al pastor on a grill or rotisserie???


 

adam clyde

TVWBB Pro
OK, a few of us started talking about this a few months ago... trying to figure out the best way to do this: make great al pastor either on a grill or with a rotisserie. Kruger, I think you had some thoughts about it. Any luck?

I'm sitting here visiting my family in southern california and lamenting that I can't find good al pastor where I'm from back East. There's got to be a good way to replicate this as close as possible to what you find in mexico or in various places around the country.

For those who haven't had al pastor... look here for a decent description/photo.

So... how would you do this? The best thing I could come up with is to slice very thinly a few pounds of pork butt, marinate it, then stack stack it tightly and skewer it with a few metal skewers. Then, you'd have to grill it, turning it frequently. You could grill the pineapple separately, then shave both the al pastor and pineapple into a tortilla...

Is there possibly a better way? Maybe using a rotisserie? (if only Weber made a vertical spit/rotisserie)...

Your thoughts and ideas are appreciated...
 
Here's a reply to a similar question posed to Rick Bayless (PBS-Mexico one Plate at a Time):

Tacos al Pastor
Hi Rick, Love your show. I have been going to this little restaurant in Aurora, IL for many years called Taqueria Mexico. If your ever out that way, try and make it a point to stop in! It is truly authentic, and they serve what I believe to be the best tacos al pastor ever, especially on weekends. They also have a shredded beef (carne desembrada) that is fabulous on any taco, burrito, or tostada. My question is, what is the best cut of pork for making pastor, and the best cut of beef for desebrada? Also what is the cooking technique for the desebrada?

Thanks, Jay

Dear Jay:

Tacos al pastor, made the traditional way on a spit (like gyros), is typically a layering of thin-sliced pork leg with red chile marinade (and, occasionally, sliced onion) topped with a whole, peeled pineapple. That layering set up is really hard to achieve at home, so I have never written a recipe for it. Instead, I recommend that people buy thin-cut pork steak (cut from the shoulder of the animal), pound it with a meat tenderizing mallet, then marinate it in red chile adobo (I like to combine ancho and guajillo chiles with garlic, vinegar, oregano, black pepper, cinnamon and cloves). When I'm in a hurry, I simply puree a can of chipotles in the food processor, thin out the mixture with water, then brush it on the pork (you have to like spicy food). I grill the meat, along with red onions and slices of pineapple, chop everything up and serve it with a chipotle-roasted tomatillo salsa. Or, I go out for really good tacos al pastor ... like the ones I had at Rubi's at Maxwell Street market a couple of weeks ago. Now I want to go to Aurora and check out the ones you've found.

By the way, carne deshebrada (shredded beef) is typically made with chuck (it's the juiciest) or flank (most distinct strands) or skirt steak (delicious, but costly). It is gently simmered until tender (put some garlic and salt in the water).
 
Adam--

The most I've done so far is think about it. But because of your post and Mark's and Derek's responses (thanks for those) I'm thinking about it again.

As much as I like Bayless I think he's wimping out with his reply. The adobo sounds good (I'd add bay and would use pineapple vinegar; I'd make onion part of the puree and would likely add a little pasteurized pineapple juice) but just grilling pounded butt steaks and grilling pineapple alongside? I don't think so. The cutting of the butt into steaks and pounding till thinner is a good idea though as it mitigates the problems inherent in trying to cut the steaks very thin at the outset, and enables you to pound thicker but smaller pieces into thin and wide ones.

Though it's possible that whoever dictated the ingredients to the author of the recipe at Derek's link specified chiles de arbol it's not likely--they're common in table salsas, not in marinades or cooking sauces--but the cascabel addition is a good one. I'd forgo the recado though (the seasoned achiote paste addition) and if I added orange juice it would be sour o.j., not sweet. Even with the vinegar I think one runs the risk of cloying with pineapple and sweet orange. No matter--these details can be dealt with after procedural issues are clarified and one decides the best course of action and after trying it once or twice and figuring out flavors.

Though the large chunks of pork and pineapple look appealing I'm inclined to trying a different approach. I'd really like to be able to shave off the spit (or whatever) little pieces of pork and pineapple, not simply cut it into chunks post cook.

Two scenarios I can see trying:

First, make the adobo then slice a butt into thin steaks and pound thinner; marinate a couple-several hours. Remove the top, bottom, peel and eyes from a ripe pineapple and cut in half crosswise. Do not core. Starting from the wider center of one of the halves, cut one half in 3/8-1/2" slices being careful to keep the slices whole. Cut the other half into thinner slices--as thin as possible but try to keep whole.

Remove the meat from the marinade. Boil the marinade till it reduces to a thick glaze.


Scenario 1 (not rotissed): I think stacks on the small side would be best--easier to manage and easier at finish to slice/shave. I'd start with one of the thicker pineapple slices for the bottom, stack in the meat interspersing one or two of the thin slices of pineapple, and finishing with a top thick slice. I'm thinking about a 3.5-4" stach. I'd use a flat skewer through the hard core of the top pineapple and straight down through the meat and thin pineapple into and through the hard core of the bottom pineapple slice to hold all together. Then I'd repeat to make other stacks. What I am not sure of is whether I'd trim the stacks flush. I'd probably trim one to test.

