StokerVersital


 

Ken Brown

TVWBB Fan
I've taken my Stoker to a new level. I have assembled an electrical outlet box that is controlled by the stoker via a 5vdc 15a power relay. I cut the stoker fan cable at the fan, then put a female mini-plug on the fan and the male counterpart on the cord. I then put another female mini plug on the outlet box and hooked it to the relay. Now I can control either a plug-in electrical device or the stoker fan. The electrical device I did this for was a SausageMaker 20 lb smokehouse I use to make summer sausages and jerky. Right now, it's working on a load of jerky and is holding the temp at 140 with amazing precision. The Stoker is a very cool device.
jerkycook.jpg
 
This has a lot of possiblities. Controling the fan by way of a outlet would let you use a bunch of fans or guru fans with the direct connect. Electric hot plates for smokers if you desire etc.Would like to see pictures and a parts list.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jim Bloomfield:
This has a lot of possiblities. Controling the fan by way of a outlet would let you use a bunch of fans or guru fans with the direct connect. Electric hot plates for smokers if you desire etc.Would like to see pictures and a parts list. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Parts are pretty basic. You'll need a plastic electrical box, your choice, but don't get a shallow one. Electrical outlet & cover. Power cord 14ga. I used type N connectors from the radio shack, plus a picked up a small predrilled PC board from there as well.

I got the power relay from gigi-key, part number Z2161-ND. I wanted to get one with lugs, but they only had PCB mounts. They have another that is a lot smaller with the same rating, but the PCB mounts are delicate and I broke the first one, so I went with the other and made a quick mount with the Radio shack PCB, cut and trimmed to fit the top.

It's my understanding that Rock will sell you another fan control wire without the fan. That would eliminate the need to do the mini-connectors like I used.

Photo shows box and connector, I also plugged in the light for I could see the cycles.
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E-Box.jpg
 
Nice looking project, and from the graph is looks like it is working perfectly.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ken Brown:
I got the power relay from gigi-key, part number Z2161-ND. I wanted to get one with lugs, but they only had PCB mounts. They have another that is a lot smaller with the same rating, but the PCB mounts are delicate and I broke the first one, so I went with the other and made a quick mount with the Radio shack PCB, cut and trimmed to fit the top.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

One of the problems that can come up in interfacing digital circuits to the real world is with inductive loads (like relays and motors) which can cause spikes on the power and data lines of the driving circuit.

Since the Stoker circuit was intended for driving fans (an inductive load) you will probably not have a problem.

However, if you want to avoid it entirely and gain some other benefits, try a solid state relay. They are a bit more expensive than old style but avoid a lot of problems.

The Digi-Key part 365-1485-ND (OSSRD0002A) is a chassis mount device with lugs (mounts much easier) that provides 4000V isolation from the driving circuit (doesn't fry the Stoker if a big spike occurs on the power line).

It is silent and performs the switching on AC zero crossing. At small loads this doesn't matter, but at higher ones, it avoids a pop on nearby radios and TVs.

If you need higher current, they are available up to 40 amps in the same package. Of course, you would be running 220V at that point on a big electric cooker...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ken Brown:
It's my understanding that Rock will sell you another fan control wire without the fan. That would eliminate the need to do the mini-connectors like I used.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now, that opens up a lot of possibilities for interfacing all kinds of devices!
 
Ken, did you put any kind of protection circuit on the output of the relay (cap+resitor)? If not, it will spark and over time, will short out or not make a good connection....

Great job btw in extending stoker application
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It's been way too long since I studied electronics. Would I need a RC protection on a solid state relay? I thought RC worked only for DC output. I'm way out of the loop. I'd like to continue this, my jerky was great, but I don't want to screw up my Stoker.

Thanks in adcance....
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ken Brown:
It's been way too long since I studied electronics. Would I need a RC protection on a solid state relay? I thought RC worked only for DC output. I'm way out of the loop. I'd like to continue this, my jerky was great, but I don't want to screw up my Stoker. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mechanical relays are subject to some problems on the output contacts, particularly when run at very small fractions of the design current. Above a threshold (say a few percent of design capacity, for your relay this rating is 100ma or about 1.2 watts) the contacts are cleaned by the arc that occurs naturally when a make or break occurs. Thus, the output contacts don't usually require protection to avoid premature failure. Of course, they fail much quicker if run at much more than the design current.

On the input side, you can reduce the kick back into the driving circuit using a snubbing diode (one that absorbs the reverse voltage when the relay de-energized.) Almost any diode with a reverse voltage rating of at least 10 times the operating voltage (say 5*10=50 volts in this case) will help. There are 'better' diodes than the old 1N4002, but they are hard to find off the shelf. A snubbing diode is placed across the low voltage input coil terminals (not the AC output). Diodes normally have a bar printed near one terminal. For this application, you place the bar near the +5V side (away from the ground). Use a volt meter to determine which is which, if you do not already know.

