Moosemeat

Am trying something new. Am fixing to do a moose roast in a cast iron Dutch oven within the WSM, and have some dinner guests, some of wife Mary's friends, over for the experiment. I have the logistics figured, I think, but can use some advice or direction. Not making trial runs here. Time is short, moose is thawing. Going for the gusto.

Will first flour, salt and pepper this room temp roast (about 4 lbs), then take as much time as necessary to brown it in an iron skillet. Will use about three tbs. of bacon fat for this.

I have a larding needle, and I could lace the roast with some pork fat with a sliver of garlic in each lardoon, but have sworn to myself not to do this. Moose is even leaner and more spectacularly clean to the appearance and the palate than elk or venison. I feel guilty enough browning it in bacon drippings. Angus Cameron, who wrote the "LL Bean Game & Fish Cookbook" insists that barding is one of four inviolable principles with game roasts, but I don't want mine tasting like a cross between pork and beef, and I've done enough stews, roasts and round steaks in the crock pot to know game can be cooked slow to a tender goodness without becoming dry.

Indeed, the whole purpose of this experiment is that I want to find a way to cook large game roasts in their pristine goodness, without fat, only I want to use the WSM so I don't have to fool around reducing hardwood fires to cooking embers, or trading out charcoal briquets for 8 or so hours. Also, I want to control the temp, to keep it below boiling, and I would like to add a little smoke flavor to the stew. All of these things the WSM can deliver ? I think. At any rate, this roast is too large for any crock pot I have ever seen. Our big one is 6.5 quts. Just don't want to do it in the kitchen oven, either.

I digress. After browning roast, will deglaze with cup of something resembling pinot noir, add a little more of same and reduce somewhat.

Plan then to add the roast and the reduced wine, place a few bay leaves,some peppercorns, onions (maybe leeks instead), carrots, parsnips, etc., around the sides of the Dutch oven, cover and cook around 200 degrees for 8 hours or so.

Flour on roast should thicken gravy slightly, and the cooking will remove the flour taste.

Root crops at this temp cook at about the same rate as the meat, and the oven I will be using is large enough to swim laps around. I will be cooking below boiling point, at around 200? F for most of the cook. Dutch oven is three-legged, 12 qt, and a sufficient heat sink, I would think, that I can stand it in the water pan sans sand.

At end of cook, will remove lid, open vents of WSM to increase cooking temp and continue for another half hour or so, reducing liquid and finishing off roast in the process while introducing some wood flavor from the cherry and oak hardwood I will have laced through the charcoal for flavor, perhaps an hour prior. (May add some morels then, too, if I can find more between now and the cook.) If gravy is not thick enough, I will remove vegetables and meat to warming dish and whisk in sufficient quantity of modest butter and flour roux, which I keep prepared and refrigerated.

Will serve a little morel mushroom soup beforehand. Made some yesterday evening. Tried to follow a recipe. Actually, tried to combine the more manageable portions of several, but screwed up when some of the principles were at cross purposes. Still came out pretty good. Hard to mess something up when the ingredients are white wine, cream, onions, celery, two pounds of morels and a quarter pound of butter. Still, who knows how good it might have been? Perhaps I should serve it after dinner, in case there's a need to cover up the memory of moose.

So, whaddya think? Is this gonna work? Am I going to discover a delicious way to cook game roasts and stew meat? Do you see any pitfalls or danger signs in this plan? Do you have any advice? It is all welcome.

If this works, I may post a few digital photos. If it's a colossal flop, you will never hear from me again.

Hey, I know there are some accomplished, experienced and insightful participants on this forum. Am I winging this alone? Has anybody done anything close enough to this to offer some counsel? Wednesday morning I fire up the Weber. Only one day left for revisions to the schedule.

Dean....

You are probanbly the only one on this board that has ever tried cooking a moose roast, low and slow, in a DO on the WSM!! And you want advice from us?? LOL Just kidding!

I think it should work......one issue you will have is how long will the DO take to get heated. At low temps it may be quite a while which may throw your timing off a bit. Perhaps pre-heat it with some other fuel source?

Also, watch that water pan!! All that weight may be too much....they barely fit on those hooks as it is...one little mis-step and your dinner is in the ashes. Just something to be extra careful with.

