I was watching the food channel the other night and I would have sworn that Alton said that alcohol NEVER completely cooks out of what ever it's added to. Is this true?? I always thought if you cooked it long enough the alcohol eventually disappated(spelling?) leaving just the flavor.
Adding Alcohol to Sauces
- Thread starter Paul H
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Scott Greenia
TVWBB Pro
I've heard several people say that. They also mention that what remains is only trace amounts, and there's nothing to worry about serving the food to people with alcohol allergies.
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
paul--
You and Alton are both right. Cooked for long enough--over 3 hours--so little remains (you're down in the low single digit percentages here)that it is fairly negligible, especially if what's left is spread out through the sauce, stew, baked dish, or whatever. But is it all (100%) gone? Possibly, possibly not. It depends on what you're cooking it in (how it's suspended), and you'd actually have to test the particular item you're cooking to see how much, if any, remains.
But shorter cooking times do not remove as much alcohol as you'd think:
Preparation method and percentage of alcohol retained:
alcohol added to boiling liquid & removed from heat 85%
alcohol flamed 75%
no heat, stored overnight 70%
baked, 25 minutes, alcohol not stirred into mixture 45%
baked/simmered, alcohol stirred into mixture: 15 minutes 40%; 30 minutes 35%; 1 hour 25%; 1.5 hours 20%; 2 hours 10%; 2.5 hours 5%
You and Alton are both right. Cooked for long enough--over 3 hours--so little remains (you're down in the low single digit percentages here)that it is fairly negligible, especially if what's left is spread out through the sauce, stew, baked dish, or whatever. But is it all (100%) gone? Possibly, possibly not. It depends on what you're cooking it in (how it's suspended), and you'd actually have to test the particular item you're cooking to see how much, if any, remains.
But shorter cooking times do not remove as much alcohol as you'd think:
Preparation method and percentage of alcohol retained:
alcohol added to boiling liquid & removed from heat 85%
alcohol flamed 75%
no heat, stored overnight 70%
baked, 25 minutes, alcohol not stirred into mixture 45%
baked/simmered, alcohol stirred into mixture: 15 minutes 40%; 30 minutes 35%; 1 hour 25%; 1.5 hours 20%; 2 hours 10%; 2.5 hours 5%
Steve Petrone
TVWBB Diamond Member
I did not beieve what you reported Kevin.
So I did some research. Kevin you exactly correct according to a USDA study. I am shocked so much alcohol remains.
So I did some research. Kevin you exactly correct according to a USDA study. I am shocked so much alcohol remains.
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Funny, Ray!
Steve-- Though it was not surprising to see the very low numbers (down to trace amounts) associated with prolonged cooking, more than a few of us were surprised when preliminary studies--later confirmed by the USDA whose numbers I quoted--showed such high figures for the flamed and short-cooked, by far the most common sauce techniques used in western kitchens when alcohol is involved.
Steve-- Though it was not surprising to see the very low numbers (down to trace amounts) associated with prolonged cooking, more than a few of us were surprised when preliminary studies--later confirmed by the USDA whose numbers I quoted--showed such high figures for the flamed and short-cooked, by far the most common sauce techniques used in western kitchens when alcohol is involved.
Kevin, one further question on this . Do the tests indicate how long you would have to boil alchohol to have single digit or less?? I know when you use wine in making tomato sauce the ingredients need to cook down for some time but using the same theory on BBQ sauce I don't know? Would you want to boil your BBQ sauce that long? Reminds me of some Q I had at a local BBQ contest last year. The guy must have confused cooking Jack Daniels down with basting the ribs with it. It was horrible. Couldn't get the taste out of my mouth for hours. Had to smoke two cigars to get rid of the after taste.
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
paul--
Once you get past 2 hours you're down to the high singles, past 3 hours your down to less than 2%--actually less, probably more like <1%. Your sauce does not need to boil for the duration, just simmer. Alcohol evaporates at 172 or higher.
If any alcohol is a concern there are a couple things you can do. One would be to simmer longer than 3 hours (bring to a boil first, then reduce to a simmer); the other would be to simmer the alcohol portion of the sauce first, separately, then add it to your sauce. How long you could simmer it alone would depend on its original volume.