These stacks I would cook down the center line of a kettle, coal on the sides, and I'd rotate/flip periodically. I'm thinking moderate heat but I kind of need to be there, as it were, to see. I'd baste with the reduced adobo starting halfway through cooking till the end. It would be necessary to either raise the heat at some point toward the end or cheat the stacks closer to the coals to get good caramelization of the heat had diminished (be careful of burning though).

I think (got to be there) I'd probably slice sort of wedges for serving on individual tortillas (putting the stack on the board and cutting kind of like a pie--except avoiding the hard pineapple cores--so that each slice (actually a stack of meat and pineapple) contains softer interior meat/fruit and crispier/caramelized exterior meat/fruit. Or, I'd just run a knife over the stack a few times, avoiding the cores, and toss the meat/pineapple crispier/caramelized all together in a bowl for serving.

Scenario 2 (rotissed): I'd stack the same way and probably do 3 stacks (or 4 smaller) and skewer together, leaving a space in between each stack. (For an EZ Que basket I'd skewer as I did for the gyro test.) I'd baste as above and would cheat the coals baskets closer together toward the end for caramelization purposes.


I think I will be home the night of the 3rd and likely by myself on the 4th. If I can get this together I'll give it a shot. I have thought about it frequently. If not, I will when I can. I doubt I will have time to make fresh masa tortillas but will probably be able to do masa harina ones--betterr, yet, than store-bought machine-made ones.

Remember, any who might try, the enzymes in pineapple juice will turn the meat mushy during marinating unless the juice is pasteurized. Use that, or puree some fresh pineapple and bring it to a simmer. As soon as it hits a simmer the enzymes are deactivated and the puree can be used in the marinade.
 
I ended up playing with this and the results were quite good. No doubt it will be something I do often.

I did not have time to try the rotis approach nor, alas, to make fresh tortillas. I made a simple adobo of pureed reconstituted toasted extra-hot NM peppers, guajillos and anchos (2 each), garlic, onion, pineapple vin, pineapple juice, cinnamon, marjoram, black pepper, salt and clove. I made the adobo thin--much thinner than one normally would--because a typical adobo would end up getting pasty in between the pieces of stacked meat where there was no exposure to direct heat and airflow. I decided to slice at ~3/8" and pound, but decided not to pound all that thinly, but I did pound. I went the route of the stacks I mentioned above--made three--and I also skewered some large chunks of pork as well (like the pic in the barbecuebible link) to compare.

After making the stacks I reduced the adobo to thicken it and painted the stacks once toward the end of cooking. I did not flip or rotate the stacks at all. I did turn--once--the skewer of large chunks.

I used my kettle with a slow mini-MM start-up. I let the heat go where it wanted: it ended up settling ~350. I did not time the cook (I will next time--I was multi-tasking ranch stuff and swilling limoncello and water with lime on the rocks (very tasty and refreshing!) but it was just a couple hours tops.

The hard pineapple core (helpful in skewering) cooked nicely enough that it could be included in the taco (imo, anyway). The stacks worked as I'd hoped. By cutting into wedges I was able to include caramelized exterior meat and fruit and interior meat and fruit for each taco I made (I made 2 at a time so the meat would stay hot; one pork/pineapple stack made 6). I would grill a tortilla while I cut a wedge, flip the tortilla, run the knife over the wedge once, then grab the tortilla and scrape the meat and fruit onto it. A topping of fresh cilantro, chopped Vidalia, serrano salsa and a squeeze of lime and the taco was ready to eat.

One could also run a knife over a stack (or all three stacks) and put the filling in a warm bowl for serving at table with a towel-wrapped stack of hot, grilled tortillas ready to go but the stand-and-eat-at-the-kitchen-island worked best for last night.

The skewered large chunks of meat and pineapple were good but maybe not as good as the stacks. I'm not sure of this, really, and would have to try it again. They were certainly good enough though, requiring only a knifing for serving but the stacks seemed to be pineapple-ier. A bonus to the stacks is visual--they just look really cool and are easy to make. Placed on to a platter or cutting board and garnished with plenty of lime wedges (with the topping and salsas already to go) they would be striking set on the table for an informal party. They could be quickly gone over with a knife right at the table--less than a minute--and each could serve him/herself right from the platter.

I have two stacks left. If I can borrow my neighbor's camera I'll post a pic of how the stacks look now so you can see what I mean.
 
wow... so sorry I've been away from this post so long!!!

Kevin - that is awesome. By the way, I agree that bayless' solution was a bit weak... the point of al pastor is having it roasted together, not grilled carne asada style.

So, on the kettle, you are grilling this stack vertically, then? So the pineapple has the chance to run down the side? Not sure why I didn't think of that...