This year, one of my camping goals is to use my DO's for extended cooks...more than a couple of hours. As you mentioned, swapping out coals for 8 hours is a pain. I will be experimenting with placing unlit coals next to the lit coals..ala Jim Minion's method...and see how that works. I thought about using the WSM as you are, but I don't want to drag that thing around.

I also bought a new DO cooking table at Cabela's. It brings the cooking surface up higher so no bending over to cook. Can't wait to try that out this weekend!

Good luck, Dean, and let us know what happens.

That's a relief, Kevin. I was beginning to suspect that everyone was praying for a train wreck so I would keep my promise and never post again.

Yeah, you're right to have second thoughts about the weight in the water pan. I'd considered it dimly, and even thought about contriving some brace to span the upper brackets so I could hang the oven, but my brain couldn't negotiate a way to lift the oven lid in such a situation, so I gave it up.

Nothing wrong with a test, I sez to myself, so a few minutes ago I placed the oven, lid off, in an empty pan within the WSM, laid a pan 3/4 full of sand on top of it, placed the oven lid on the sand and then jumped around on the assembly a bit to see if it held. No problemo. I must confess that the appearance of just the oven with the lid on inside the Weber looks very appealing. It is just the right size, and looks to get good circulation of heat all around it. It's a natural, I think, and if this works, I'll be able in the future to routinely cook a complete, savory dinner for many people with very little effort.

To the second point, if I treat the empty Dutch oven like so much sand in the pan, and preheat the cooker with the oven in place to, say, 240-250, then when I introduce meat and vegetables I figure to be in the neighborhood. To help with this plan, I purchased one of those little specialty item long-distance tong do-hickeys so I can fetch the lid up out of the smoker.

I just like the title of the thread, "Moosemeat Advice, Please". One of the all-time best titles, in my opinion. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Seriously, don't take the silence the wrong way. I don't have any experience with Dutch ovens, much less moose, so I'm useless in this discussion! I'll enjoy reading about how it turns out, though.

Regards,
Chris

Yo Dean,

Pictures say a thousand words, dude. When you do this make sure you have a digital camera around so you can post some pics. I, for one, would be most interested in seeing how it turns out.

Good Luck
--------------------------
Mark WAR EAGLE!!

Did another test. Fired up WSM to see how it would fare with the oven inside. Oven weighs 21 lbs, so it functions as a considerable heat sink. Ran WSM at around 220 for a while, as measured with bimetal therm. to the center through a top bracket bolt hole, oven empty. Also lowered a Polder probe onto the lid of the oven to distinguish differences between WSM temp and Dutch oven temp. No real difference once the oven got up to temperature. Took a little less than an hour. Wish there were a way to monitor the inside temp, but can't without cracking the lid open and allowing moisture to escape.

Temp started to climb thereafter, so I added a gallon of tap water of indeterminate temp., simulating the introduction of foodstuffs. Forty-five min. later water was at 100 F and 75 minutes later it was at 160 F. The lid temp with the Polder probe laying on it also stabilized to about 8 degrees below the WSM temp, riding right at 112. An hour later, the temp had spiked to 240, even with the vents closed. Water temp was at 190. That's when it occurred to me that I could also regulate temp with the dome vents, because nothing but the outside of the oven could creosote. This made me more comfortable with the question of temp management, and I jetissoned the possibility of placing the oven upon a sand bed to further contribute to heat management. Closed dome vents half way, and an hour later, with WSM riding at 220, water temp was at 200. Heartening.

I learned that I won't have to worry about too slow a heat-up schedule. Reached the 140 mark in the water soon enough that microorganisms won't be an issue. I had to close the vents down almost all the way to run low. Also decided to change the schedule a bit to take advantage of natural occurences. Decided that while I am browning the meat and while the WSM is coming up to temp, I will place an additional two cups of wine in the uncovered Dutch oven and let it reduce and absorb smoke flavor. Thataway it can influence the roast and vegetables throughout the cook, and I won't have to uncover the roast for any length of time. If I have to, I plan to baste it with pot juices. Will only use enough wine in skillet to deglaze.

