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Anthony W.

TVWBB Fan
I just read in a very good grill book called
GRILL IT! that they NEVER have the lid on for direct cooking as when fat hits the heat it gives off some unwanted acrid smoke and gets on your food All the big BBQ joints I have seen never have a cover so they might be right, just not sure as Weber always pushes for the lid, GRILL IT says the lid should be used for indirect and BBQ only..


All you gurus, chime in..

Anthony
 
I see your confusion, however, the authors' claims are utterly without merit. They don't make sense from either of the two most germane perspectives, flavor or health. Let me count the ways:

First, from a flavor perspective, were this the case, the thousands of us who use a lid when grilling would be turning out bitter-tasting food. We're not.

Putting aside a tangential discussion of smoke and acridity, it is flare-ups caused by dripping fats that are more likely to cause bitterness because flames can cause charring and charring often means bitterness. Fats and juices that drip onto lit fuel that sizzle instead of flame are less likely to cause an 'acrid' note to the flavor profile in the short term; over time, dripping foods cooked direct can sometimes take on bitter notes but it depends on a) the food item, b) what the drippings contain other than fats and juices (like marinades), c) proximity to the fuel, d) time.

Use of a lid mitigates or negates the possibility of flare-ups when food is cooked direct. Cooking direct without a lid means either paying careful attention and moving around foods to prevent excessive time in the flames should flare-ups occur; or keeping a water spray bottle handy to dampen flare-ups as they occur.

[Sidebar: BBQ joints that actually barbecue on grills over direct heat are a small minority. But they--like their counterparts, burger joints and steakhouses and open-grill restaurants that grill direct--have someone constantly attending the foods and the grills. Many (in the case of Q joints) cook at some distance above the lit; others (burger and steak joints, open-grill restaurants) cook more closely to the heat but employ movement to various heat zones on the grills to cook their foods effectively and to avoid flare-ups. They are usually cooking many things at once as well so a lid isn't practical. With the attention necessary, nor is it required.]

Second, from a health perspective, there has been much talk of grilled foods being 'bad' to consume. This is because of the PAHs (polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons), classified by the EPA as cancer-causing agents, that we are exposed to through breathing air contaminated by wild fire or coal, or by eating foods that have been grilled, especially foods that are grilled directly and especially those that are charred. Since charring more readily occurs during flare-ups and since flare-ups more readily occur when foods are grilled directly without a lid, a lid seems prudent at the very least.
 
Its hard to beleive that chef/restaurateur Chris Schlesinger and culinary journalist (`Gourmet magazine executive editor) John Willoughby the authors of the book and other
very popular BBQ books such as Thrill of the Grill and Licence to Grill are without merit.

I usually grill non fatty meats such as chicken
filet mignon and fish so when I get a chance I
grill without the lid, when you fry a steak
indoors do you put a cover on the pan? I don't
think so, but you can. Personally I would not.


Anthony
 
Hi, My name is Bryan and I'm a grill lid user.
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EDIT: I use the lid on both gas and charcoal grills.
 
You may not use a lid when cooking in a pan indoors but you also would not have to worry about temperature spikes from the additional airflow into the charcoal.

The majority of books I have read use a lid with charcoal grills and no lid without.

Clark
 
I will try the next time I'm grilling something
under 20 minutes, of course I will not be using
anything with too much fat and not build a raging fire..the best chicken I have is in the
Portugese BBQ joints but I did notice that
the grill is far from the coals and it take 40
minutes to cook so for that I would need to
go indirect with the lid on...

Anthony
 
I grill without. Unless it's indirect. Then of course the lid is necessary.

But I think good food can be had either way. I remember a "grilling expert" also mentioning that you should not use a lid, because then it becomes like an oven,instead of the direct heat. This was years ago, I just found it interesting.

When you see the Weber Restaurant in Chicago I think it's all without the lid I believe. They have no choice obviously. It's hard to cook with a lid during bbqs with different foods and different times ("throw some chicken on for me") etc. You're moving stuff around too much.
 
i do with and without depending on what i'm trying to accomplish. really also depends on the cooker being used. on my kettle i'll usually use the lid. the point is to prevent flames thus preventing the junk getting on the food. i really see no reason to state an absolute like they did.
 
