Steve Petrone
TVWBB Diamond Member
Twice I have seen recommendations for quick over dry. What's your take? My interest is in FLAVOR not speed.
Yeast: dry or quick?
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David Lohrentz
TVWBB Pro
Avoid quick yeast if you want good flavor. Active dry yeast is what you want.
Professional bakers typically use moist cake yeast, but that is a little impractical for home bakers unless you bake bread at least several times a week. Edit to add: it is hard to find in small portions appropriate for home use.
Bread should not be rushed. You will be rewarded with good texture and flavor for doing it low-and-slow. I typically start with a 12 hour sponge (poolish) with just a quarter teaspoon of yeast, flour and water with 100 strong strokes to get the gluten started, then add that to the dough; then proof at 50-60 degrees.
Professional bakers typically use moist cake yeast, but that is a little impractical for home bakers unless you bake bread at least several times a week. Edit to add: it is hard to find in small portions appropriate for home use.
Bread should not be rushed. You will be rewarded with good texture and flavor for doing it low-and-slow. I typically start with a 12 hour sponge (poolish) with just a quarter teaspoon of yeast, flour and water with 100 strong strokes to get the gluten started, then add that to the dough; then proof at 50-60 degrees.
David, I totally agree that bread should not be rushed. I once tried freezing fresh yeast...it wasn't convenient for me nor did it freeze very well. As you pointed out, it's not practical for the occasional home baker.
Steve, a small point: it is not quick yeast, it's instant. Active dry yeast contains a lot of dead yeast cells and instant does not, so one should use roughly about 66% instant yeast for the active dry to maintain the same long fermentation times called for in the recipe. Using an equal amount of instant yeast for the active dry called for in a recipe will result in a fermentation that will not allow enough time for the flavors to build in a dough. Here is a conversion chart that will get you close. I usually wind up using just a little less than the chart suggests. After reducing your instant yeast for the first time, you can then tweak the amount for longer or shorter fermentation times as desired.
http://home.earthlink.net/~ggda/convert_yeast_two.htm
Instant works very well in the poolish process and I mostly rehydrate instant yeast before using it either in water or during the autolyse.
Flavor comes from longer fermentation and proof times, and retarding the dough (in the refrigerator for several hours or overnight) enhances the flavor even more. I don't think anyone could tell a difference between breads baked with instant or with active dry yeast, providing that the fermentation and proof times are the same in both instances.
Rita
Steve, a small point: it is not quick yeast, it's instant. Active dry yeast contains a lot of dead yeast cells and instant does not, so one should use roughly about 66% instant yeast for the active dry to maintain the same long fermentation times called for in the recipe. Using an equal amount of instant yeast for the active dry called for in a recipe will result in a fermentation that will not allow enough time for the flavors to build in a dough. Here is a conversion chart that will get you close. I usually wind up using just a little less than the chart suggests. After reducing your instant yeast for the first time, you can then tweak the amount for longer or shorter fermentation times as desired.
http://home.earthlink.net/~ggda/convert_yeast_two.htm
Instant works very well in the poolish process and I mostly rehydrate instant yeast before using it either in water or during the autolyse.
Flavor comes from longer fermentation and proof times, and retarding the dough (in the refrigerator for several hours or overnight) enhances the flavor even more. I don't think anyone could tell a difference between breads baked with instant or with active dry yeast, providing that the fermentation and proof times are the same in both instances.
Rita
There is no difference in the leavening ability or time to proof of instant dried yeast and active dry yeast. They are the exact same organisms, "packaged" in a different way. Instant yeast just hydrates more quickly than active dry and so doesn't need to be proofed in water beforehand, so you can add it directly to flour then add water etc. You can actually do the same thing with ADY if you want, but you have to increase the water temperature to something like 115-119...which will speed up your rising time because of the heat (which is generally a bad thing). If i'm making some type of bread that is supposed to be enjoyed by itself or with butter, then I use cold fermentation, successive builds, all the time consuming stuff. On the other hand, for my 50% whole wheat sandwhich loaves (for sandwhiches, toast, etc) I just want to make the bread with as little mess and fuss as possible, so I direct rise it on the counter in whatever temp my house happens to be. There is definately an advantage to cold fermentation for flavor, but for sandwhich bread I'm willing to sacrifice flavor for ease and practicality. Good luck...
Steve Petrone
TVWBB Diamond Member
I figured there may be more than a few bakers in the crowd. Thanks for the input.
My pizza dough is a delayed , overnight in thr frig dough. I am pleased with it. The whole wheat loaf I've baked is not a retarded fermentation. My plan is to get Reinhart's Apprentice Bakers book.
