Serious Eats competition chicken


 
Dave from Denver

Dave from Denver

TVWBB Wizard
This article posted recently on the food blog/community Serious Eats. Apparently it's a take on a recipe by Husbands and Hart from the book "Wicked Good BBQ"

http://www.seriouseats.com/rec...-chicken-thighs.html

This article presents a take on the method of removing the skin, scraping it, and re-applying it to each thigh, and the pictures explain the process pretty well.

The concept of using a white rub is interesting. It might make sauce matching a little difficult but in my opinion these flavors look pretty good. They are lacking in heat, though.

You guys have any thoughts on this recipe? I have a team practice coming up and I might give it a shot.
 
Take this with however many grains of salt you choose:

The pic shows good chicken - but not great.

Light rubs can be easily made better than the one in the recipe. (I've done at least a dozen for various teams, which they may or may not have modified to their tastes.) Dry mustard adds nothing - which makes me question the bona fides of the recipe's author. Lemon pepper? Seriously? Citric acid - sour with no flavor. Seriously?

It is not a matter of color matching. Light rubs are used so as not to add much by way of color. The little bit of smoke and, more predominantly, the sauce or glaze, does so. A darker rub combined with smoke combined with a dark sauce/glaze often leads to a too dark finish. Same goes for ribs (and even butt).

The removing-scraping thing is unnecessary. Trim right. Period. Marinating up front with something a bit acidic and/or Jaccarding the skin and/or cooking slowly at the outset, especially with the skin in liquid (including some fat) and/or milking the cook time is sufficient to get the skin to tender, bite-through without all the scraping muckety muck.

Skin side up on margarine. No. Margarine is gross. (Okay, personal opinion, but really.) Skin down. Butter. Or ghee.
 
I also fail to see how it's necessary to turn in a boned, scraped, immaculate chicken thigh nugget. There's something viscerally pleasing about a very good looking bone in thigh, and if the flavor and tenderness are good one can have success with either method.

Your point about using an acidic marinade is well-taken, but the citric acid component was most interesting to me. This could allow one to give some acid seasoning to the chicken itself, as opposed to having the chicken be only sweet/spice and getting acid from the sauce or glaze i.e. vinegar or pineapple juice etc. This could be a case of fancy play syndrome (as we call it in poker) or outhinking myself.

Also, wouldn't the citric acid activate the flavors of the dry mustard in that rub? I'm thinking a mustardy punch under the skin could be great especially if paired with a mustard element to the sauce. Agreed that lemon pepper and margarine are both nasty and I wouldn't use either one.

Thanks for the feedback.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This could allow one to give some acid seasoning to the chicken itself, as opposed to having the chicken be only sweet/spice and getting acid from the sauce or glaze i.e. vinegar or pineapple juice etc. This could be a case of fancy play syndrome (as we call it in poker) or outhinking myself. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think it is fancy play. (Do you follow pro poker? My client here is one of the big international players.) I think it's a good point - and one I share. I think there are better choices, however. Amchur, a favorite of mine, is one (I use it in many lightly colored rubs, among others) as it is sour but with flavor; vinegar powder is another as are powdered white wine, powdered red wine, sherry powder and sumac. Lemon juice powder adds flavor and acidity as well. It, combined with lemon zest powder and white pepper is a better choice for 'lemon pepper' and adds little in the way of color, as typical lemon pepper blends will.

The mustard would be activated by the addition of water. The heat from cooking deactivates it though, and the flavor substantially mutes or vanishes.
 
Thanks for clearing up what happens with dry mustard, I was mistaken as to the dynamic there.

I certainly have spent a fair amount of time following pro poker, but not to the depth that some people do since it's only a hobby of mine and not my livelihood (and I hope it stays that way!). If your client is a tournament player I probably have heard of him. If he's a big cash game player probably not, as for obvious reasons many of those guys labor in relative obscurity. Odds are I would've heard of your client via reputation or via twoplustwo poker forums (where this forum is called the "twoplustwo of grilling").

I've got some citric acid on the way for cheesemaking but I'll look into getting some amchur or sumac powder too. Honestly I've had some success using very traditional flavor profiles on my chicken specifically the Big Time BBQ rub recipe by Ray Lampe, but I think that constantly pushing yourself outside your comfort zone is the best way to improve as a cook (and as a poker player).

Based on today's trip to Restaurant Depot it looks like this practice tomorrow is going to be focused on ribs ($1.05/lb for a case of spares? I had to buy it but they barely fit frozen in my domestic kitchen freezer.) I'll let you know how the experiments with powdered acid seasoning go. Thanks for your advice.
 
My pleasure. Send me an e when you have a minute.