After about an hour of allowing the two cups of wine to reduce in the Dutch oven, by a third I hope (which is when the temp started to climb on my trial run), I will add the root vegetables, bay leaf, some oregano and dill, etc., and the meat and deglazed pan stuff, cover and try to ride the WSM through the rest of the schedule.

This holds much promise for cooking game, I think. Just a matter of making enough mistakes in subsequent efforts to zero in on the correct process and schedule.

So far, so good. Reserved blood and dried off rolled butt roast with paper towels. Browned it in iron skillet in about 1.5 tbs. lard, deglazed and reduced by half with 1 cup pinot noir, all the while Dutch oven is in a 250 environment, lid off, reducing 2 cups of wine. Browning required 20 minutes. Done evenly on piece of meat without a speck of fat on it. After deglazed skillet cooled a bit, I added reserved blood.

Wine stayed in the unlidded DO inside the Weber cooker for 1 hour in the meantime, reduced to about 1/2 and, am hopeful, absorbed some smokewood flavor. Added browned roast, parsnips, carrots, onions, rosemary, thyme, 12 pepper corns, 2 small bay leaves, kosher salt and closed her up. Ambient temp of cooker was 250 plus. Shut back vents to run now for 6 hours, at which time I plan to peek. Stuck dial thermometer into roast. Dunno for what purpose.

Notes: 1. Went to town this morning and bought some lard. Much better for browning than bacon fat, which must be heated slower because it will burn at a lower temp and threaten to ruin the flavor. 2. Was also careful to reduce wine sufficiently so that the alcohol is gone. Pouring wine straight from the bottle into the DO will imbue the ingredients with the taste of alcohol which subsequent cooking cannot remove. 3. Changed herbs, going less for Mediterranean taste, and more for flavors that work really well with game. 4. Simmered through the night some parsley, carrots, onions and the bones, skin and scraps from a chicken I'd smoked in the freezer/smoker. Drained this morning. Have contingency plans to add a 1/2 cup or so of this broth to the gravy if the broth from the DO is not sufficiently woodsy. 5. Did not flour roast prior to browning. Will rely on roux at the end of the cook to bring gravy home. 6. Nothing beats a seasoned iron skillet for browning meat and leaving good stuff behind in the pan.

Dinner guests canceled. Invited my bow-hunting buddy Lew and his wife in their stead. He killed the moose, after all. We are both going moose hunting this Sept to the same locale (Newfoundland). He's killed two there in the last two years. If I topple one, that's 400 lbs of boned moosemeat, enough for me to pass out 1/2 lb. to each registered VWBB member and have just enough left over that I won't have to buy another freezer chest. There's no such intention behind the thought, nothing beyond the pleasant possibility that I may require more freezer space come Fall.

Uncovered at the 6 hour mark and found a use for the dial thermometer stuck in the roast. It registered 190. Yikes. Meal done. Quickly finger-sampled root vegetables. Perfect consistency, not too soft, not too hard, and of very good flavor, though a little heavy with wine.

Brought DO in, poured off broth and thickened it with roux. Should probably have strained it. Reason? Pourous clots of blood laced throughout. Informed my friend Jan Adkins of my plans mid-afternoon. He knows something about cooking. Advised me against reserving and using blood, which seemed like a good idea to me at the time. His words: "You don't want to add blood to the juices, next time. Blood is tricky stuff, good to thicken some sauces but not universally. It must be used with caution and is the stuff you try to skim off most of the time." I guess I didn't use caution, and I certainly didn't skim or strain it either. Oh, well, it's all good the first time. No more blood in future such cooks.

For the smoked chicken broth back-up plan, he wrote: "Don't use it. Use plain, unsophisticated chicken stock. The broth should add a mild richness rather than a strong flavor. That's why you use chicken or veal stock."

Like I said, this may require a few more mistakes.

Gravy didn't require more broth than was in the oven. Ended up with three cups or more of liquid, of which over half sweated out of the vegetables. Plenty sufficient.

All in all, meal was excellent. Moose was not dry, but was fork tender and quite flavorful. Vegetables were timed correctly to coincide with doneness of meat. They kept their own identity.

The flavor was good, but a bit too bold with the wine. 1.5 cups to deglaze would be sufficient, I think, and a can of chicken broth for the balance. May give up notion of folding in smokewood flavors at the early stages. None of us was quite certain we could discern the smokewood, though the wine may have overpowered it.