I was a little surprised to read that he rec. the instant yeast-in the reduced quantities. One of the tv shows said the same....My style has been to mix and bake more by feel than formula. Arrearantly those in the know stick to formulas, by weight, to get repeatable results. So far a feel like a blind squirrel finding nuts. I'll soon be armed with Reinhart's book and soon after a scale. Thanks to all for the help.
My pizza dough is a delayed , overnight in thr frig dough. I am pleased with it. The whole wheat loaf I've baked is not a retarded fermentation. My plan is to get Reinhart's Apprentice Bakers book.
I was a little surprised to read that he rec. the instant yeast-in the reduced quantities. One of the tv shows said the same....My style has been to mix and bake more by feel than formula. Arrearantly those in the know stick to formulas, by weight, to get repeatable results. So far a feel like a blind squirrel finding nuts. I'll soon be armed with Reinhart's book and soon after a scale. Thanks to all for the help.
David Munson
TVWBB Super Fan
Neither. If you want flavor from bread and ease of making, use the no knead technique.
3 cups all-purpose or bread flour, more for dusting, Cornmeal or wheat bran as needed. ¼ teaspoon instant yeast, 1¼ teaspoons salt
1. In a large bowl combine flour, yeast and salt. Add 1 5/8 cups water, and stir until blended; dough will be shaggy and sticky. Cover bowl with plastic wrap. Let dough rest at least 12 hours, preferably about 18, at warm room temperature, about 70 degrees.
2. Dough is ready when its surface is dotted with bubbles. Lightly flour a work surface and place dough on it; sprinkle it with a little more flour and fold it over on itself once or twice. Cover loosely with plastic wrap and let rest about 15 minutes.
3. Using just enough flour to keep dough from sticking to work surface or to your fingers, gently and quickly shape dough into a ball. Generously coat a cotton towel (not terry cloth) with flour, wheat bran or cornmeal; put dough seam side down on towel and dust with more flour, bran or cornmeal. Cover with another cotton towel and let rise for about 2 hours. When it is ready, dough will be more than double in size and will not readily spring back when poked with a finger.
4. At least a half-hour before dough is ready, heat oven to 450 degrees. Put a 6- to 8-quart heavy covered pot (cast iron, enamel, Pyrex or ceramic) in oven as it heats. When dough is ready, carefully remove pot from oven. Slide your hand under towel and turn dough over into pot, seam side up; it may look like a mess, but that is O.K. Shake pan once or twice if dough is unevenly distributed; it will straighten out as it bakes. Cover with lid and bake 30 minutes, then remove lid and bake another 15 to 30 minutes, until loaf is beautifully browned. Cool on a rack.
Look up "no knead" ( like http://aresrocket.com/bread/). The way I do it is mix by hand with a lot of cold water (keeps the dough off your hand). The final folding is with more flour to keep the dough from sticking. Produces excellent results.
3 cups all-purpose or bread flour, more for dusting, Cornmeal or wheat bran as needed. ¼ teaspoon instant yeast, 1¼ teaspoons salt
1. In a large bowl combine flour, yeast and salt. Add 1 5/8 cups water, and stir until blended; dough will be shaggy and sticky. Cover bowl with plastic wrap. Let dough rest at least 12 hours, preferably about 18, at warm room temperature, about 70 degrees.
2. Dough is ready when its surface is dotted with bubbles. Lightly flour a work surface and place dough on it; sprinkle it with a little more flour and fold it over on itself once or twice. Cover loosely with plastic wrap and let rest about 15 minutes.
3. Using just enough flour to keep dough from sticking to work surface or to your fingers, gently and quickly shape dough into a ball. Generously coat a cotton towel (not terry cloth) with flour, wheat bran or cornmeal; put dough seam side down on towel and dust with more flour, bran or cornmeal. Cover with another cotton towel and let rise for about 2 hours. When it is ready, dough will be more than double in size and will not readily spring back when poked with a finger.
4. At least a half-hour before dough is ready, heat oven to 450 degrees. Put a 6- to 8-quart heavy covered pot (cast iron, enamel, Pyrex or ceramic) in oven as it heats. When dough is ready, carefully remove pot from oven. Slide your hand under towel and turn dough over into pot, seam side up; it may look like a mess, but that is O.K. Shake pan once or twice if dough is unevenly distributed; it will straighten out as it bakes. Cover with lid and bake 30 minutes, then remove lid and bake another 15 to 30 minutes, until loaf is beautifully browned. Cool on a rack.
Look up "no knead" ( like http://aresrocket.com/bread/). The way I do it is mix by hand with a lot of cold water (keeps the dough off your hand). The final folding is with more flour to keep the dough from sticking. Produces excellent results.
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