I do and I don't depending on length of cook, thickness and type of food. I'll use the lid to control the flares, and also to provide more even cooking while the food is on direct. I often cook through or finish indirect, then the lid is on. I also will close the lid awhile while the chips are on and smoking.
 
Anthony
This is another one of "those" subjects that can have all the experts arguing tooth and nail. It is like which is best Charcoal or Gas.
It all comes down to personal taste.
When you read the post from Kevin who is without a doubt one of the most knowledgeable chefs around, you get an insight into the why many of us grill with the lid on and from others who like to grill with the lid off.

I would like to give you a challenge – select 3 cuts of meat that you usually grill and grill them with the lid off and the lid on keeping in mind that with the lid on the cooking time is about 30% quicker on average. You may have to do this a couple of times to get the timing right. Do a blind tasting test with a few of your friends and see what the consensus is on them. You should judge on tenderness, moistness appearance and taste. Do not ask which they thought was grilled on an open grill.
You may be surprised at the results.

I was an open grill griller for many years and changed because I could not believe the difference that I achieved by grilling with the lid on/down. (Charcoal/Gas)
Here in Australia many Chefs grill a steak on an open grill but will place a lid over the steak to start to cook the top as they are grilling the bottom. There can be a significant difference.

I always look upon the books as merely guidance and an expression of experience, which provides one with a basic knowledge on which to build on.

Regards
 
On a reverse sear for steaks I definitely cook with the lid off. I don't want to overcook the meat, and temp and time are important. I want to sear as much as possible without making my steak get pushed into the dreaded pink zone. I want my steak red but warm in the middle!

But the lid is on before the reverse sear.

Plus, its just something primal to look at the food while it's cooking. Plus I'm a semi-paranoid cook, always thinking it's going to overcook, so I'm better off looking at the meat. Just think when cooking over an open flame was invented, they didn't have lids! Just kidding
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Its hard to beleive that chef/restaurateur Chris Schlesinger and culinary journalist (`Gourmet magazine executive editor) John Willoughby the authors of the book and other very popular BBQ books such as Thrill of the Grill and Licence to Grill are without merit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I didn't say that. I said that their claims are without merit. I have not seen the book but if they in fact said they 'NEVER have the lid on for direct cooking as when fat hits the heat it gives off some unwanted acrid smoke and gets on your food'--and do not support this assertion, preferably with a discussion of how the thousands who grill lid on, including the many other authors who have written recipes specifying such, get away with it--then my criticism stands.

Raichlen says, "You can generally shorten the cooking time by covering the grill" [How to Grill, p.21] and "You can also grill chicken halves using the indirect method. [...] But it lacks the theatrics of direct grilling and so should be avoided at a cookout where you want to show off." [ibid., p.229]

Well, I'm interested in results--I couldn't care less about 'theatrics'--but this sentiment is telling. It lends credence to the notion that the vast majority of cookbooks are written for beginners or novices and, as a result, do not engage the reader in any sort of mental gymnastics that might lead to actual understanding--rather, they preach. It is certainly easier.

In their Grilling 101 pdf, Cook's Illustrated states that, "Charcoal grilling is always done with the the lid off." [emphasis added] Oh, really? This assertion, like the one in the OP, is specious, but which they nevertheless 'support' by simultaneously claiming that the lid shouldn't be used 'every time you grill' and when barbecuing or grill-roasting the 'lid must be used'. They claim that the lid 'may have a buildup of soot and resinous compounds that can impart unwelcome flavors'. Well--duh--they have never thought of cleaning it?

CI and the many books written for beginners/novices would serve their readers better if they actually advanced the knowledge of their readers rather than keeping them intellectually 'locked in' to a novice's mindset. Of course, then, these readers would soon realize that they have no need to buy the materials proffered by these publishers. They'd be beyond all that. Many are, and are well represented here on this board.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bryan S:
Hi, My name is Bryan and I'm a grill lid user.
icon_biggrin.gif

EDIT: I use the lid on both gas and charcoal grills. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I too must confess!