My WSM runs steadily around 240 with minor regulation. Meal cooked faster than I wanted it to. WSM hovered in the 240 area for over an hour after I assembled the cook. Seems tuned for it. Was a struggle with lower temps, trying to keep around 220 and below. Temp either seemed to be slowly declining or slowly rising. Had a spike at the four hour mark, while I was mowing grass. Some of the temp management problem results from a unit too slow to respond to adjustments with that much iron and food in its belly, but more of the problem rests with the operator, who has to be more aggressive about choking down the vents next time.

I have some photos to post later. Not the best of the food, but it's hard to hold up dinner guests for the purpose of posing parsnips. Going turkey hunting early tomorrow morning, so won't post pictures soon unless it rains.

Hope you enjoyed wading through this adventure and will try something similar soon of your own creation, working your own variations and increasing the knowledge base.

Moosemeat is typically the leanest of all the game meats I've eaten. I've had maybe 10 pkgs. of Lew's last moose, and there probably hasn't totaled a tablespoon of fat from all of it. This is the least desirable piece I've yet encountered, a rolled heel of round, tough, sinewy and chock full of gristle separating small muscle bundles. Nevertheless, the Dutch oven, which functions as part crock pot, part pressure cooker, did a number on it.

No question that it would have profited from a lacing with the larding needle to moisten it further, and eventually I will employ one, but nothing to apologize for this approach, or the results. (Not to mislead anyone, but moosemeat is really quite tender when you move to the better cuts, and it is milder even than elk or red deer. I'd grade it as the best of all wild ungulate meat I have eaten.) Eventually I will also use the needle to lard a roast placed upon the grill and cooked in more orthodox WSM fashion, just to know. Otherwise, I don't see how you can barbecue game meat "in the open" regardless of how you marinate or baste it.

You can see the gristle in the uncooked roast, first photo. Second photo shows browned meat ready to combine with vegetables and seasonings.

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http://www.bowyersedge.com/images/Posts/browned-17.jpg

Tools worth mentioning. Tongs are unnecessary, really. A good pair of welder's gloves is plenty sufficient to the task of lid removal.

The reamer shown in the second photo works well for enlarging the bracket hole so the thermometer stem can travel it easily. The porcelain hole is oversize, but the bracket hole constricts a 1/4" diameter thermometer stem. Reamer will work on a porcelain hole as well, if need be, with no risk of chipping or flaking off the finish.

Third photo shows covered oven in place during a trial run. Plenty of room for good heat circulation, as you can see.

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Browned roast surrounded by vegetables, herbs and seasonings, etc., ready for the oven lid and then the cooker's domed lid.

http://www.bowyersedge.com/images/Posts/ready-19.jpg

Time to eat. Meat was textured nicely, firm enough to carve, tender to the fork. Adjusted seasonings per individual plate. Gravy is a must, and important enough to this drier meat that it should be made at the end so that it's flavor and consistency will be just right, rather than by adding cornstarch or flour at the beginning of the cook and depending on chance for the right mixture.

Had no dessert prepared, and due to rush of shortened cooking cycle, no salad. Forgot all about the mushroom soup, too. We stuffed ourselves anyway, and relaxed over a pressed Columbian coffee and biscotti afterwards. Besides, my buddy Lew is content to live on instant oatmeal and ramen noodles and jerky for a week or two at a time without complaint?it may require that he's hunting in the bush, though. Excellent meal by any count, and the next one will be better. I want to try this with onions, sweet peppers and home-canned tomatoes?one of my favorite recipes for game?to see if the Dutch oven can take the tomato acid and keep its coating.

A few additional notes:

Not that it mattered much, but I used wild cherry and white oak for smokewood from the start. Used the Minion method with only 12 briquets in the chimney. Still would like a process that introduces smoke flavor with some certainty, but that may be impossible with meat this susceptible to drying out. Need to think about this more, and of course am open to suggestions.

I had fun.

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http://www.bowyersedge.com/images/Posts/serving-23.jpg

Hey Dean - I don't quite know what to say - as I'm overwhelmed with the detail of your messages...but I'll try my best.

