT.

WE DO USE NITRITES AND SALT AND SUGAR FOR CURING . THE BACON IS IN CURE FOR 21 DAYS OR LONGER NO MORE THAN 28..

WE DO SOAK OUR BACON FOR TWO DAYS CHANGEING THE WATER SEVERAL TIMES TO REMOVE EXCESS SALT , USING WARM WATER.

HOPE THIS HELPS YOU . GOOD LUCK AND GOD BLESS
 
Pretty dramatic. Neither the long cure is necessary, nor is cold-smoking (unless you like that sort of finish; most bacon is not cold-smoked, though it is often smoked at the low end of the hot-smoke range). I've never noticed a positive difference in bacon that is cured excessively but one certainly can.
 
Originally posted by K Kruger:
...I've never noticed a positive difference in bacon that is cured excessively but one certainly can.
Click to expand...

Then I really would insist on your ordering a whole slab from them to taste the difference. In its own way their bacon tastes just great.
 
I'm not doubting you. I'm just saying that when I've extended curing of my own bacon I don't notice anything that would make me want to extend the cure on purpose.
 
Originally posted by K Kruger:
A bit over 11 min. At 135, 36 min; at 130, 113 min; at 145 4 min; at 150, a bit over 1 min.
Click to expand...

Should this be 11 or 13 minutes at 130F???? Here's my chart based on the times you state:


Temp Time
130F 11 or 13 minutes
135F 36 minutes
140F 11+ minutes
145F 4 minutes
150F 1+ minutes
 
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