Alcohol (the actual alcohol component of spirits) is not a concern to me, but for other reasons (taste, primarily) I do not cook sauces for extended periods--even tomato sauces for pasta. But, were it a concern, I would note that usually the spirits component of a sauce (with a few exceptions) is already small to begin with, and the alcohol component of the spirits smaller still--even before cooking. Cooking, even for a brief period, will reduce the alcohol component further yet. But if you want virtually no alcohol to remain you'll have to cook it for a while, either in the sauce, separately, or both.
Once you get past 2 hours you're down to the high singles, past 3 hours your down to less than 2%--actually less, probably more like <1%. Your sauce does not need to boil for the duration, just simmer. Alcohol evaporates at 172 or higher.
If any alcohol is a concern there are a couple things you can do. One would be to simmer longer than 3 hours (bring to a boil first, then reduce to a simmer); the other would be to simmer the alcohol portion of the sauce first, separately, then add it to your sauce. How long you could simmer it alone would depend on its original volume.
Alcohol (the actual alcohol component of spirits) is not a concern to me, but for other reasons (taste, primarily) I do not cook sauces for extended periods--even tomato sauces for pasta. But, were it a concern, I would note that usually the spirits component of a sauce (with a few exceptions) is already small to begin with, and the alcohol component of the spirits smaller still--even before cooking. Cooking, even for a brief period, will reduce the alcohol component further yet. But if you want virtually no alcohol to remain you'll have to cook it for a while, either in the sauce, separately, or both.
adam clyde
TVWBB Pro
I don't drink any alcohol for religious reasons. But I do use some in sauces - mostly for deglazing roasting pans.
When I do it, I deglaze the roasting pans with a small amount of white wine, which bubbles on contact effusively, at which time I scrape off the fond. By the time I'm done - a matter of a 20-30 seconds or so, the wine is nearly all evaporated. All that is left is a little bit of liquid bubbling. Essentially a highly concentrated wine, sans nearly all of the alcohol. Then I add another liquid, if needed, to finish the deglazing, and add to or start making the sauce.
By doing it that way, I think I'm removing nearly all of the alcohol. And it only takes a fraction of time. True, some very small trace amount remains, but by nearly evaporating nearly all of the wine immediately, and by not using a ton of it to start with, I'm fine with that method.
When I do it, I deglaze the roasting pans with a small amount of white wine, which bubbles on contact effusively, at which time I scrape off the fond. By the time I'm done - a matter of a 20-30 seconds or so, the wine is nearly all evaporated. All that is left is a little bit of liquid bubbling. Essentially a highly concentrated wine, sans nearly all of the alcohol. Then I add another liquid, if needed, to finish the deglazing, and add to or start making the sauce.
By doing it that way, I think I'm removing nearly all of the alcohol. And it only takes a fraction of time. True, some very small trace amount remains, but by nearly evaporating nearly all of the wine immediately, and by not using a ton of it to start with, I'm fine with that method.
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Then I add another liquid, if needed, to finish the deglazing, and add to or start making the sauce. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And what little might remain gets further spread out since you add more liquid and other ingredients.
A similar thing can be done with a Q sauce and, in fact, is how I usually do it. Since I usually caramelize onions and other aromatics first (akin to the roasting you do), I deglaze with the spirits (wine, liquor, etc.) allowing most to evaporate in the pot before adding the other liquids and ingredients. All this gets brought to a boil then reduced at a simmer. When I want a distinct liquor/wine flavor I'll add a few tablespoons late in the sauce making and not cook it much. But a step like that can certainly be eliminated.
And what little might remain gets further spread out since you add more liquid and other ingredients.
A similar thing can be done with a Q sauce and, in fact, is how I usually do it. Since I usually caramelize onions and other aromatics first (akin to the roasting you do), I deglaze with the spirits (wine, liquor, etc.) allowing most to evaporate in the pot before adding the other liquids and ingredients. All this gets brought to a boil then reduced at a simmer. When I want a distinct liquor/wine flavor I'll add a few tablespoons late in the sauce making and not cook it much. But a step like that can certainly be eliminated.
Steve Petrone
TVWBB Diamond Member
Ray, question authority.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Ray, question authority. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
IMO Kruger is definitely an "authority" but I must also add that I think you are also evry experienced and I respect your posts also.
Ray
IMO Kruger is definitely an "authority" but I must also add that I think you are also evry experienced and I respect your posts also.
Ray
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