While waiting for a table at higher-end steakhouse, I was observing the cook handling the steaks. The bar seating is right at the grill.
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It was an open grill and the food grate was probably too high to have significant flare-up issues. He did not seem to be moving meat around the grill top as though he was working heat zones. He was, however, jockeying up-side-down roasting pans.

I have found lid use quite integral to the fire/heat control whether grilling indirect or not. When I first started grilling I was afraid of the flames, now it is half the fun. I have heard of this acrid smoke/taste, but I for one have not experienced this. Not to say it isn't there, but experience carries a lot of weight for me.

Q'n, Golf'n & Grill'n.... too many choices!
Gary
 
Totally agree with Kevin. I almost always grill direct with the lid on unless I'm doing something like Roadside chicken where you need to be continuously rotating and flipping the food. When I'm doing steaks I get the grate hot and lubed, put the steaks on, put the lid on, set the timer and don't peak till it goes off.

And that CI rationale about the dirty lid was really good for a belly laugh. OK, so your lid is dirty. Now what? Would they have you continue to use the dirty lid for grilling indirect and would they imagine it wouldn't cause problems there? And how hard is it to clean the lid?

The reality is that many really good chefs are good at many things but not everything. It isn't really surprising that they screw up now and then when writing a cookbook. There's also a very big difference in the frame of reference for those who do most of their work in big restaurant kitchens. Doing 400 steaks in one night in a restaurant is very different than doing 4 steaks in your back yard.
 
That it is.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Would they have you continue to use the dirty lid for grilling indirect and would they imagine it wouldn't cause problems there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> You will likely be as amused at the answer as I:

"When you want to barbecue or grill-roast
for a prolonged period of time, the lid must be used. (The smoky flavor from wood chips or chunks generally masks any off flavor that the lid may impart.)"
 
Ed C. gave me a fantastic book for my B-Day, "Mastering the Grill, The Owner's Manual for Outdoor Cooking" by Andrew Schloss and David Joachim. This book is packed with great information. The authors recommend using the lid when cooking direct. They write the following regarding cooking direct and using a lid, "Closing the grill lid traps heat and smoke, which speeds the cooking and infuses the food with more smoke flavor." They go on to write, "Leave the lid off for thin, small, or very tender foots that cook in less than 5 minutes." Page 36, 01 Direct Grilling.

EDIT: I wanted to ad I highly recommend this book if you're looking for Kevin K. type information. It's packed with it great information on seasonings, scoville units for chile varieties, ph chart for marinades and a life time of great recipes. Tons of great information in this book, highly recommend.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by David Lohrentz:

The reality is that many really good chefs are good at many things but not everything. It isn't really surprising that they screw up now and then when writing a cookbook. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


David,

To emphasize your point, but in a different area of expertise: the purpose of publishers is to make money selling books and magazines, the hook is the information. In the golf instruction world there is one very big gap between the information being published and where the reader is at (even though both parties may think they know). Some of the information is accurate and effective given the right set of circumstances, but a great deal is not. Then if an author is under contract to do multiple books it can get even messier. Now the author is writing out of obligation rather then the desire to send a message. Big difference. Unfortunately, a vicious cycle can ensues for the reader, because the desired result is not being met. Grilling, Q'n, and cooking may be a little more cut and dry, but my book collection tells me, not by much. Good information is often hard to come by. That is why I like this site so much.

Q'n, Golf'n & Grill'n.... too many choices!
Gary
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Joe Dang:
When you see the Weber Restaurant in Chicago I think it's all without the lid I believe. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, they use Ranch Kettles and Kingsford, underneath exhaust hoods. They do use the lids, pretty much all the time. The exhaust vacuum is so strong, it will pull tongues of flame 5-6 inches out the top of the lids, even with a 3 zone fire. Their site WGR says they use multiple kettles, each at diff temps, as hot as 1500F.

Fun place to go when in Chicago/Schaumburg/Lombard area...
 
I actually have the Food Network Unwrapped episode TIVO'd where they visited the restaurant. They use lids for the indirect ranch kettles (where they have coals on either side and no coals in the middle). They also have the direct grilling kettles and they don't put the lid down. Just watched it last nite before deleting it
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