I have nondisclosure agreements with most clients that preclude even mentioning them by name, let alone where they live, etc. The nondisclosure I have with these clients covers everything - except their names. You might know them. Patrik Antonius, Maya Geller and their children. He plays some tournaments (he was 4th place (winning €443,000) at the Monte Carlo Super High Roller 100K yesterday) but not as quite as many as he used to. He plays the big cash games.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Do you follow pro poker? My client here is one of the big international players </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

For some reason, I assumed your clients were body builders. Not sure where I got that idea.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
My pleasure. Send me an e when you have a minute.

I have nondisclosure agreements with most clients that preclude even mentioning them by name, let alone where they live, etc. The nondisclosure I have with these clients covers everything - except their names. You might know them. Patrik Antonius, Maya Geller and their children. He plays some tournaments (he was 4th place (winning €443,000) at the Monte Carlo Super High Roller 100K yesterday) but not as quite as many as he used to. He plays the big cash games. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course I know who Patrik Antonius is, he's one of the few that even my wife recognizes. An astoundingly good looking man in a world of slovenly scoundrels.
 
He is. And Maya is pretty easy on the eyes.

Jerry, perhaps I said something about his training. He is an avid tennis player, works out in the gym at the house, and eats often - and well - as a result. I cook various proteins (lots of chicken, turkey and fish, occasional pork and beef, lots of whole grains for carbs, cooked vegetables and large fresh salads.

They are wonderful people.
 
Hi,

A couple of quick things. I've had the pleasure of cooking against Chris Hart's team and judging when they were cooking. I enjoyed the food they produced and they kicked my butt when I was competing. They know their stuff.

I've been having some luck lately with orange juice powder. It's white, so it won't affect coloring. It has a great flavor, both tart and sweet.

I've also been experimenting with beet powder, but it's been turning the chicken too dark.

Eric
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I've been having some luck lately with orange juice powder. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes. Lemon juice powder is similar - and lime juice powder- but without the sweet. I find there is usually enough sweet going on but YMMV.
 
I compete in the north east and sweet is king up here.

So, you get most of your coloring from a finishing glaze? Color has me the most stumped.

Thanks,

Eric
 
Sweet is king all over. It's the KCBS thing. I can't eat comp Q. (Don't much care for commercial Q either - for almost opposite reasons.) Nor do I compete. I've helped competitors though.

Comp chicken is usually glazed or sauced, mostly the former. Look at your glaze color alone and on a piece of chicken that has been cooked without rub or marinade and only a bit of wood. Then figure it out from there. If the color is already good using a dark rub - or a rub that will become even darker with cooking - is probably not a worthwhile route. If the test piece could use more color one can add it to the rub, fashion a darker glaze, or a little of both.

In other words, start from the visual result you're looking for then work backwards.
 
Many people complain about competition bbq being to sweat for them, but looking at some other contests you can see why it is successful.

One example is the Pepsi Challenge, where Pepsi puts two small cups side by side with Coke and Pepsi and asks people to choose which one they like better. Pepsi usually wins. However researchers found that when larger samples of each were used, Coke would win more often. They concluded that when eating/drinking small quantities, the sweet sensation will usually appeal more to people. However, it gets to be unappetizing when larger portions are consumed.

I think this same research can be carried over to competition bbq, where judges are judging food off that one small portion.
 
Good points.

Most competitors that I know, especially those that have been consistently in the top 10, do not make their comp Q at home for general consumption.
 
I know it's impossible to say why they don't but I figure from my personal experience that part of the reason not to cook comp Q at home is that it's a crapload of work compared to how one might prepare those meats for personal consumption. I certainly don't inject butts or brisket, or hot-tub my chicken parts for a weekend dinner or a BBQ party (unless it's a team practice).

Apropos to this discussion, I tried Mr. Kruger's green peppercorn rib rub this weekend, I think it's awesome but I wouldn't necessarily use it in competition as the piquant green peppercorn flavors might offend some less-adventurous judges. I guess the idea of comp Q is to put it squarely within the "ideal flavors" of 6 random people. Some judges might like spicy or sweet or both, but some other judges might be offended if the flavor profile leans too much in any direction. It's tough to reconcile non-offensive but crowd-pleasing flavors for comp Q with the more complex flavors that connoisseurs like those on this board might enjoy on their own time.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
Good points.

Most competitors that I know, especially those that have been consistently in the top 10, do not make their comp Q at home for general consumption. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You got that right .. takes me about 5-8 mins to prep each chicken thigh ... no way I do that for any cooking unless I'm practicing for a comp.

A few years ago I attended a Chris Lilly Comp Bbq class and he told us at home he just slaps the meat (chicken) on the grill without much prepping.
 
I judged a KCBS contest a couple weeks ago, my first for this year. Five of the six rib entries I tried were over the top sweet, and a judge at another table mentioned that they had the same thing.

It must be doing well somewhere, or people wouldn't be cooking it. I prefer a little sweet, a little heat, but nothing so overpowering that I can't taste the pork.
 
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