As I indicated in my first post, since the Stoker output fan cable is intended to control an inductive device (a fan motor) it is probably sufficiently protected as shipped. If I knew what device was used, I could look at the specs and tell you, but I have not yet purchased a Stoker, so I can not tell what device is used and if it is adequately protected for driving a relay.

A solid state relay has neither the input issues nor the output issues I have described. Those issues are the ones that solid state relays were designed to fix, and they do a pretty good job. Used as designed, they are an order of magnitude more reliable then their mechanical counterparts.

The take-away is that you are probably fine (you could ask John about the issue or at least what device is used to control the output to the fan).

If you build another of these interfaces or this one fails for some reason or your Stoker starts resetting itself during operation, replacing the relay with a solid state version is probably in order.

One further suggestion: since this is likely to be used outside or around moisture, a GFCI outlet would enhance safety and reduce the likelihood of fatal shocks from the equipment you are powering.
 
That's what I like about this forum, there's always an expert around when you need one. Thanks John and Amir for your solid advice. Since I really don't want to destroy my Stoker, I have ordered the solid state relay from digikey. One question however. You could not see this, but my device is connected to a GFCI, would adding another be considered overkill?

BTW: The device I am running is a 1000 Watt heater element.

Thanks,
Ken
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ken Brown:
... Since I really don't want to destroy my Stoker, I have ordered the solid state relay from digikey.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The risk to the Stoker is pretty small, but it is also pretty cheap to minimize it.

I hope I pointed you to the correct SSR
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ken Brown:
One question however. You could not see this, but my device is connected to a GFCI, would adding another be considered overkill?

BTW: The device I am running is a 1000 Watt heater element.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Another is overkill. As long as you are not traveling with it...
 
The description looked appropriate, 15A load , 4-32 vdc input. Sounds perfect. I had spoken with a salesman at digi-key before I ordered the first relay. I was hoping he knew of one with lug mounts rather than pc board mounts. He pointed me to another solid state relay that was $40 and change. I balked at that and decided to go the PC board route and made my own pcb mount. If I had seen this one, I would have ordered it in the first place. In the meantime, I appreciate your help immensely.

Ken
 
This is awesome! As an avid homebrewer, I'm always looking for cool ways to control my processes. This will work perfectly for controlling fermentation temperatures!
 
Hi Ken,

I was looking at this by your recommendation to my large reverse flow cooker question on the stoker. Forgive me of my ignorance, but what would be the benefit of this setup vs using the stock stoker fan setup?

What size cooker are you using this on?

Thanks for your help!

Jason
 
I think what Ken is saying is that you can use a large CFM fan if you want to. However, I don't think you'll need anything more than what you can get from Rock's. Ken's solution is probably cheaper than that though.

In short, you can indeed use a Stoker on your pit. It will work but you'll have a difference in temp that you normally do anyway. I say go for it!

-rob
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason Hopper:
Hi Ken,

I was looking at this by your recommendation to my large reverse flow cooker question on the stoker. Forgive me of my ignorance, but what would be the benefit of this setup vs using the stock stoker fan setup?

What size cooker are you using this on?

Thanks for your help!

Jason </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm just not sure how much air flow you'd need for such a large cooker. (I looked at the pics.) I know that's Rock does have some big fans, but some require an extra power supply to provide the power needed to run them. I did my gadget to power a static heater on a dehydrator box for for jerky. The same device would run any 120vac electrical device. The benefits, ac motors and fans are less expensive and offer a much greater range of size, power and versatility. Shoot, I could even use mine to make a brooder, imagine that, raising baby chicks with a stoker and later on cooking them using the same device. WOW, is this a great product or what.... add a NC relay and use it for control cooling as well.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ken Brown:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason Hopper:
Hi Ken,

I was looking at this by your recommendation to my large reverse flow cooker question on the stoker. Forgive me of my ignorance, but what would be the benefit of this setup vs using the stock stoker fan setup?

What size cooker are you using this on?

Thanks for your help!

Jason </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm just not sure how much air flow you'd need for such a large cooker. (I looked at the pics.) I know that's Rock does have some big fans, but some require an extra power supply to provide the power needed to run them. I did my gadget to power a static heater on a dehydrator box for for jerky. The same device would run any 120vac electrical device. The benefits, ac motors and fans are less expensive and offer a much greater range of size, power and versatility. Shoot, I could even use mine to make a brooder, imagine that, raising baby chicks with a stoker and later on cooking them using the same device. WOW, is this a great product or what.... add a NC relay and use it for control cooling as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right. That is awesome. You had a great idea. Thanks for the help!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">raising baby chicks with a stoker and later on cooking them using the same device. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LMAO!!
 

 

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