I don't quite understand the rationale of browning the meat before placing it into the smoker. I'd think that searing the meat would prevent smoke flavor from entering. (?) Or is the theory that the liquids and veggies in the oven will continue to be flavored with the smoke, a la baked beans?

I live here up in Mooseland (Maine) - look forward to smoking some Moose myself soon.

It's plain and simplistic, but the best way I've cooked it without smoking (steaks, anyways) is with a 50/50 blend of butter/olive oil in a cast iron skillet. Salt/Pepper. Toss some shallots over it and its done.

Anyhoo, your method did get me thinking... thanks.

David, sorry about the thread. Didn't know it was going to get that tangled when I started. Began as a simple, earnest plea for direction.

As to your question, browning does not put an impervious coating on meat, but adds a flavor to it. While it's true that meat should not have smoke flavor added after it is cooked because it can get oily and nasty, browning does not keep it from absorbing flavors and this meat was not subsequently subjected to smoke. The wine reduction and the vegetables infused it with their flavors just as certainly as they took on flavor from the meat.

Browning adds a flavor to the meat and to the dish not otherwise obtainable, a highly desirable one to most palates. Not dissimilar to comparing boiled steaks to pan seared steaks. Baking raw red meat in a moist lidded environment otherwise makes it too much resemble boiled meat.

Can't argue with your preferred way of cooking moose steaks, either. It's mine, too. You can check out an article I wrote on game, iron skillets and their maintenance on my website: http://www.bowyersedge.com/venison.html

However, heel of round is not steak. It's as gnarly as it sounds, one of the toughest cuts on a beast. Butchers who grind burger fear it. Those with animosities toward hunters roll it into roasts, tie it with innocent-looking cotton string and tuck it amongst the pkgs. of backstraps and tenderloins. If your goal is something digestible, no way I know to get there but low and slow and lidded.

Hey, I gave up trying to draw a non-res Maine moose tag ten years ago. Better chance with the Ohio Lotto, I think. Can you sneak me in?
/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Thanks for the info.

I'd love to help you out on the permit, but I don't hunt myself... instead, I just treat my hunter friends real nice and usually have lots of Moose Meat and Venison in the freezer.

The article was real interesting. Thanks for the info.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Burke:
[qb]
... instead, I just treat my hunter friends real nice and usually have lots of Moose Meat and Venison in the freezer.

[/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Must explain why you haven't encountered a rolled heel of round. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Looking back over my shoulder, it's as though I abducted the VWBB and took it on a high speed chase through city traffic.

Chris, if you'd like, I'm happy to reduce this to the size and style of a recipe and move it to the Recipes forum.

It's a bit overwhelming in its current form. More folks might read it if it were shortened. Feel free to update as you have time, and when you're finished I can delete any of the posts that are no longer needed and move it to the Moose Forum...er, I mean Recipes Forum. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Regards,
Chris

Hey, Dean. Just wanted to say that I enjoyed participating in your moose adventure. I was actually looking at the forum more frequently (didn't think that was possible) waiting for your next update post. Gave me some good ideas for playing with my new 7qt DO.

Appreciate the play by play. The techniques are transferrable to other recipes!

Rich G.

Rich, glad to hear you weren't a casualty along the chase route.

I agree that the techniques are transferrable to other recipes, and the process applicable to domestic meat as well. I would not try a wine reduction in the oven the next time, but most of the other stuff should work fine. Maybe Kevin will lay some recipes on us.

I've condensed my posts to an essential account of the process and the logic behind it. Sent the results to Chris and recommended that he remove this thread and substitute the Reader's Digest version.

any suggestions for finished temperature of a venison neck roast done on the WSM?

Dean, thanks for the play by play. The entertainment is in the story telling. There are many recipes and many cookbooks but just one Dean weaving an interesting tale.

talking about coming to the party late... 4 years later... 6 years from original post... I enjoyed the journey. I didn't get any roasts with my venison this year and don't have access to moose just yet... maybe someday, but am inspired by this to try some new things.

I concur that there is no replacement for the flavor gained in browning red meat in an iron skillet prior to roasting. Unparalleled flavor.

Downside of linked photos... was disappointed not to be able to see photos or article... dead links