It sounds like the stacks of thin pounded bits was better than the chunks? That makes sense... at least it is more like traditional al pastor.

Also, noticed some Masa Harina in the picture... looks like you got some fresh tortillas the second time you did it. nothing like fresh tortillas...

So how high do you think you should make the stacks... I'm thinking maybe 6 inches would be a good amount... how much meat is that? probably 2 pounds or so?

also, how long did you marinate it in the adobo?

And... last... did you just take it off when it was nice and caramelized? Or did you take the temperature? What temp do you think the center was? Even though it is butt, probably best not to take it all the way to the high 190s... maybe 170-ish? it's shaved pretty small, so prob not a big diff...

Anyhow, great, great post. Thanks! Looking forward to trying this when I get back home to the East Coast...
 
Yes, the stack went on the grill just as it looks in the pic--there were three of them plus the skewer of chunks. The one in the pic was about 3-3.5" high, the other two a bit higher. The 3-4" height is one I would do again as it was easy to skewer without falling over and easy to move. There is a 3/8" slice of pineapple on the top and bottom of each stack and one thin (< 1/4") slice in the middle. I used double skewers and, when the stacks went on the grill, shoved the skewers down through the grate so that the lid would go on okay. I decided not to bother flipping or rotating the stacks.

The stacks were better than the chunks. Cut a wedge, run a knife over it once, it's ready. Nice mix of pineapple and pork (more pineapple than traditonal but I like more pineapple). A 6" stack would probably around 2 lbs or slightly under, before cooking. I'd recommend smaller stacks though for manageability but not a major issue.

Fresh masa harina tortillas are better than store bought and fresh masa tortillas are best of all!

I marinated about 3 hours. I would normally go longer--it was a time thing.

I did shove a therm into a stack to see what the temp was after they'd been on a while and caramelized a bit: 160. I let them go another 40 min or so and pulled.

A stack, wrapped in foil, reheats well and easily in the oven.

I heated a leftover stack and made tostadas tonight. Can't see a lot here but this is two tortillas lightly fried for texture (but not to the hard and crisp stage) then queso goes in between and this is allowed to melt in the oven for a few minutes. Then it was topped with the chopped reheated pork/pineapple, shredded cabbage, chopped ripe tomato, and chopped peach. Pic.

I'm working on my plantain crust for empanadas. I made an opener of queso stuffed plantain dough and served it with chunky tom-avo-onion-hab salsa. Not the clearest pic but it's here. The dough is getting closer to what I want.
 
Kevin,
It seems to me that you are quite the authority on using mexican chiles and in this post you stated that you were going to be making this more since you enjoyed the flavor.

Reviewing the dates of this post, have you come up any new methods or marinades which you like better? Could you post your recipe in a traditional manner?

I love your use of chiles/spices and just from reading your various posts, you are the only person who consistently uses dried Mexican peppers and spices.
 
Chris--

No, I haven't come up with anything I really like better but I have adjusted a few things. I do suggest marinating 6-8 hours or so and i do prefer the stacks rather than the chunks.

2 hot dried NM chiles

1 ancho chile (you can vary the chilies)

2-3 cloves garlic, pressed or minced

.25 c minced onion

2 T pineapple vinegar (or use cider vin)

4 T pineapple juice (do not use fresh juice)

1 t minced fresh marjoram leaves or 1/2 t dried

.25 t cinnamon

pinch ground clove

salt and pepper to taste

Reconstitute the peppers in hot or boiling water till soft. Puree with a little of the soaking water till smooth. Add the rest of the ingredients and puree again. Taste and add a little salt and pepper (don't go nuts with the salt, more added later). Force through a sieve. Thin with more soaking water (if not too bitter), plain water or a little chicken stock. Marinate the sliced, pounded pork.

After marinating, remove the meat, reserving the marinade. Heat a little olive oil in a saute pan till hot then fry the marinade till it thickens, stirring in 1/2 t of Mex oregano and a pinch of ground cumin.
 
As expected, these were delicious. Used OJ instead of pineapple juice (because I did not have any nor could find it) and cider vinegar for the same reason. 2 NM peppers, 2 guajillos and one morita (great smoky smell). Many thanks yet again to Kevin!
Tacos al Pastor
 
Just followed kevin's marinade and technique above, never had this before and the family loved it. I made fresh tortillas from scratch as well as a salsa verde. I had to use mild dry chillies for the kids, next time i am turning up the heat.

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IMG_3932.jpg
 
temps were all over the place due to high winds and lack of fuel

I started them off at 300 and as the fuel started to burn down i droped to 250 for most of the cook, i then added some fuel and got them back up to 300 and pulled after about 3.5 hours. Some of the upper pieces hit higher temps than the lower but all the pieces were cooked between 160-180 degrees. Everything was very flavorfull and moist. I will definately be doing this again. The butt was marinated for 24+ hours and ended up soaking most of the marinade so their was not a lot left over to baste with.
 

 

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